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  1. #1
    Lucius Malfoy's Avatar Pure-Blood
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    Default Deus Vult 2: The Fourth Crusade and the Latin Empire

    This first part is the work of Bastard Feudalism.

    Historical Details
    According to Wikipedia:

    Beginnings:
    "Pope Innocent III succeeded to the papacy in 1198, and the preaching of a new crusade became the prime goal of his pontificate, expounded in his bull Post miserabile. His call was largely ignored by the European monarchs: the Germans were struggling against Papal power, and England and France were still engaged in warfare against each other. However, due to the preaching of Fulk of Neuilly, a crusading army was finally organised at a tournament held at Écry by Count Thibaut of Champagne in 1199. Thibaut was elected leader, but he died in 1201 and was replaced by an Italian count, Boniface of Montferrat.
    Boniface and the other leaders sent envoys to Venice, Genoa, and other city-states to negotiate a contract for transport to Egypt, the object of their crusade; one of the envoys was the future historian Geoffrey of Villehardouin. Earlier crusades focused on Palestine had involved the slow movement of large and disorganised land hosts across a generally hostile Anatolia. An attack on Egypt would clearly be a maritime enterprise, requiring the creation of a fleet. Genoa was uninterested, but in March 1201 negotiations were opened with Venice, which agreed to transport 33,500 crusaders, a very ambitious number. This agreement required a full year of preparation on the part of the Venetians to build numerous ships and train the sailors who would man them, all the while curtailing the city's commercial activities. The crusading army was expected to consist of 4,500 knights (as well as 4,500 horses), 9,000 squires, and 20,000 foot-soldiers.
    The majority of the crusading army that set out from Venice in October 1202 originated from areas within France. It included men from Blois, Champagne, Amiens, Saint-Pol, the Ile-de-France and Burgundy. Several other regions of Europe sent substantial contingents as well, such as Flanders and Montferrat. Other notable groups came from the Holy Roman Empire, including the men under Bishop Martin of the Pairis Abbey and Bishop Conrad of Halberstadt, together in alliance with the Venetian soldiers and sailors led by the doge Enrico Dandolo. The crusade was to be ready to sail on June 24, 1202 and make directly for the Ayyubid capital, Cairo. This agreement was ratified by Pope Innocent, with a solemn ban on attacks on Christian states.

    Zara:
    "As there was no binding agreement among the crusaders that all should sail from Venice, many chose to sail from other ports, particularly Flanders, Marseilles, and Genoa. By 1201 the bulk of the crusader army was collected at Venice, though with far fewer troops than expected: 12,000 instead of 33,500. About 4-5,000 knights and 8,000 foot soldiers showed up. The Venetians had performed their part of the agreement: there lay 50 war galleys and 450 transports—enough for three times the assembled army. The Venetians, under their aged and blind Doge Dandolo, would not let the crusaders leave without paying the full amount agreed to, originally 85,000 silver marks. The crusaders could only initially pay 35,000 silver marks. The Doge threatened to keep them interned unless full payment was made so then a further 14,000 marks was collected, and that only by reducing themselves to extreme poverty. This was disastrous to the Venetians, who had halted their commerce for a great length of time to prepare this expedition. In addition to this about 14,000 men or as many as 20-30,000 men (out of Venice's population of 60-100,000 people) were needed to man the entire fleet, placing further strain on the Venetian economy.Dandolo and the Venetians considered what to do with the crusade. It was too small to pay its fee, but disbanding it would lead to great shame upon Venice, as well as the loss of significant money and trading activities. Following the Massacre of the Latins of Constantinople in 1182, the ruling Angelos dynasty had expelled the Venetian merchant population with the support of the Greek population. These events gave the Venetians a hostile attitude towards Byzantium but it remains unclear if Constantinople was always intended to be the target and the issue remains under fierce debate today. Dandolo, who joined the crusade during a public ceremony in the church of San Marco di Venezia, proposed that the crusaders pay their debts by intimidating many of the local ports and towns down the Adriatic which would culminate in the attack of the port of Zara in Dalmatia. The city had been dominated economically by Venice throughout the 12th century, but had rebelled in 1181 and allied with King Emeric of Hungary and Croatia. Subsequent Venetian attacks were repulsed, and by 1202 the city was economically independent, under the protection of the King.
    The Hungarian king was Catholic and had himself agreed to join the Fourth Crusade (though this was mostly for political reasons, and he had made no actual preparations to leave). Many of the crusaders were opposed to attacking Zara, and some, including a force led by the elder Simon de Montfort, refused to participate altogether and returned home. While the Papal legate to the Crusade, Cardinal Peter of Capua, endorsed the move as necessary to prevent the crusade's complete failure, the Pope was alarmed at this development and wrote a letter to the crusading leadership threatening excommunication.
    In 1202, Pope Innocent III, despite wanting to secure papal authority over Byzantium, forbade the crusaders of Western Christendom from committing any atrocious acts against their Christian neighbours. However, this letter was concealed from the bulk of the army and the attack proceeded. The citizens of Zara made reference to the fact that they were fellow Catholics by hanging banners marked with crosses from their windows and the walls of the city, but nevertheless the city fell after a brief siege. There was extensive pillaging and the Venetians and other crusaders came to blows over the division of the spoils. Order was achieved and the leaders of the expedition agreed to winter in Zara, while considering their next move.
    When Innocent III heard of the sack, he sent a letter to the crusaders excommunicating them, and ordered them to return to their holy vows and head for Jerusalem. Out of fear that this would dissolve the army, the leaders of the crusade decided not to inform their followers of this. In any event, Innocent shortly reconsidered his decision. Regarding the Crusaders as having been blackmailed by the Venetians, he rescinded the excommunications against all non-Venetians in the expedition."


    Diversion to Constantinople:
    "Boniface of Montferrat, meanwhile, had left the fleet before it sailed from Venice, to visit his cousin Philip of Swabia. The reasons for his visit are a matter of debate; he may have realized the Venetians' plans and left to avoid excommunication, or he may have wanted to meet with the Byzantine prince Alexios IV Angelos, Philip's brother-in-law and the son of the recently deposed Byzantine emperor Isaac II Angelos. Alexios IV had recently fled to Philip in 1201 but it is unknown whether or not Boniface knew he was at Philip's court.
    There, Alexios IV offered to pay the entire debt owed to the Venetians, give 200,000 silver marks to the crusaders, 10,000 Byzantine professional troops for the Crusade, the maintenance of 500 knights in the Holy Land, the service of the Byzantine navy to transport the Crusader Army to Egypt and the placement of the Eastern Orthodox Church under the authority of the Pope if they would sail to Byzantium and topple the reigning emperor Alexios III Angelos, brother of Isaac II. It was a tempting offer for an enterprise that was short on funds. Doge Dandolo was a fierce supporter of the plan, however in his earlier capacity as an ambassador to Byzantium and someone who knew the finer details of how Byzantine politics worked, it is likely he knew the promises were false and there was no hope of any Byzantine emperor raising the money promised, let alone raising the troops and giving the church to the Holy See. Count Boniface agreed and Alexios IV returned with the Marquess to rejoin the fleet at Corfu after it had sailed from Zara. Most of the rest of the crusade's leaders, encouraged by bribes from Dandolo, eventually accepted the plan as well. However, there were dissenters; led by Reynold of Montmirail, those who refused to take part in the scheme to attack Christendom's greatest city sailed on to Syria. The remaining fleet of 60 war galleys, 100 horse transports, and 50 large transports (the entire fleet was manned by 10,000 Venetian oarsmen and marines) sailed in late April 1203. In addition, 300 siege engines were brought along on board the fleet. Hearing of their decision, the Pope hedged and issued an order against any more attacks on Christians unless they were actively hindering the Crusader cause, but failed to condemn the scheme outright.
    When the Fourth Crusade arrived at Constantinople, the city had a population of 400,000 people, a garrison of 15,000 men (including 5,000 Varangians), and a fleet of 20 galleys.
    For both political and financial reasons the permanent garrison of Constantinople had been limited to a relatively small force, made up of elite guard and other specialist units. At previous times in Byzantine history when the capital had come under direct threat, it had been possible to assemble reinforcements from frontier and provincial forces. On this occasion the suddenness of the danger posed by the Fourth Crusade put the defenders at a serious disadvantage. The main objective of the crusaders was to place Alexios IV on the Byzantine throne so that they could receive the rich payments he had promised them. Conon of Bethune delivered this ultimatum to the Lombard envoy sent by the Emperor Alexios III Angelos, who was the pretender's uncle and had seized the throne from the pretender's father Isaac II. The citizens of Constantinople were not concerned with the cause of the deposed emperor and his exiled son; hereditary right of succession had never been adopted by the empire and a palace coup between brothers wasn't considered illegitimate in the way it would have been in the West. First the crusaders attacked and were repulsed from the cities of Chalcedon and Chrysopolis, suburbs of the great city. They won a cavalry skirmish in which they were outnumbered, defeating 500 Byzantines with just 80 Frankish knights."



    Pre-Conquest Rules
    The start date is April 12, 1204, before the Sack of Constantinople.

    After losing the Byzantine claimant, Alexios IV Angelos, who they campaigned for, they were denied their promised payment by the new Emperor, Alexios V Doukas.
    Military hostility begins.

    The Crusader army of 5,000 knights and 10,000 infantry (aided by an army of 10,000 Venetian marines) has failed to take Constantinople in early April, losing many siege weapons and becoming daunted by Constantinople's defenses.
    However, the Clergy present in the army convince the crusaders they are only being tested by God and that their cause is just, for the Greeks 'are murderers and traitors.'

    --------------------------------------------------------

    Players may choose many kinds of backgrounds for the characters, anything from the lesser sons of a King to a common knight.
    However, players cannot claim they are indeed kings, counts, dukes, barons, or any other landed title; they may only choose the unlanded family members of such.
    This origin has no mechanical effect on what troops are available to you or how much popularity you have, so do not plan to portray 'a French Prince who everyone likes.'

    The Crusaders of the Fourth Crusade came from many parts of France, especially the north-eastern duchies;
    Others came from Flanders, Savoyard Italy (west of Milan and Genoa), and Germany.
    Venetians and other Lombards became heavily involved with the Crusade as well, making up much of the force that sacked Constantinople.
    However, an origin from anywhere in Western Europe is acceptable.

    --------------------------------------------------------

    After Constantinople is taken, one way or another, the characters elect an emperor from among them, as well as dispersing the spoils of war to other crusaders.
    Positions are taken, and the Clergy characters present are given clerical positions, including a Latin Patriarch.

    The Emperor and the other crusaders must move fast, however, to secure Thrace and Thessalonica, let alone defend against Greek retaliation and Bulgarian invasion.


    Deus Vult II: A Crusader Era RPG
    Forum Structure- "The Golden Horn" - The city of Constantinus and Gate to the East
    - "The Latin Empire" - The homes and domains of the Crusaders
    - "Latinokratia" - Quests and Battles for Glory, both within and without the Empire
    - "The Chronicles of the Fourth Crusade" - Archives



    Moderation Team:
    Head Moderator(s): Lucius Malfoy and Bastard Feudalism
    Junior Moderators:

    Contributors
    - Bastard Feudalism: created the necessary information for the setting as well as a guideline for the pre- and early Latin Empire events/storyline

    Interested Players
    - The Stig
    - Ganbarenippon
    - Honors Bastion
    - Jokern
    - Rafsanjohnny
    - Adamat
    Last edited by Lucius Malfoy; July 25, 2013 at 03:27 PM.
    Gaming Director for the Gaming Staff
    Gaming Director for the Play-by-Post Subforum and the RPG Shed


  2. #2
    Lucius Malfoy's Avatar Pure-Blood
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    Default Re: Deus Vult 2: The Fourth Crusade and the Latin Empire

    These rules are still WIP, but mostly done by now.

    Ranks and Offices Nobility of the Latin Empire
    Emperor (Agnatic-Cognatic Primogeniture Succession, can be changed)
    Prince/Princess
    King (Thessalonica, Max limit of 1)
    Lord/Duke (Number possible and Max Limit: 7)
    Count
    Baron
    Knight

    Clergy of the Latin Empire
    Latin Patriarch of Constantinople (granted to the Archbishop of St. Sophia, max of 1)
    Bishop (max of 4, including Archbishop of St. Sophia)
    Priest

    Ranks of the Order
    Master/Marshal (Max of 2 to 3)
    Knights (Usually drawn from the aristocracy)
    Squires (Most of Low-born heritage)
    Order Monks (Clergy of the Order)

    Ranks/Offices of the Haute Cour
    Bailiff: Administered the empire in the absence or minority of the Emperor (regent position, usually appointed to a noble upon the departure of the King for war or when the King is incapacitated/a minor)
    Constable: Commander of the empire's armies
    Seneschal: Managed royal funds, incomes and taxes as well as oversaw the Haure Cour in the absence of the Emperor
    Chancellor: Draws up deeds and charters and managed the empire's diplomatic service
    Order Masters/Marshals: Leaders of the Orders stationed in Frankish-occupied lands of Greece
    Latin Patriarch: Archbishop of Saint Sophia and head of the Church dioceses in the Empire


    Starting Territories and Titles
    Latin Empire of Constantinople (Secular)

    Main title: Emperor of the Latin Empire
    Secondary titles: Count of Thrace
    Levy information: 5,000 (Imperial City) and 1,250 (Count title)

    Lordship of Naxos/Aegean Islands (Secular)

    Main title: Duke of Naxos
    Secondary titles: Count of Euboia and Barony of Oreoi
    Levy information: 2,000 (Ducal title) and 1,250 (Count title)

    Lordship of Philippolis (Secular)

    Main title: Duke of Philippolis
    Secondary titles: Count of Adrianople and Barony of Skalothe
    Levy information: 2,000 (Ducal title) and 1,250 (Count title)

    Archbishopric of Saint Sophia (Ecclesiastical, Constantinople)

    Titles: Latin Patriarch and Archbishop of Constantinople
    Secondary titles: N/A
    Levy information: 500

    Bishopric of Saint Demetrius (Ecclesiastical, Adrianople)

    Titles: Bishop of Adrianople
    Secondary titles: N/A
    Levy information: 500


    Secondary Titles are titles that can be granted to vassals or heirs of the primary holder. These titles are encouraged to be granted to players who seek to become vassals of a region or to members of the family, whether they are played by another player or written by the primary holder.


    Playable Lands Levy Size and Composition
    ~Titles may be acquired by being given titles by one who holds a higher feudal rank granting it to you. The King may grant or rescind titles, and lesser lords may only grant titles they hold themselves. Ecclesiastical leaders may not grant secular titles outside of lands they control~

    The Unit List part will be updated with prices and stats soon. Volunteers would be appreciated.
    Western Unit List

    Crusader State Military

    Light
    Armed Pilgrims
    Sergeant Spearmen
    Venetian Crossbowmen
    Levy Archers
    Light Cavalry

    Medium
    Frankish Men-at-Arms
    Armoured Sergeants
    Frankish Crossbowmen
    Frankish Archers

    Heavy
    Dismounted Frankish Knights
    Mounted Frankish Knights


    Order Militaries

    Note: In order to acquire units from a Monastic Military Order, the Emperor must first accept support from any of the three current Military Orders (Templars, Hospitallers or Teutonics). Once they have this support, chapters may be allowed to be built by clergy characters and be open for hire by the nobility. They will prove to be rather expensive in both purchase and upkeep as well as low in number, but they are very elite troops nonetheless.
    Units: Listed from basic to heavy
    Squires of the Order
    Sergeant Spearmen of the Order
    Armoured Sergeants of the Order
    Order Crossbowmen/Archers
    Dismounted Order Knights
    Mounted Order Knights


    Greek Units

    Note: Greek Units will become available for levies once the population becomes loyal to their new lieges and/or becomes converted. As time goes on, however, some Greek units may become available for hire depending upon conversion rates. As in the beginning, any Greek units hired will have a tendency of attempting rebellions or deserting armies. Conversion rates help ensure their loyalty as they join Western Christendom.
    Units: Listed from basic (Top) to heavy (bottom)
    Contaratoi (militia)
    Greek peltasts
    Koursores (light cavalry)
    Thematic Archers
    Scoutatoi Spearmen
    Scoutatoi Swordsmen
    Toxotae (professional archers)



    Additional Levy and Income Information

    As the Latin Empire, we start off with three ducal titles (Thrace (Emperor's title), Naxos and Philippolis) and many other minor titles including baronies, counties and bishoprics. As wars and diplomacy go on, we will be winning and losing territories, shaping the Empire as the years go on.

    Here is a guideline to the information on when new territories are captured/acquired and what they will have at their disposal

    Levy Information (Max levies available)Lordship Levies: 2,000 troops
    550 Frankish Men-at-Arms
    550 Armoured Sergeants
    250 Venetian Crossbowmen
    350 Dismounted Frankish Knights
    300 Mounted Frankish Knights

    County levy: 1,250
    350 Frankish Men-at-Arms
    350 Armoured Sergeants
    200 Venetian Crossbowmen
    250 Dismounted Frankish Knights
    100 Mounted Frankish Knights

    Bishopric/Barony levy: 500
    150 Frankish Men-at-Arms
    150 Armoured Sergeants
    100 Venetian Crossbowmen
    50 Dismounted Frankish Knights
    50 Mounted Frankish Knights

    Land Income Information (Ducats Yearly):
    Baronies = 10,000
    Bishoprics = 15,000 - 25,000 Ducats yearly (determined by roll once captured)
    Counties = 15,000
    Lordships = 20,000 Ducats

    Land Income Exceptions (Special territories):
    Latin Patriarch/Archbisphopric of Saint Sophia = 30,000
    Imperial City = 35,000


    Imperial City of Constantinople - 5,000

    1,250 Dismounted Frankish Knights
    775 Mounted Frankish Knights
    1,250 Frankish Men-at-Arms
    1,250 Armoured Sergeants
    500 Genoese Crossbowmen

    Lordship of Philippolis - 2,000

    550 Frankish Men-at-Arms
    550 Armoured Sergeants
    250 Genoese Crossbowmen
    350 Dismounted Frankish Knights
    300 Mounted Frankish Knights

    Lordship of Naxos - 2,000

    550 Frankish Men-at-Arms
    550 Armoured Sergeants
    250 Genoese Crossbowmen
    350 Dismounted Frankish Knights
    300 Mounted Frankish Knights

    Latin Patriarch of Constantinople - 500

    150 Frankish Men-at-Arms
    150 Armoured Sergeants
    100 Venetian Crossbowmen
    50 Dismounted Frankish Knights
    50 Mounted Frankish Knights

    County of Thrace- 1,250

    350 Frankish Men-at-Arms
    350 Armoured Sergeants
    200 Venetian Crossbowmen
    250 Dismounted Frankish Knights
    100 Mounted Frankish Knights

    County of Euboia- 1,250

    350 Frankish Men-at-Arms
    350 Armoured Sergeants
    200 Venetian Crossbowmen
    250 Dismounted Frankish Knights
    100 Mounted Frankish Knights

    County of Adrianople- 1,250

    350 Frankish Men-at-Arms
    350 Armoured Sergeants
    200 Venetian Crossbowmen
    250 Dismounted Frankish Knights
    100 Mounted Frankish Knights

    Bishopric of St Demetrius (Adrianople)- 500

    150 Frankish Men-at-Arms
    150 Armoured Sergeants
    100 Venetian Crossbowmen
    50 Dismounted Frankish Knights
    50 Mounted Frankish Knights

    Barony of Skalothe - 500

    150 Frankish Men-at-Arms
    150 Armoured Sergeants
    100 Venetian Crossbowmen
    50 Dismounted Frankish Knights
    50 Mounted Frankish Knights

    Barony of Oreoi - 500

    150 Frankish Men-at-Arms
    150 Armoured Sergeants
    100 Venetian Crossbowmen
    50 Dismounted Frankish Knights
    50 Mounted Frankish Knights



    Playable Lands Tax Revenue and Character Income
    Emperor: 5,000 Ducats
    King: 4,500 Ducats
    Dukes: 4,000 Ducats
    Counts: 3,000 Ducats
    Barons: 2,500 Ducats
    Knight: 2,500 Ducats

    Archbishop: 7,500 Ducats
    Bishop: 5,000 Ducats
    Priest: 2,000 Ducats
    Order Leader: 2,500 Ducats
    Order Member: 1,500 Ducats
    Starting Territories
    Imperial City of Constantinople (Emperor)

    35,000 Ducats

    Lordship of Phillipolis (Secular)

    20,000 Ducats

    Archbishopric of Saint Sophia (Latin Patriarch)

    30,000 Ducats

    Bishopric of Saint Demetrius (Ecclesiastical, Adrianople)

    20,000 Ducats

    Lordship of Naxos (Secular)

    20,000 Ducats

    Count of Euboia (Secular)

    15,000 Ducats

    Count of Adrianople (Secular)

    15,000 Ducats

    Barony of Oreoi (Secular)

    10,000 Ducats

    Barony of Skalothe (Secular)

    10,000 Ducats



    Economy
    Demesne Upgrades

    ~No Limitations~

    Castles
    grant the title of Baron as well as an additional levy of 500 men, following the castle levy composition depending upon secular or ecclesiastical affiliation. Building a castle grants +2 to siege defense rolls: 50,000 Ducats (Non-stackable)

    Naturally occurring Wells can be dug for in a castle, which provides a +1 siege defense roll if found (25% chance): 5,000 Ducats (Stackable, but expire after five years)

    Murder Holes provide a castle with considerable defense and +1 to siege rolls: 15,000 Ducats (Non-stackable)

    Reinforced Gates provide a castle with considerable defense and +2 to siege rolls: 30,000 Ducats (Non-stackable)

    An Armory allows a 5% addition to all light infantry types within a province: 12,000 Ducats (Non-stackable)

    A Weapons Manufacturer allows a 5% increase to all heavy unit types: 12,000 Ducats (Non-Stackable)

    A Stable allows a 5% addition to all cavalry levies within a province: 20,000 Ducats (Non-Stackable)

    A Chapel converts the populace to Christianity at a rate of 2% per year: 10,000 Ducats (Stackable)

    A Cathedral converts the populace to Christianity at a rate of 4% per year: 15,000 Ducats (Stackable)

    A Holy Shrine converts the populace to Christianity at a rate of 4% per year and generates a site that pilgrims find attractive. It generates 50 Armed Pilgrims annually: 18,000 Ducats (Stackable)

    Cells not only provide a place to house inmates, but decreases their chances of escape providing -2 to escape rolls: 10,000 Ducats (Non-stackable)

    ~Secular Only~

    A Mercenary Guild allows for the recruitment of mercenaries and mercenary captains. Mercenary captains gain +1 battle rolls: 15,000 Ducats.

    Money Lending Services, although officially condemned by the Church, can be exploited using loopholes. They generate +10% to total annual income. The population does not consider you very Christian and deconverts at 3% per year: 5,000 Ducats.

    ~Ecclesiastical Only~

    These buildings do not stack, but multiple buildings of the same type may be purchased.
    Chapter Outposts provides a total of 100 chapter soldiers (50 light infantry, 25 medium infantry, 25 heavy infantry): 10,000 Ducats.

    A Minor Chapter House provides a total of 200 chapter soldiers (50 light infantry, 50 medium infantry, 50 heavy infantry, 50 heavy cavalry): 25,000 Ducats.

    Chapter Headquarters
    provide 500 Chapter Soldiers (100 light infantry, 250 medium infantry, 250 heavy infantry, 150 heavy cavalry): 50,000 Ducats.

    Chapter Castles provide 1,000 Chapter Soldiers (200 light infantry, 500 medium infantry, 500 heavy infantry, 300 heavy cavalry: 100,000 Ducats.
    Personal Items

    ~No Class Limitations~
    +1 weapon: 3,000 Ducats
    +2 weapon: 6,000 Ducats
    +3 weapon: 9,000 Ducats
    +4 weapon: 12,000 Ducats
    +5 weapon: 15,000 Ducats

    +1 armor: 3,000 Ducats
    +2 Armor: 6,000 Ducats
    +3 armor: 9,000 Ducats
    +4 armor: 12,000 Ducats
    +5 armor: 15,000 Ducats

    ~Ecclesiastical Only~

    Relics, whether real or not, have an inspiring effect on people and help convert +2% of the population annually: 7,000 Ducats

    Piece of the True Cross: 10,000 Ducats

    ~Secular Only~

    Assassins may help take care of a problem. +5 to assassin rolls: 30,000 Ducats

    Knife adds +1 to assassin rolls: 5,000 Ducats

    Golden Cross: 20,000 Ducats

    Golden Cross + True Piece of the Cross yeilds Battlefield Cross, which gives +1 to battle rolls in an army where it is present.



    NPC Nations
    The Byzantine Empire/Empire of Nicaea

    The Orthodox empire of the Byzantines, the cultural successors of the mighty Roman Empire. The Byzantines have a hostile relationship with the Crusaders due to the recent Fourth Crusade

    Leader: Constantine Lasakris (1204 - 1205)
    Designated Successor: Theodore Lasakris
    Family: None

    Despotate of Epirus

    A far Western successor state of the Byzantine Empire. Currently the Despotate has guarded relations with the Latin newcomers to the Balkans

    Ruler: Michael I Komnenus Doukas (1205 - 1215)
    Designated Successor: Theodore I Komnenus Doukas
    Family: 1 son and two daughters

    Second Tsardom of Bulgaria

    A resurgent Second Empire of Bulgaria that was recently formed due to a series of incompetent emperors of the Angeloid Dynasty that resided in Constantinople after the fall of the Komnenid Dynasty. The Bulgarian Empire is currently neutral with the Latin Empire

    Ruler: Ivan II/Kaloyan (1197 - 1207)
    Designated Successor: Boril of Bulgaria
    Family: 1 daughter

    Seljuk Sultanate of Rum

    A successor state of the Great Seljuk Empire after the Battle of Manzikert that was formed by a contender and claimant of the Seljuk throne. The current relations of the Sultanate and the Latins is neutral

    Ruler: Kilij Arslan III (1204 - 1205)
    Designated Successor: None
    Family: None

    Empire of Trebizond

    The Empire was formed from the Theme of Trebizond by the remnants of the Komnenus family, later renamed the Megas Komnenus. Currently it holds neutral relations with the Latin Empire

    Ruler: Alexios I Megas Komnenus (1204 - 1222)
    Designated Successor: Andronikis I Gidus
    Family: 2 sons (John I and Manuel I) and 1 daughter

    Republic Venice and Her Greek Colonies

    The Most Serene Republic of Venice is a dominant republic within the Asiatic Sea and around the Italian Peninsula. Due to the Fourth Crusade, their power has significantly grown as well as their territories in the Eastern Mediterranean. Their relations with the Latin Empire are friendly ties.

    Ruler: Enrico Dandolo (1107 - 1205)
    Designated Successor: Pietro Ziani

    Kingdom of Serbia

    A neighboring state of Bulgaria that is a part of a number of successor states to the Byzantine Empire. Due to its far proximity to the Latin Empire, it holds neutral relations with the Latins.
    Note: Stefan is a Serbian honorific name adopted for this particular dynasty which derives from the Greek word, Stephanos which means 'Crown'

    Ruler: Stefan Nemanjić (1196 - 1228)
    Designated Successor: Stefan Radoslav
    Family: 4 sons (Radoslav, Vladislav I and Uroš I) and 1 daughter

    Kingdom of Cyprus

    The Kingdom of Cyprus is an island kingdom that neighbors the Holy Lands. Formed from Guy I, it has remained in close ties to the Kingdom of Jerusalem. They hold friendly ties with the Empire

    Ruler: Amalric of Lusignan, King of Cyprus (1194 - 1205) and Jerusalem (1195 - 1205)
    Designated Successor: Hugh I of Cyprus
    Family: 4 sons and 5 daughters


    Battles, Assassinations, Spying, Scouting, Duels and Raiding
    Battles


    Battles will commence in the following way:

    When two armies come face to face across the field of battle, both armies will be divided into three parts, the left, center, and right. For each section of the army, generals will send in strategies of attack or defense to the battle moderator. Once all of these orders have been sent, read, and understood, moderators may form the basis for how the engagement will be carried out. Generals may be as creative as they want in their strategies, but should contain only realistic directives.

    In the event that an army consists of multiple commanders, the overall highest ranking nobleman will have the highest authority in the army, but lesser lords or knights do not necessarily have to follow the orders they are given.

    Once orders have been given, a system of rolls will determine the overall effectiveness of each action. A D20 roll will determine effectiveness. The lower the number rolled, the less successful the action. To use a simple example, if two bodies of massed infantry simply charge into one another, and Body A rolls a 15 while Body B rolls a 5, Body A's charge is considered more devastating by a factor of 2. Casualties should be noted accordingly.

    However, modifiers will exist based on the traits, terrain, situations, or any extra factors moderators deem appropriate. In fact, modifiers should be added in our revised example event. Suppose Body A is composed of heavy infantry, while Body B consists of light infantry. The charge effectiveness of heavy infantry should give them a considerable advantage against light infantry.


    Sieges

    Siege Equipment costs no money, but takes some time to construct.

    Ladders/Rams = 1 day
    Towers/Ballista = 2 days

    Any territory or land without a castle specifically within it cannot upgrade defenses, but is assumed to have a single walled tower which grants a +1 siege defense roll. This tower only has enough provisions to last for a single year before starving out.

    When a leader participates in battle, rolls will take place.

    Killed In Action – 1-2/20 (if a 1 is rolled your character is killed and a 2 is mortally wounded)
    Wounded - 3-7/20 (there will be a further roll to see what type of wound)
    Captured - 8-12/20 (you are captured by the other side and must be ransomed or escape)
    Free - 13-20/20 (you get through the battle without being captured or wounded)

    - Wounded
    If it is rolled and you are wounded during a battle there shall be another roll under this category to see where the wound is. This roll will only give you a general area, after that it is up to you to RP it.

    Head wound - 1-5/20 (you have taken some sort of wound to the face or head)
    Arm wound - 6-10/20 (you have taken some sort of wound to the arms or hands)
    Leg wound - 11-15/20 (you have taken some sort of wound to the legs or feet)
    Torso wound - 16-20/20 (you have taken some sot of wound to the back, stomach, chest area.)

    In the event that the overall leader in command, or one of the section commanders is killed, a negative modifier may be added to the army/army section who losses a commander. The size of the modifier will be determined by moderator discretion. A more central, militarily accomplished character will be more of a loss and blow to morale than an incompetent commander.

    - Pillage and Loot
    Castles and Cities are delegated by the moderation team as one of four different types of settlement.

    Village: A small village or town with no walls. No Pillage.

    Minor settlement: A small town surrounded by a pallisade including a small garrison (usually with a maximum of 2+ fortifications). Capturing this settlement yields D20 x 1000 Ducats, to be distributed by the King or Campaign leader

    Minor City: A Large town surrounded by a stone wall, keep and moat, including a large Garrsion (usually with a minimun of 4+ fortifications) Capturing this settlement yields D20 x 5000 Ducats, to be distributed by the King or Campaign leader.

    Capital City: A very large and extensively fortified city, with an equally large Garrison (8+ fortifications) Capturing this settlement yields D20 x 10000 Ducats, to be distributed by the King or Campaign leade

    Duels

    Duels may be conducted between individuals or groups of individuals.

    Two factors are considered in duels, defensive and offensive ratings. On a basic level, age and experience affects fighting ability. The base stats are as follows:

    20-29 years old: 6 offense, 6 defense
    30-39 years old: 7 offense, 7 defense
    40-50 years old: 5 offense, 5 defense
    55+: 4 offense, 4 defense

    Additional factors such as weapons and armor are also taken into consideration. NPC leaders will receive random rolls to determine their extra modifiers. General wealth and resources of each nation will impact these rolls by modifiers.

    The largest defensive rating any individual can hold is 13, and the largest offensive rating is 13. A random number range of 1-13 (or whatever designated offensive or defensive rating) will occur. Whenever the offensive rating exceeds the defensive rating, a chance for death or injury occurs. This chance is contingent upon the discrepancy. If the difference in the numbers is over 5, there is a 50% chance of death. If the difference is over 7, there is a 70% chance of death. If the difference is over 9, there is a 90% chance of death. Anything under 5 is a guaranteed injury, the gravity of which will depend on the difference between the numbers. Ratings may be temporarily or permanently reduced based on injury

    Raiding

    Raiding is simple and works as follows.

    1. First a detection roll is made to see what resistance(if any) the raiders will face
    2. The raiders face the resistance(if any is rolled) on the battle field
    3. If the resistance is beaten(or no resistance was faced) a second roll is made(d20) and multiplied by the set modifier for that region, and that number is what the raiders make off with(that number is also deducted from the regions income for that turn)

    Raid rolls
    1-5: The target turns out to be undefended. (5/20 chance)
    6-10: Raid runs into some trouble and despite initial success, the guards are able to organize a militia and prepare to do their best against the raiders while the local lord's response will still be too slow. 1d20*100 Light Infantry + 1d6*100 Archers will mobilize to oppose the raiders. (6-12/20 chance)
    10-18: Raid is substantially opposed initially, but perhaps more pressing is the fact that the merchants identified you and it is know known who conducted the raids. Initially, however, 1d20*100 Light Infantry + 1d6*100 Archers will mobilize to oppose the raiders. (13-17/20 chance)
    18-20: Raid gets spotted well beforehand, the local Sultan is able to mobilize the province's strength and oppose the raiders on landing. (18/20 chance)

    Scouting

    Scouting:
    When scouting is requested, the mods do one D20 roll with the following possible results:

    1-4/20 - Scouts captured by the enemy -The scouts are captured and may now be tortured for information.
    5-10/20 - Scouts fail to return with any information
    11-12/20 - Scouts return with 20% accurate range - Mods post back a wide range of possible army numbers (20% accuracy)
    13-14/20 - Scouts return with 40% accurate range - Mods post back a narrower range of possible army numbers (40% accuracy)
    15-16/20 - Scouts return with 60% accurate range - Mods post back a small range of possible army numbers (60% accuracy)
    17-18/20 - Scouts return with 80% accurate range - Mods post back a ting range of possible army numbers (80% accuracy)
    19-20/20 - Scouts return with exact enemy numbers

    When posting back results, mods do not post the actual roll they performed just the random range of numbers based on the accuracy of said roll outcome. When deciding the range, mods simply take the actual troop numbers x inaccuracy (opposite of accuracy) which will give them their interval, which they can apply into a range any way they like (as long as the actual army numbers fall within the range).

    For example: The interval of 20% accuracy on 1000 troops is worked by 1000x0.8=800, thus the range is 800 wide. Now the mod can post back any range of 800 hundred that they like as long as 1000 is within that range. For example 800-1600 range, or 950-1750 or even 1000-1800.

    Spying

    Assassins may be hired to do more than just kill.

    Assassin: 5,000 Ducats
    Skilled Assassin (+1 to rolls): 7,500 Ducats
    Master Assassin (+2 to rolls): 10,000 Ducats

    To spy, a player must PM a moderator explaining which spy the are hiring, and which thread they wish to target. The mod will then perform the rolls, and depending on the result disclose a certain amount of information on any 'secrets' the thread may contain. This allows previously OOC only knowledge to become IC knowledge.

    1-5 - The spy is captured and may be tortured for information.
    6-7 - The spy fails to gain any information, though remains undetected.
    8-10 - The spy happens upon a small amount of information, revealing the brief outline of a hidden plan.
    11-15 The spy happens upon a medium amount of information, revealing some details of a hidden plan.
    16-19 The spy happens upon a large amount of information, revealing an in depth plan.
    20 - The spy happens upon the jackpot, revealing all aspects of a hidden plan.

    Assassinations

    Anonymous Assassination
    1. Pick your target
    2. Be sure to have a good reason for the assassination. This reason must be relevant and not OOC based. Moderators reserve the right to reject any assassination request if there is no valid reason that you wish to kill the target.
    3. PM a moderator stating: The Reason, The Location, The Target and the Items you wish to use. Any character traits aiding assassinations should also be detailed.
    4. The mod will post the rest, detailing the attempt, whether it succeeded or failed (and if so, whether you got captured). Your identity will not be released.
    5. The time stamp of the PM will freeze the moment in time. If a character leaves the thread after a moderator responds to the assassination request, it still applies retroactively.


    Open Assassination
    1. Pick your target and get in the same thread as them
    2. Post requesting an assassination on your target. Ensure you post what equipment and traits regarding assassinations you have.
    3. If possible and time permits, notify a moderator with your reason for the assassination.
    4. The mod will post the rest (success/failure, whether escaped)
    5. The time stamp of the PM will freeze the moment in time. If a character leaves the thread after a moderator responds to the assassination request, it still applies retroactively.


    Secret Open Assassination
    1. Pick your target and get in the same thread as them. They must acknowledge that they are alone.
    2. From here, follow standard open assassination steps.
    3. If possible and time permits, notify a moderator with your reason for the assassination.
    4. A mod will post the result. If successful, you are free to leave. If not, an escape roll is done, in this case a simple 10/20.
    5. The time stamp of the PM will freeze the moment in time. If a character leaves the thread after a moderator responds to the assassination request, it still applies retroactively.

    The Rolls and Chances
    Depending on your rank and location, the chances of being assassinated differ. Below, players are split into either Noble or Yoeman. A noble here is defined as anyone who holds an official title.
    A yoeman is any man who isn't one of the above ranks.

    At your Home (the thread you use to receive visitors)
    Nobles: 2/20
    Yoemen: 5/20

    In a neutral house (any other home thread except yours and the assassins)
    Nobles: 4/20
    Yoemen: 8/20

    In the assassins home (the thread he uses to receive visitors)
    Nobles: 15/20
    Yoemen: 17/20

    Any other indoor situation (ie a RP that takes place inside, like a wedding)
    Both: 10/20

    An outside situation
    Both: 13/20



    Character & Misc Rules
    Character Rules

    Players may play as two characters, but only one may hold a noble title.

    Death rolls begin at age 50 at 4/20 chance with a +1 modifier each year thereafter

    Clergy Rules

    Clergy have special abilities as it pertains to the governance of Christendom. Priests may issue a writ of denouncement the actions of any man holding a rank below count for unchristian behavior. Bishops and above may issue a writ of denouncement and excommunicate any ranked characters. If the targeted player does not recant, conversion within his lands will come to a halt, and the existing population will begin to chafe under the rule of a man outside the church. An Archbishop or bishop may also impose an interdict on a land, in which all priests will cease performing the sacraments. A roll occurs initially at excommunication or interdiction, and then once every year afterwards. The results are as follows:

    No matter what, all conversion ceases.

    Excommunication/Interdiction d/6:
    1: No affect
    2. Levy decreases by 25%
    3. Levy decreases by 50%
    4. Peasant Revolt D20x100 peasants
    5. Peasant Rebellion D20x200
    6. Levy refuses to fight.

    The clergy are forbidden to hire mercenaries.

    Conversions

    The population of a province may be converted by the presence of religious buildings and preaching in the province by a member of the clergy.

    Conversions to Christianity bring certain benefits to the Lord of a christian population. All lands convert to Islam at 2% per year wherever no conversion otherwise occurs.

    0% =Attrition rolls whenever Christian army is present from 1-20%
    5% = Taxes reduced by 25%
    7% = Taxes reduced by 15%
    10% = Orderhouses may be built, taxes no longer penalized
    15% = pilgrims may choose your lands as a pilgrimage point, adding either available soldiers or a lump sum of money
    20% = Gain title "The Holy"
    30% = Eastern levy units become available, adding 5% of your total levy in mixed eastern light infantry.
    40% = A single building costs 1/2 regular price due to pilgrims willing to work as absolution
    50% = Gain title "The Pious"
    75% = Gain title "The Faithful"

    Holy Orders

    Order Rules
    In this time period, there were several Orders dedicated to assisting the Crusaders and protecting the Pilgrims in the Holy Land. These Orders became incredibly powerful, and some lasted as sovereign states until the last century. However at the beginning of Deus Vult there is only one major Order, the Military and Hospitaller Order of St John of Jerusalem. However as the game proceeds, other Orders may appear as a result of simply the time, or as a result of major RP within the game. This will be at the discretion of the moderators.

    Creation
    Whilst the Moderators grant most control of the game to in-game roleplay, the creation of a New Order must be approved by the Moderators before hand, this should be done before approval is sought from the King in game. It is unlikely that more than 2 to 3 Orders will be allowed to exist at any one time, for balance reasons.

    At this point, the Templars, Hospitallers and Teutonic Knights are ready to establish their presence in Greece and aid the struggle of the Franks against their neighbors. Players must contact their Grandmasters in order to gain their support, though characters aligned with these orders are still allowed to be played even if the chapters do not exist within the Frankish-occupied lands of Greece.

    Governance
    Those who run Orders are expected to keep them active, due to the high activity they would have had during the time. Should an Order not be running properly due to the Master, he could be removed byt the Moderators acting as Pope, however it shall be left to the players to try and solve it in roleplay first. However should an Order itself be totally inactive, it could be replaced or remove in game with approval of the moderators. Ultimately the Grand Master is King of the Order, and may be absolute in his rulings, this could result in interesting RP Consequences however.

    Income and Tithes
    Members of Orders at this time were basically comparable to modern monks, they took vows and were expected to live a very Christian lifestyle. As a result, any player who is a member of an Order is required to give at least 20% of his income to the Order he is a member of, however this could be increased by the Grand Master in the game. Donations are also encouraged from nobles, as it will allow Orders to play a fundamental role in the game beyond simple roleplay.

    Characters
    All players may have at most one auxiliary character who can be an Order member, they can take income but it is given only when required for items by the Grand Master. Any auxiliary character may not rise beyond Grand Commander (or Equivalent).

    Characters may also be allowed to be related to ruling houses within Western Christendom. However, say you are related to the ruling family of the Holy Roman Empire, we ask that you must be indirectly related to them as a cousin branch or distant relative. While this Crusade is composed mostly of Franks, Germans and Italians, all cultures that follow the Western Church of Christendom (such as English, Scottish, Danish, etc etc) and welcomed to be made.

    When creating your character, give some thought to the situation. There isn't going to be a Knight in any of the Orders who aren't a part of Western Christendom (so no Bulgarians or Greeks unless converted) and they are likely to have noble heritage or else success in the Order is largely curtailed. Also remember the members of Orders, they are very Christian, however you could have some interesting roleplay differing from this considerably.



    Last edited by Lucius Malfoy; July 25, 2013 at 01:54 AM.
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  3. #3
    Lucius Malfoy's Avatar Pure-Blood
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    Default Re: Deus Vult 2: The Fourth Crusade and the Latin Empire

    Now to start off with a few questions:
    1. Should we make the Emperor of the Latin Empire an elective title (similar to the Holy Roman Empire; everyone gets a chance to be Emperor) or primogeniture (one player always be the Emperor)?
    2. With a max limit of 1 (and only 1), should we allow a Kingdom title to be available (which would be Thessalonica) or not?
    3. Should Secondary Titles description (see above) remain as it is or be changed?

    Will update with more questions as times go on.

    Now discuss!

    Edit: I would also like to encourage people to form families/houses together. So if a bunch of people are Franks and wanna show be related, they can band together to be one surname and have different relations with the main character of that house. Seeing as Baldwin I of the Latin Empire had much of his family follow him to the Balkans. This can help form powerbases for intrigue and what not.
    Last edited by Lucius Malfoy; July 20, 2013 at 03:42 PM.
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  4. #4
    Ganbarenippon's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: Deus Vult 2: The Fourth Crusade and the Latin Empire

    Quote Originally Posted by Lucius Malfoy View Post
    Now to start off with a few questions:
    1. Should we make the Emperor of the Latin Empire an elective title (similar to the Holy Roman Empire; everyone gets a chance to be Emperor) or primogeniture (one player always be the Emperor)?
    2. With a max limit of 1 (and only 1), should we allow a Kingdom title to be available (which would be Thessalonica) or not?
    3. Should Secondary Titles description (see above) remain as it is or be changed?

    Will update with more questions as times go on.

    Now discuss!

    Edit: I would also like to encourage people to form families/houses together. So if a bunch of people are Franks and wanna show be related, they can band together to be one surname and have different relations with the main character of that house. Seeing as Baldwin I of the Latin Empire had much of his family follow him to the Balkans. This can help form powerbases for intrigue and what not.
    Just my opinions but:

    1. I would go with Primogeniture to start. The system can always change later, but at least at the start we need some stability until we can get the game up and running.

    2. Why not? Perhaps later on there would be other (ahistorical) Kingships available. It would set a precedent that might become really interesting later on. The current system gives the Emperor something of a counterweight to his West. This can only be good.

    3. I would change them, especially if you want to encourage families etc. Perhaps assign a County and a few Baronies to each Ducal title and use those for family members and newer vassals rather than having them held by the Duke? These can be courtesy titles but would make things interesting. Another thought, perhaps there can be certain titles that can be assigned that give a bonus e.g. Defender of the Faith? Though I'm not really sure about this TBH.
    EDIT: Forget this last part, that seems to be covered in the conversion rate section.

    I'd be interested in playing as a member of somebody's family. I would also have no problem with playing a blood-and-thunder Bishop.

    Questions:
    1. Will priests be able to increase conversion in their region/gain support or followers (wither for themselves or the chosen subject of their sermon) through effective preaching?
    2. How would it be decided whether a province, when conquered, would be ecclesiastical or secular?
    Last edited by Ganbarenippon; July 21, 2013 at 08:26 AM.

  5. #5
    Lucius Malfoy's Avatar Pure-Blood
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    Default Re: Deus Vult 2: The Fourth Crusade and the Latin Empire

    Quote Originally Posted by Ganbarenippon View Post
    Just my opinions but:

    1. I would go with Primogeniture to start. The system can always change later, but at least at the start we need some stability until we can get the game up and running.

    2. Why not? Perhaps later on there would be other (ahistorical) Kingships available. It would set a precedent that might become really interesting later on. The current system gives the Emperor something of a counterweight to his West. This can only be good.

    3. I would change them, especially if you want to encourage families etc. Perhaps assign a County and a few Baronies to each Ducal title and use those for family members and newer vassals rather than having them held by the Duke? These can be courtesy titles but would make things interesting. Another thought, perhaps there can be certain titles that can be assigned that give a bonus e.g. Defender of the Faith? Though I'm not really sure about this TBH.
    EDIT: Forget this last part, that seems to be covered in the conversion rate section.

    I'd be interested in playing as a member of somebody's family. I would also have no problem with playing a blood-and-thunder Bishop.

    Questions:
    1. Will priests be able to increase conversion in their region/gain support or followers (wither for themselves or the chosen subject of their sermon) through effective preaching?
    2. How would it be decided whether a province, when conquered, would be ecclesiastical or secular?
    For question two, it might be best to actually keep Kingships at a minimal. The Latin Empire is very very small compared to most other nations at this time. At most, we could have like a max of 2 kingdoms, but I would rather it remain 1 possible Kingship that must be won through effective roleplay and storyline as well as achieving great services to the Empire, not 'oh hey Emperor, I have all this territory in Thessalonica, can I have the Kingship?' Maybe if the Empire is successful enough and takes greater amounts of land that more Kingships could be offered

    For question three, I like your idea, Ganb. I will definitely change it to that. I am already working to select a couple baronies for each Lordship.

    Answers for your questions:
    1. Yes, we would encourage preaching and roll a percentage for conversion. It would be minor, but it still helps with conversion. I may make it where a sermon can either be effective, a failure or do nothing.
    2. For the most part, all provinces are secular. Basically say if a landless priest moves into the area or perhaps someone like the Emperor or Latin Patriarch assigns an ecclesiastical person to a province, they can make up a name of a bishopric they have founded that is located in say the Duke's main city where he resides.
    Last edited by Lucius Malfoy; July 21, 2013 at 12:29 PM.
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  6. #6
    Poach's Avatar Civitate
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    Default Re: Deus Vult 2: The Fourth Crusade and the Latin Empire

    This has promise indeed. What would be the pros and cons of making a single Kingship available?

  7. #7
    Nesimî's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: Deus Vult 2: The Fourth Crusade and the Latin Empire

    I can help with and if necessary control the Seljuks (maybe as a minor moderator or something.) Been looking for an excuse to research the Seljuks and my dad gave me a pretty book with pictures of Seljuk architecture, so I feel kind of nationalist these days.
    shum

  8. #8
    Ace_General's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: Deus Vult 2: The Fourth Crusade and the Latin Empire

    Wait, you can't play the Byzatines????!
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  9. #9
    Lucius Malfoy's Avatar Pure-Blood
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    Default Re: Deus Vult 2: The Fourth Crusade and the Latin Empire

    @Poach: as the king of thessalonica, you would control a central area of the Empire. The existence of this kingship would prevent the isolation of latin possessions in the south from being isolated. The problem with your realm is you border Epirus and the resurgent Bulgarians. Its a matter of choosing who to fight and when. Your position is the furthest west so if you become powerful enough you could attempt a war of independence

    @raf: unless the empire penetrates through the empire of nicaea or the seljuks go on a glorious conquest west, they will probably never meet in battle. For the most part, the Empire of Nicaea manages to defeat their attempts. And they have greater concerns to the East with the mongols and the remnants of the Seljuk empire and to the south where other latins are.

    I am sorry but I wont give minor mod roles for specific nations cause tben everyone will want a position like that for the rest. Sorry
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  10. #10
    Lucius Malfoy's Avatar Pure-Blood
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    Default Re: Deus Vult 2: The Fourth Crusade and the Latin Empire

    And no ace. You can only be in the latin empire and members of it. thats why its a roleplay for the Latin Empire, not the Byzantines. Final word and no further discussion.

    sorry for the double post above, on my mobile.
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    Ace_General's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: Deus Vult 2: The Fourth Crusade and the Latin Empire

    awwww, I cant even get to play the Despotate of Trebizond or something
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  12. #12
    Lucius Malfoy's Avatar Pure-Blood
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    Default Re: Deus Vult 2: The Fourth Crusade and the Latin Empire

    Ace, no. No on anything but the Latin Empire and her vassals. We are playing as the Latins and that is final. End of discussion.
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    Nesimî's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: Deus Vult 2: The Fourth Crusade and the Latin Empire

    We hear and obey, though I still offer to do some modding. I will play an angry treacherous orthodox.
    shum

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    Lucius Malfoy's Avatar Pure-Blood
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    Default Re: Deus Vult 2: The Fourth Crusade and the Latin Empire

    I will keep your offer in mind. I am still considering the whole orthodox chars though. Seeing as you won't be able to do much unless you convert to the Western Church. Pretty much Orthodoxs would have nothing to do. Might be best to just delete that part of character creation. Cause as an orthodox, cant make money nor hold rank.

    I will put the part about orthodox characters on hold and think about it tonight
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    Lucius Malfoy's Avatar Pure-Blood
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    Default Re: Deus Vult 2: The Fourth Crusade and the Latin Empire

    For now, I am just gonna put aside the availability of Orthodox characters to be playable. Since both religions will be hostile and one has the means to literally destroy the other and rules don't give much to the Orthodox, it just wouldn't be fair. I may wanna implement that sort of stuff later when I have thought more about and when the game has started rolling forward/

    I mean your idea is cool Rafs, but without the ability to gain money or power to even carry out plans of revenge, there wouldn't much meat on the bone for you to do anything.
    Last edited by Lucius Malfoy; July 20, 2013 at 10:55 PM.
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  16. #16

    Default Re: Deus Vult 2: The Fourth Crusade and the Latin Empire

    I guess if you're an orthodox you could formulate some kind of peasant rebellion.

  17. #17
    Dirty Chai's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: Deus Vult 2: The Fourth Crusade and the Latin Empire

    I think the heirs of the Emperor have precedent, but Emperorship isn't non-contestable.
    You'd just need a lot of support to become emperor instead of a legitimate heir.

    BTW, here's the surnames I'm thinking of using; they're all Cosmo./Occ. French locations unless otherwise stated:
    de Grenoble
    d'Alençon
    de Namur
    de Gent (Flemish)
    d'Arles
    de Josilin (Breton)
    de Selkirk (Lowland Scot)
    di Luna (Liguria)

    If none of those, I may a made-up second son/brother of a duke or King in France or Germany.
    Last edited by Dirty Chai; July 21, 2013 at 11:35 AM.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Deus Vult 2: The Fourth Crusade and the Latin Empire

    not entirely sure who or what.

  19. #19
    Dirty Chai's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: Deus Vult 2: The Fourth Crusade and the Latin Empire

    Villehardouin-esque chronicler knight?

  20. #20

    Default Re: Deus Vult 2: The Fourth Crusade and the Latin Empire

    not entirely sure who or what.

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