Byzantine heavy units

[Suthseaxe]

I'm playing a Byzantine campaign and am wondering when I will be able to recruit or retrain certain heavy units. I have a unit of Scholarii at Constantinople, but I lost one unit in a Seljuq ambush in Anatolia, so I am wondering when I will be able to replace it. Also, my Varangian guard unit is a veteran of many battles and, though there are still lots of them left, I wonder when I will be able to retrain them. Are they date-controlled, or do I have to get the population of Corinth up to 9000(!)? I am aware that Byzantine armies were how mine are at the moment, lots of low-level troops bulked out by mercenaries, but I would like to see some heavier units available for use. Is there a list anywhere of when certain units become available? (the unit databse in the repository only goes up to 6.1)

[mishkin]

Those ere heavy units appear after after the mongol invasion, iirc. Are date-controlled. And sadly there is not a list with units-date, but you can search in the edb files with what historical event (date) they are related

[Vissewalde rex de Gerzika]

And sadly there is not a list with units-date, but you can search in the edb files with what historical event (date) they are related

Thats kind of wrong http://stainless-steel-mod.com/

[mishkin]

Thats kind of wrong http://stainless-steel-mod.com/

Thanks a lot mate. (out of +rep now, but I´ll remember)

[Vissewalde rex de Gerzika]

I swear I've managed to retrain one unit of scholarii in Constantinople. It's a little sad that I can;t get any of these real "Byzantine" units until a looong time in the future (I don't think I'm even in 1120 yet), but I suppose I'll just have to deal with it! Thanks for the link, by the way. That's immensely helpful.

You can play the late campaign where the late units are unlocked in turn 4 I think, but the Byzantines are on the border of destruction at that time, having lost constantinople(the only city where you can recruit the best of the best byz units) to the 4th crusade.

Yes, you're right, you can retrain scholarii in constantinople from the beginning of the early campaign, if their numbers haven't dropped too low. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise

If thats true, that is pretty cool little feature that I havent noticed.

Thanks a lot mate. (out of +rep now, but I´ll remember)

No problem Keep in mind that it is slightly outdated, but for the most part it is the same as in 6.4.

[Suthseaxe]

Wow, I have a while to wait then! It's a shame, because the Byzantines definitely had Kataphraktoi and such before the Mongols

Which folder are these files in, btw?

[napoleonic]

how did you lose a tank unit? even in ambush they should still be near invincible, were you very heavily outnumbered or what?

[Mank]

The Scholarii are available only in Constantinople after building the Scholae Barracks (available after the Fourth Lateran Council in 1216).

Edit: There actually is a second Scholarii recruit pool for pre-4th Lateran Council. You still need the Scholae Barracks, and the refresh rate for the pool is .05 (so it will take a full 20 turns between available units).

Varrangoi are recruited in any City with a Mayor's Palace after the Heavy Mail event in the early 13th century (1200-1215). The Mayor's Palace does require a Huge City.

[Shaun]

I'm sure damaged units can be retrained even if they are not available to train from scratch yet. I am very certain that I have managed to retrain my original Varangian Guards and Scholarii when they have taken casualties at Constantinople.

[Vissewalde rex de Gerzika]

I'm sure damaged units can be retrained even if they are not available to train from scratch yet. I am very certain that I have managed to retrain my original Varangian Guards and Scholarii when they have taken casualties at Constantinople.

You can't, you can only upgrade their armor.

[Shaun]

You can't, you can only upgrade their armor.

No, I'm 99% certain I have managed to have their numbers replenished. Their numbers had dropped only a very little, but I am still almost certain I managed to retrain them up to full numerical strength again. Same with Varangian Guards.

[Suthseaxe]

I swear I've managed to retrain one unit of scholarii in Constantinople. It's a little sad that I can;t get any of these real "Byzantine" units until a looong time in the future (I don't think I'm even in 1120 yet), but I suppose I'll just have to deal with it! Thanks for the link, by the way. That's immensely helpful.

[Delvecchio1975]

Yes, you're right, you can retrain scholarii in constantinople from the beginning of the early campaign, if their numbers haven't dropped too low. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise

[poisoned goat]

I think you can retrain slightly-damaged units if the number of casualties doesn't exceed a certain number, like 10%. If you look in the EDB, there are entries like:

        recruit_pool "Urban Spear Militia"  0   0.000001   0.1  0  requires factions { milan, venice, papal_states, sicily, }

with extremely low replenish rates and a max unit count of 0.1 (essentially impossible to recruit). I think this part of the code is the one that allows you to retrain units even though you can't recruit them; this mainly applies to outdated units like mailed knights, but also Scholarii I think.

Do you need the imperial barracks present to be able to retrain slightly weakened units of Scholarii? The EDB entries for Scholarii (including the retraining one) only appear under the imperial barracks.

[Suthseaxe]

The feature is correct. I made an error: I hadn't lost the scholarii. In fact, they were only slightly depleted. I just misplaced them in my Anatolia campaign! I sent them back to Constantinople and retrained them to full numbers.

Does the late campaign not start in 1200? Wouldn't Constantinople still be owned by the Byzantines then? I thought it was lost in 1204. Who owns it in the late campaign, then?

[Vissewalde rex de Gerzika]

Does the late campaign not start in 1200? Wouldn't Constantinople still be owned by the Byzantines then? I thought it was lost in 1204. Who owns it in the late campaign, then?

The late campaign starts in 1204 to be precise.

[❋ Flavius Belisarius ❋]

Whow, I didn't know this feature, I used to keep them safe at Constantinople in case there was an invasion until I can recruit them.

[poisoned goat]

It's 1220 in vanilla SS. Events in early/late campaigns differ by 120 years, with the exception of a few like the 4th lateran council, children's crusade and gunpowder discovered.

In the late campaign, Constantinople and a bunch of other settlements are rebel-controlled with massive crusader armies sitting inside.

[Vissewalde rex de Gerzika]

It's 1220 in vanilla SS. Events in early/late campaigns differ by 120 years, with the exception of a few like the 4th lateran council, children's crusade and gunpowder discovered.

In the late campaign, Constantinople and a bunch of other settlements are rebel-controlled with massive crusader armies sitting inside.

Thanks for the correction, I havent played in a while.

[paleologos]

I never did understand the "heavy mail" event.
A hauberk and a haubergeon do not require different technologies, just different amounts of work.
Not to mention ERE and Persian Kataphrakts were both more heavily armoured than Norman knights in the battle of Durazzo or French knights in the latin conquest of Constandinople.
Maybe we should just do away with the "heavy mail event".