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Thread: Seether's Gameplay Notes

  1. #81
    Civis
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    Default Re: Seether's Gameplay Notes

    I have rotated between shogun 2 and ROTK XI and V for like the last 2 years and wanted to get M2TW really bad for the Third Age mod, then i seen this and almost pooped! So i ran right out and bought a steam card, I cant wait to check this out! I mod S2 a little and if i can be of any help, playtesting or editing in the PFM please let me know!

  2. #82
    Seether's Avatar RoTK Workhorse
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    Default Re: Seether's Gameplay Notes

    OP Updated:

    03 August Update

    The day is finally here... version 1.0 has been released for public consumption. It has been a long, grueling road for Gigantus, myself, and the rest of the ROTK team, but we got here after more than 2 years of development. However this post is not about the v1.0 release, but more so some of the content that can be found within it. In particular I will be discussing the complete revamp of the Emperor & Usurpation script, Nanman migration and native recruitment, and also the Fortified Pass settlements.

    Previous incarnations of the Emperor & Usurpation script provided very limited options in the ideology and ambition of your faction; that is, whether you will support or usurp the Han emperor when you have the power to do so. Gigantus entirely rewrote the script while I made major modifications to the coding, resulting in a completely different experience than before with much more noticeable cosmetic results. In a nutshell, the script advances based on the number of settlements your faction controls, whether you do or do not control Chang An, and any decisions you make during the course of the script. In the first few turns, you will notice a message that talks about being Imperial Guardian; this forms the foundation of one path of the script. In this path control of Chang An (and the Emperor) is the key ingredient to advancing the script. As you acquire more settlements and more power, you will not only achieve greater rank within the Han government, but will later be presented with options to either support or usurp the Han. Similarly, if you do not control Chang An, you will be presented with similar dilemmas as you gain more territory and power. With the central government non-existent and the Emperor under the sway of other warlords, you will be offered the opportunity to self-proclaim noble ranks for yourself. Specifically, you can assume the rank of King and even Emperor of your own dynasty... if that is your desire. If you wish to stay loyal to the Han, and not assume self-proclaimed rank without the Emperor's consent, you can always turn down such opportunities.

    Something new that was introduced (possibly in the last patch... I can't remember) was a unique recruitment system between the Nanman and Han factions. The idea for this comes from the fact that the Han Chinese and Nanman are so very different in not only their cultures and societies, but also in their manner of warfare. In this regard, depending on whether you are a Han faction or the Nanman, your unit recruitment options will change when inside or outside of the Nanzhong region (southwest China). First, I'll discuss playing as a Han faction. If you conquer territory in Nanzhong, which is land sparsely inhabited by Han Chinese people, you will find that your recruitment is far different than in your native Han settlements. You will have the ability to only recruit native Nanman soldiers, which are of slightly lesser quality than their counterparts in the Southern Tribes, and cannot recruit any of your typical Han units. However, recruitment of the Nanman units will mostly be of those that are infantry-based, with limited missile and cavalry units available. While playing as the Nanman, the same situation (but in reverse) applies to when you conquer Han settlements outside of Nanzhong, however there is another component. In your building browser for settlements outside of Nanzhong, you will see the 'Yizu Tribal Integration' building chain. Essentially these buildings represent migration of the Nanman tribes into Han territory, in turn allowing for the recruitment of regular Nanman military units. It is an interesting dynamic that gives at least a small bit of realism to the mod, at least in terms of the era's "culture clash."

    And finally I am going to talk about the new Fortified Passes. But first, what are fortified passes? Basically they are fortifications found within strategic mountain passes, which are primarily located in north, central, and western China. Most were a part or an extension of the defensive system of the Great Wall but, unlike the majority of the Great Wall, these fortification were made of stone and brick as opposed to earthen mounds. In previous versions these Fortified Pass settlements were just villages but, once they got too much population and you upgraded them, then they were no longer strategic defensive fortifications. They were then changed to be unable to upgrade in size, and were simply placeholders until we could use IWTE to make proper fortifications. Unfortunately, with a small team and limited resources, this has yet to be done. Instead, what we have done is re-established castles as settlement types, with the Fortified Passes all assigned as castles and using a small settlement with brick walls. While this serves the intended purpose of a strategic defensive structure, it is not what we want or the end result. In the coming months when v1.1 is eventually released, and after we get more familiar with IWTE, we will have proper mountain pass fortifications as a part of the mod.
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  3. #83

    Default Re: Seether's Gameplay Notes

    Hey RoTK Team, just wanted to pop in for a bit and say that I am extremely impressed with the amount of time and effort spent on this project. As an avid fan of both the total war series and eastern history I was amazed to find, when checking for mods after re-installing medieval 2 yesterday, that something like this actually existed. On top of that I didn't even have to wait for it! I spent pretty much the entirety of today playing the open beta and loved every second of it. Half of it was just because of the novelty value of something like this, but in addition to that the scale and relative historical/geographical accuracy is unbelievable. The amount of work put into this must have been so much more than is readily visible. A simple thank you just doesn't seem to cut it here. If I could do more, I absolutely would. But thanks nonetheless, you've successfully made me decide to call into work today and possibly tomorrow as well >_>

    That aside, there still are a few problems I've been seeing, particularly when it comes to the AI economy and unit stacking. It's like playing against a constant 'mongol' invasion of Yuans and Caos and Lius. In my mind this makes it feel as though I'm constantly trying to play against the game, trying to find ways to cheat the system, instead of playing in it. I also noticed that factions are now being treated as 'catholic' factions and the addition of the 'ReallyBadAI' mod. Will this fix the constant AI aggression/unit stacking or is that still a WIP? Rather, do you view the current AI as having any problems or is it intended to be the way it currently is?

  4. #84
    Seether's Avatar RoTK Workhorse
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    Default Re: Seether's Gameplay Notes

    First, welcome to TWC and thank you for your kind words; that was an excellent first post.

    The AI economy is still an ongoing issue. Gigantus has done a lot of tweaking, and we even had some public testing, but the economy is not quite where we want it to be. I would argue that it is now better than it has been, but still needs work; mostly on the back end when factions acquire 15+ settlements and have an essentially endless income of money. Availability of money affects a factions ability to create unit stacks, however the AI is horrible with their money and gives priority to recruiting units over constructing buildings. If money is not enough, then the AI will only recruit units and won't construct buildings. If money is too much, the AI will produce endless stacks. Finding the "sweet spot" is difficult but, as I said, progress has been made and work continues to be done on the economy.

    All factions now being "Catholic" (AI-wise, not religion-wise) was instigated by Gigantus to combat the constant AI aggressiveness and mindless backstabbing. If two factions are Catholic, they will respond better diplomatically with each other; if they are not both Catholic, they will backstab each other like crazy. However, keep in mind that the mod represents a civil war and all of the factions want to win. So don't expect an ally to always remain your ally, don't expect neighbors not to hit you when you're vulnerable, and don't give up on an opportunity to annihilate another faction. To answer the last part of your question, I don't see the AI as having any major problems. I can't really say that it is intended as currently is, as CAI and BAI sometimes have a mind of their own. What we intend for a CAI to do could work, in some instances, different than we had wanted. So problems could arise and the AI could show itself in need of refinement, or the AI could work with only minor or no issues. Either way, there will be major patches coming to this mod still (more scripts, unit reskinnings, etc.), with v1.1 hopefully coming out sometime next year.
    Last edited by Seether; August 04, 2014 at 12:52 AM.
    Member of the Imperial House of Hader - Under the Benevolent Patronage of y2day
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  5. #85

    Default Re: Seether's Gameplay Notes

    So if you're playing as The Liu Clan you: "First, that you need to take your entire faction on the journey to Xin Ye." I guess entire faction means abandoning the cities you start with correct?

  6. #86
    Seether's Avatar RoTK Workhorse
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    Default Re: Seether's Gameplay Notes

    Well, you can't completely abandon them until after you capture Xin Ye. First reason is because you need the income, and second is because you will lose the game if you lose all your cities. The end of the mission text says: "Be careful to not allow all of your holdings in Xuzhou to rebel! Perhaps constructing some Decree Offices and recruiting some Militia units could keep the lands of Xu content for the time being."

    Once you take Xin Ye and have Liu Bei in Xin Ye's region, the following turn the mission will update, at which point it tells you to make Xin Ye your capital and allow your starting (Xu province) settlements to rebel. As opposed to allowing them to rebel, you can always sell them. Regardless, the next stage of the mission (defeating Jingzhou faction) will not update if you still retain your original starting (Xu province) settlements.
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  7. #87

    Default Re: Seether's Gameplay Notes

    Hi, I play the Xiao and was wondering if you either have the score or the name of the Xiao piece that can be heard during gameplay.
    Also the Chinese text you use for Historical Event is a VERY awkward translation (The most most unlikely historical event). Like the Ou Ran bit is awkward as it is but adding Zhui infront really ruins it.

    Imo just go for: Historical Event
    (Li Shi Shi Jian)

  8. #88
    Seether's Avatar RoTK Workhorse
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    Default Re: Seether's Gameplay Notes

    No native Chinese speakers (or even decent ones) on the team, but you are correct that it is a very awkward translation. I don't want to say that it is too late, but it sort of is as we would have to redo every single eventpic (which can be done, but definitely isn't high on our priority list). By the way, can you give me the characters for that translation?
    Member of the Imperial House of Hader - Under the Benevolent Patronage of y2day
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  9. #89

    Default Re: Seether's Gameplay Notes

    I could probably help you guys out in my spare time then. Im a Native Chinese Speaker with a very comprehensive understanding of the language, culture, history etc. Characters: 历史事件 (Basically just the right half of the current one)

  10. #90

    Default Re: Seether's Gameplay Notes

    Can't edit above post so yes do you know the name of the piece that is played on the Campaign map? I play the Bamboo Flute and that piece sounds very lovely and would like to try it.

  11. #91
    Seether's Avatar RoTK Workhorse
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    Default Re: Seether's Gameplay Notes

    Thank you for the translation

    The music comes from the RTW version and was ported over for this mod so, unfortunately, I'm not sure what the name of the piece is.
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  12. #92

    Default Re: Seether's Gameplay Notes

    Another thing I found awkward was calling Yu Ling Jun "Feathered Forest Guards" whilst yes it is the literal translation it is quite awkward.
    Calling them Feathered Forest Guards would be the equivelent of say the Western World calling Centurions "Captain of a hundred men" instead of by the Latin term Centurion

    So imo some edit to the unit_descr changing the name of those units to Yu Ling Guards (so actual name Yu Ling Guards) and in the unit description flavour describe them along the lines of Yu Ling Guards (Feathered Forest Guards) are ....

  13. #93

    Default Re: Seether's Gameplay Notes

    Man i just played this mod today and everything is amazing. You guys are very talented. Thank you for making this great mod.

  14. #94
    Seether's Avatar RoTK Workhorse
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    Default Re: Seether's Gameplay Notes

    Quote Originally Posted by Liu Xuan De View Post
    Another thing I found awkward was calling Yu Ling Jun "Feathered Forest Guards" whilst yes it is the literal translation it is quite awkward.
    Calling them Feathered Forest Guards would be the equivelent of say the Western World calling Centurions "Captain of a hundred men" instead of by the Latin term Centurion

    So imo some edit to the unit_descr changing the name of those units to Yu Ling Guards (so actual name Yu Ling Guards) and in the unit description flavour describe them along the lines of Yu Ling Guards (Feathered Forest Guards) are ....
    There are two different meanings of the word 'guard,' one singular and the other plural, and you using the incorrect singular version. Guard can refer to 1) a person on sentinel duty (singular); or 2) troops attached to the person of the sovereign (plural). In the mod the word 'Guard' is being used to designate a unit (ie: Imperial Guard) in the plural meaning of the word, as opposed to a position or an individual (ie: guardsman) in the singular meaning. So you're comparison to Centurion isn't really the same, as Centurion is singular and Guard is plural (and also referring to a military unit).

    Despite that, I am going to remove the word 'Guard' from the units' names, as they were referred to as the Feathered Forest and not the Feathered Forest Guard.

    Quote Originally Posted by sindragoon View Post
    Man i just played this mod today and everything is amazing. You guys are very talented. Thank you for making this great mod.
    Thank you for your kind words. We appreciate it!
    Last edited by Seether; September 09, 2014 at 02:08 AM.
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  15. #95

    Default Re: Seether's Gameplay Notes

    Quote Originally Posted by Liu Xuan De View Post
    Another thing I found awkward was calling Yu Ling Jun "Feathered Forest Guards"
    I think it should be called "Yu Lin" instead of " Yu Ling"

  16. #96

    Default Re: Seether's Gameplay Notes

    Quote Originally Posted by Minn View Post
    I think it should be called "Yu Lin" instead of " Yu Ling"
    Oops it is indeed Lin instead of Ling, my mistake
    Also is the town centre building im guessing Taishou Fu etc in siege battles suppose to be blacked out? And also, seems Chen Deng is also missing a model

  17. #97
    Seether's Avatar RoTK Workhorse
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    Default Re: Seether's Gameplay Notes

    Quote Originally Posted by Liu Xuan De View Post
    Also is the town centre building im guessing Taishou Fu etc in siege battles suppose to be blacked out? And also, seems Chen Deng is also missing a model
    The black building and missing model were both reported some time ago. Also, this thread is not for "errors" or "bugs" to be reported; such things belong in the Error Reports forum.
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  18. #98
    Morrowgan's Avatar Ordinarius
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    Default Re: Seether's Gameplay Notes

    What are the titles of the possible kingdoms e.g. "King of Yan" for Gongsun Du ?
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  19. #99

    Default Re: Seether's Gameplay Notes

    Hi I just got the Three Kingdoms version 1.4. The game has something that I find a bit weird like the trade income of cities randomly just disappearing. For example, Pu Yang would start with 600+ trade; but 30 turns into the game Pu Yang will have 0 trade income. Is that supposed to happen? I made sure there weren't any foreign merchants in my territory, but the results were the same.

  20. #100
    Gigantus's Avatar The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it
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    Default Re: Seether's Gameplay Notes

    It's the diminished trade principle - the more settlements you have the smaller the income per settlement becomes until it is zero. Forcing you to adjust your income to merchants and taxes.



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