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Thread: Seether's Gameplay Notes

  1. #281

    Default Re: Seether's Gameplay Notes

    1. I'll elaborate more as to why I'm against it. The thing about the map is that most regions are compact enough the ai don't leave it undefended. Not always, it is the AI, but in my long history with this game I have found that mods that implement garrison troops kill vibes like no tomorrow. As I said before, many times I've won a massive victory, only for it to mean absolutely nothing when the Ai get garrison troops. It works in future titles because of the army restrictions, but they've countered it a lot already without forcing a garrison script.

    2. I've rarely if ever seen Cao Cao himself die. It is one of those things that I think may be something you can do it to your own game. The only time something like this comes up is with the Lui Bei faction when it is not player controlled, but in the end, the mod focused more on "making your own path" rather than forcing factions like Lui Bei and Cao Cao to always succeed.

    3. The AI sends *everything* whenever they attack on a bridge. Whenever I attack them, they always stay put and somewhat defend the bridge in a semi-intelligent manner. So much is desired with the AI in this game, so removing relevancy of things like bridges in the end are small comparatively. In my eyes, this answer can be tied to the first's answer as well. There's only so much you can do to cater to the AI before you start anti-cheesing too much against a very cheesy game. Making it so there is only one way of playing the game is nothing to be desired, something which other mods which I used to be such big fans of fell into a hole of.

  2. #282
    Gigantus's Avatar The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it
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    Default Re: Seether's Gameplay Notes

    Open ended garrison scripts do more harm then good. Personally I am all for selected garrison scripts at the beginning of the game, but only for factions that otherwise would get steam rolled by the player or even the AI. If those factions still struggle by turn 40 then that's tough luck because that's about when the script should terminate.

    Used that quite efficiently in the 1648 mod where the initial, historical game set up would have otherwise resulted in a good number of very short lived factions. Don't think it's required here.



  3. #283
    Otterbear's Avatar Tiro
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    Default Re: Seether's Gameplay Notes

    Quote Originally Posted by MilesNDavis View Post
    ...mods that implement garrison troops kill vibes like no tomorrow. As I said before, many times I've won a massive victory, only for it to mean absolutely nothing when the Ai get garrison troops. It works in future titles because of the army restrictions, but they've countered it a lot already without forcing a garrison script.
    Can I just cuncur with this statement and say a HUGE thank you to you, and another HUGE Thank you to Gigantus, for not putting garrison scripts in this mod.
    It is so demoralizing to run into that script. It negates any stratagem you may have used to lure the enemy away from defending settlements.
    Removes any realism from game-play.
    And, as has been noted, trying to compensate for the AI, at the expense of the player(s) experience has its limits.
    I have TATW, and DAC, and I've pretty much quit playing them because of those scripts.
    Maybe someday I'll have the time and patience to go in and eliminate them, but its a job I'd rather not have to do with this mod.

  4. #284

    Default Re: Seether's Gameplay Notes

    Great work on the newest version! Loving the new factions and tweaks. A few things I noticed is the Sun clan is sending armies all over the map without attacking anything in a few of my campaigns. In my He Bei campaign Sun Jiao has made his way with a full stack, to the Heishan bandits land and is just walking around unmolested. The AI seeems to not declare war very often either but this is consistent with all the versions.

    Also Is there a way to make it so that when you bribe the foreign faction (di, qiang, wu han, xiongu, shanyue) to include the troops they have? It would make lore sense in that you are paying them to use their armies to help you achieve your warlords goals.

  5. #285
    Seether's Avatar RoTK Workhorse
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    Default Re: Seether's Gameplay Notes

    Quote Originally Posted by Gongsunzan View Post
    Great work on the newest version! Loving the new factions and tweaks. A few things I noticed is the Sun clan is sending armies all over the map without attacking anything in a few of my campaigns. In my He Bei campaign Sun Jiao has made his way with a full stack, to the Heishan bandits land and is just walking around unmolested. The AI seeems to not declare war very often either but this is consistent with all the versions.
    Not sure why that is.

    Also Is there a way to make it so that when you bribe the foreign faction (di, qiang, wu han, xiongu, shanyue) to include the troops they have? It would make lore sense in that you are paying them to use their armies to help you achieve your warlords goals.
    Don't really agree with this. In regard to lore, "barbarians" were bribed to 'go away'. Making use of their armies for your own (ie: Cao Cao with Wuhuan) required forcing their submission; which you can do.
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  6. #286

    Default Re: Seether's Gameplay Notes

    Quote Originally Posted by Seether View Post
    Not sure why that is.


    Don't really agree with this. In regard to lore, "barbarians" were bribed to 'go away'. Making use of their armies for your own (ie: Cao Cao with Wuhuan) required forcing their submission; which you can do.
    The Sun army has seemed to send armies throughout everyone's lands when I did a toggle_fow check. It seems they are trying to reach some destination, it may be because they are at war with Liu Bei and wont use ships to get to him. Through various games, I've noticed that most factions do not use ships to land armies except for Qingzhou. They always land armies in Youzhou to attack Gongsun Zan, even when I don't play as him. The other factiosn only seem to blockade, but they don't land armies.

    As far as the barbarians bringing their armies, I was thinking of when the Qiang and Di had armies that helped Ma chao and Wei, and when the Wuhan helped the Yuan kids against Cao Cao. But maybe there could be scripted events for that such as in the Teutonic Campaign, crusading nobles.

    I respect that you don't want to add it as your preference but How would I go about making it for my own games to include the troops from the foreign tribes when I bribe their generals? I know I can make them included in the factions in the units text file but how do I also include the textures?

  7. #287
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    Default Re: Seether's Gameplay Notes

    In those instances I’d argue the Di, Qiang and Wuhuan as being independent factions fighting with another faction against a common enemy.

    As far as what you ask, you’d have to add ownership to the unit in EDU. Then note the “soldier” and “upgrade” models for the unit. Then add faction entries in battle_model.modeldb for those models. A tedious task that easily leads to mistakes. It still catches me from time to time.
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  8. #288
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    Default Re: Seether's Gameplay Notes

    Playing as the Sun, both Qingzhou, and Jingzhou have landed troops from the sea/river in my territories.
    I have also found, if your faction is perceived by the AI, to be very strong, other factions will avoid declaring war on you...even though they may want too.

    Gongsunzan; There is a good tutorial on how to add units and their respective textures, ect... done by the creator of the DAC submod for TATW, on YouTube in this list here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3ua...pDq8HpWwKAYwRj

    *I realize that you are not trying to create "New" units, but the tutorial did help me with doing exactly what you are trying to do, with other mods.

  9. #289

    Default Re: Seether's Gameplay Notes

    One thing guys! Please for version 3.0 use other portraits.... The portraits that we have now are ugly... Use portraits from kongming archievs or something... Please
    ... The mod is great all looks awesome .......except the portraits

  10. #290
    Seether's Avatar RoTK Workhorse
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    Default Re: Seether's Gameplay Notes

    We'll have to agree to disagree on that. The new portraits are from RTK 13, which I think are of much higher quality, while the newest portraits on KMA are from RTK 11 (which was released 12 years ago).
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  11. #291

    Default Re: Seether's Gameplay Notes

    I like the new portraits just as much, I think the older ones I liked more out of nostalgia of playing this mod over the years. The new ones look older and more mature, to myself.

  12. #292
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    Default Re: Seether's Gameplay Notes

    Hi, I must say after trying many mods this one might be my favorite, after 2 grueling hours of dealing with bad internet and slow processors I got RoTK installed and well...... I'll put it this way, time flew too fast and I lost track of time . I really enjoy the lack of garrison scripts as mentioned above.The fact that you can field many larger armies in the early game is pretty nice for me because of how difficult it is for my squirrel level attention span to get to the late-game. And it was a generally good experience. Being a veteran of TATW DaC this mod was immensely better than it and I regret not downloading this sooner. Also, hi miles.
    Last edited by Sir Matthias; November 26, 2018 at 11:02 AM.

  13. #293
    Seether's Avatar RoTK Workhorse
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    Default Re: Seether's Gameplay Notes

    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Matthias View Post
    Hi, I must say after trying many mods this one might be my favorite, after 2 grueling hours of dealing with bad internet and slow processors I got RoTK installed and well...... I'll put it this way, time flew too fast and I lost track of time . I really enjoy the lack of garrison scripts as mentioned above.The fact that you can field many larger armies in the early game is pretty nice for me because of how difficult it is for my squirrel level attention span to get to the late-game. And it was a generally good experience. Being a veteran of TATW DaC this mod was immensely better than it and I regret not downloading this sooner. Also, hi miles.
    Thank you for your kind words Making RoTK has been a labor of love; I put more hours into development than my full-time job. Version 3.0 should be out before Christmas and not only do we have a bunch of new content, but we've also fixed a lot of things that were broken and/or not working as intended.
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  14. #294
    Sir Matthias's Avatar Tiro
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    Default Re: Seether's Gameplay Notes

    I understand the love that goes into these things. I spent 7 months adding 2 thousand lines of script and testing it and texturing and failing miserably a few times. And the best part is indeed the gratification that people supply after it's all done.

  15. #295
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    Default Re: Seether's Gameplay Notes

    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Matthias View Post
    I understand the love that goes into these things. I spent 7 months adding 2 thousand lines of script and testing it and texturing and failing miserably a few times. And the best part is indeed the gratification that people supply after it's all done.
    I completely understand

    Here is an AI hotseat test of the new v3.0 campaign, only ran 62 turns

    Turn 15
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    Everyone is doing relatively well, expanding into neighboring rebel settlements and engaging in some faction wars. In the south, the Sun Clan wiped out both Yangzhou and East Wu, and are currently stomping on Yue, while Jingzhou took Wuling from Jingnan. In the Central Plains the Cao Clan took Jiying from Yanzhou and then won a huge battle (Cao Cao vs. Zang Ba) near Shanyang, taking that city a couple turns later. The north has mostly been quiet, except for the Yuan Clan taking Fanyang from Youzhou, and pushing a lot of armies against both Youzhou and the Heishan. Out west, the Wudoumi Sect captured Wudu from Xiliang.



    Turn 34
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    The Sun Clan completed their conquest of Jiangdong, eliminating both Yue and the Shanyue, then declared war on Jingzhou and started moving armies further west. Jingzhou started pushing north against Nanyang, taking Xincheng and forcing the evacuation of Xinye. In the Central Plains, Huainan destroyed Chen, and then got embroiled in a war with the Cao Clan and Liu Clan, which forced them to not take rebel-held Ruyin. The Cao Clan took Yanzhou's capital of Puyang, then went after the Liu Clan and took both Pengcheng and Huailing. Qingzhou (who rarely does much) took advantage of this and captured Langya from the Liu Clan. However, they lost Linzi to the Yuan Clan, who crossed over the Yellow River. In the north, the Yuan Clan proceeded to destroy Youzhou by taking Beiping and Liaoxi, while also beating off major Heishan armies invading Ji province. The Xianbei took advantage of this, taking the (now rebel) city of Daixian and also Yanmen Pass, Xinxing and Jinyang from an undermanned Heishan. The also declared war on the Yuan Clan and took Hu Pass from them. Goguryeo and Liaodong have been battling over the city of Dandong, with it having switched hands a few times, but Goguryeo holding it at this point. Out west, both Ba-Shu and Liang swallowed up territory of Xiliang, leaving them with only once city.



    Turn 62
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    The Sun Clan continued to expand west, taking Jiangxia and Baqiu from Jingzhou, and also Nanhai from Jiaozhou. Jingnan retook Wuling, leaving Jingzhou with only the city of Gongan south of the yangtze. Jingzhou did, however, continue their war against Nanyang, completing it with the capture of Wancheng and eliminating them. In the Central Plains the Cao Clan managed to secure Guangling from the Liu Clan, but now found themselves at war against not only the Liu Clan, Huainan and Yanzhou, but now also the Yuan Clan, who took Guandu from them. Despite this they are holding their ground and going on the offensive. In the north the Yuan Clan reigns supreme, but they cannot commit their full resources against the Cao Clan to their south, because of the Xianbei and Goguryeo on their northern borders. The Xianbei captured Xihe from the Heishan and eliminated them, and have been engaged in war with both the Yuan Clan and Henan, who are allied against them. Goguryeo completed their conquest of Liaodong, then went to war with the Yuan Clan and allied with the Xianbei.
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  16. #296
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    Default Re: Seether's Gameplay Notes

    Nice, looks like very natural progression

  17. #297
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    Default Re: Seether's Gameplay Notes

    I've just realized this while playing lui bei, I love the limited recruitment slots and the low upkeep of units, it makes it feel like your expansion is curbed and you have to actually sit in certain settlements for a while to make sure you can leave a decent garrison behind. It also makes larger battles more appealing as well which I think is a very nice touch. All of these minor things just add up and I must say this is a very enjoyable campaign.

  18. #298

    Default Re: Seether's Gameplay Notes

    It seems like AI got some boost, any changelog will be welcome

  19. #299
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    Default Re: Seether's Gameplay Notes

    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Matthias View Post
    I've just realized this while playing lui bei, I love the limited recruitment slots and the low upkeep of units, it makes it feel like your expansion is curbed and you have to actually sit in certain settlements for a while to make sure you can leave a decent garrison behind. It also makes larger battles more appealing as well which I think is a very nice touch. All of these minor things just add up and I must say this is a very enjoyable campaign.
    Thank you! We appreciate the feedback!

    Quote Originally Posted by gasas View Post
    It seems like AI got some boost, any changelog will be welcome
    Here are just a few things from the v3.0 changelog:
    - New Faction: Goguryeo (unit roster, family, traits, events)
    - Mission system for Yuan Clan
    - New battle maps for fortified passes
    - New intro movie
    - New Nanman, Shanyue, Xianbei and Goguryeo characters receive basic title on turn after joining
    - New Han characters receive biography trait and title on turn after joining (30 different bios and titles)
    - Historical character titles for Liu, Cao and Sun clans overhauled (as they have, by far, the most available information)
    - A ton of map changes, fixes and improvements (new settlements, some borders redrawn, roads now connect between all settlements)
    - Revert CAI back from SkyNet AI to SavageAI
    Last edited by Seether; November 28, 2018 at 10:24 AM.
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  20. #300

    Default Re: Seether's Gameplay Notes

    These things in the list changes for v3.0 sound pretty awesome even better with a new faction, new missions, and more. I love it!
    I want to add few things that remind you just in case if you missed.


    -Have you complete the picture of every unit with "background"?

    -I was hoping maybe if you or your teammates could possibly make few more historic retinues like common weapons, armors, shields, and items. If not, I'll understand. (Forgive me bec I am still stubborn about the retinues)

    -Lastly, I have noticed that factions overproduced their units and wandering all over the map without attacking their enemies unintentionally . Does that related to the fix from SkyNET AI to SavageAI?


    Thank you for your worth perspective, time and effort for this game.

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