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Thread: Seether's Gameplay Notes

  1. #1
    Seether's Avatar RoTK Workhorse
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    Icon3 Seether's Gameplay Notes

    Hello everyone. For those of you that don't know me, I am Seether and I am one of the developers of this fine modification for Medieval II Total War. I joined this project in August of 2012 and since then I have been working closely with Gigantus and y2day to get this mod released into its current beta. Before this I made some minor modifications for the famed Stainless Steel mod, all of which are now a part of the core mod, and have been a member of TWC since 2005. I am an avid RTK fan and scholar, having taken an interest in the era since I was 5 years old and have been a part of the global RTK fan community for the past 12 years. Originally I was signed on to be the mod's historian but, because of my background in text-based modding for M2TW, I found some use in the actual development of the mod along with the other members. Gigantus has been extremely welcoming to my advice and ideas, and has given me quite a lot of leeway in the direction that this mod is headed, even though I will always defer to his judgement on all matters as he is supremely more knowledgeable and skilled in modding than I could ever hope to be. I would like to remind everyone that this is only a beta release, not a finished or polished product, so there will undoubtedly be bugs, errors, and crashes. That is what happens during open beta testing and we NEED people to speak up if they believe something is wrong or out of the ordinary, as that will only allow us to improve and create a better mod. I'd also like to point out that a lot of the long-term aspects of this mod, such as usurpation, supporting the Han, establishing dynasties, and a lot of fun scripts, are either still in development or are present but incomplete.

    With that introduction out of the way, let's get to the good stuff: gameplay

    First, I would like to talk about the Unaligned faction. They appear as single characters, bearing a unique light-green color, and can be found all over the map. Do not mistake these guys for rebels, and instinctively attack them, as they are an entirely different animal. What they represent, in a nutshell, are characters that were not a part of any particular warring faction at our start point. Think of them as ronin looking for a lord to serve. Their purpose is simple: to strengthen your faction by giving them quality generals and administrators. Some factions may find themselves with an excess of generals at the start of the game but, as you progress and gain more territories, eventually you will need new blood to manage settlements and command armies. And that is where the Unaligned faction comes in. If you are short on characters but have several thousand wuzhu to spare, send a diplomat to one of them and bribe them. Costs can vary, but sometimes as little as 4000 wuzhu can get you a new general or administrator, which can really help you in your quest to unite China. So be nice to the little green guys sitting around and use them to your advantage.

    Second, I would like to talk about rebels and "barbarians." You probably noticed that the rebel settlements in China-proper are lightly garrisoned. That is intentional and designed to be that way. My reasoning for such is that small garrisons in interior China promotes the expansion of factions in China and leads to conflict between the major players, which is what the RTK era was all about. Yeah, independent garrisons are push overs, but outside of organized forces (like the Yuan clan, Cao clan, etc.) the independents were pretty much pushovers in comparison. I think the focus should be on the factions and civil war within China, hence the small garrisons, while the regions outside China have large garrisons and armies. The outlying "barbarian" regions are much, much more heavily defended and garrisoned than the interior rebels, meaning they will be much harder to conquer. Unless you have no other option, "barbarians" like the Shanyue and Xianbei should be left alone until you have the manpower and resources to take them on.

    Third, and something I mentioned in another thread, is that there are a few unique units in this mod. And I'm not talking about bodyguard units, instead I'm referring to elite units and special forces that gained fame during the RTK era. The Tiger and Leopard Cavalry, Flying Bear Army, White Riders, and Danyang Troop are just a few of these. Although I had made text for them earlier, that text seems to have disappeared, so I will explain in a little detail on how these different unique units work. In the next patch unique units will be denoted in their info cards. Along with this, it will tell you how they can be retrained and, in some cases, where. It will also tell you how unique they are; as in if there can only ever be one unit (if destroyed it is gone forever) or if it can be recruited, very slowly, in specific regions. An example of the former is the Camp Crushers, while an example of the latter is the Qingzhou Troop which can be recruited only in the Qingzhou region to specific factions. Take good care of them, as they are highly valuable and can be of great tactical importance in the heat of battle. As I said, in the next patch you will be able to identify these and see anything specific, in terms of availability and regional recruitment, in their unit info.

    That is all I have for now. When new patches with new concepts come along, expect this thread to get updated with any relevant information. If you have any questions or concerns about gameplay, please feel free to comment in this thread. Until then, happy gaming!

    19 July 2013 Update

    Something that has been brought up over the course of development is the desire for Liu Bei to start out positioned in the western regions of China. This will not happen, as we are basing our positioning of factions on their historic locations in the winter of 194 AD. The problem, obviously, is that Liu Bei will not make it to Yizhou (or Shu, if you will) and establish himself in the region that he is most known for. Many people also want the Sun, Cao, and Liu clans establish dominance over the areas they did historically and recreate, in-game, the Three Kingdoms. Unfortunately such is an impossible task, and it must also be kept in mind that the formation of the Three Kingdoms was a highly complicated process that took roughly forty years and innumerable variables due to individual actions of the people involved. Also once a mod, any mod, starts everything that happens afterwards can vary wildly. You could see Yuan Shao dominate Hebei or the Heishan; Cao Cao could dominate the Central Plains or so could either Lu Bu or Yuan Shu. With mods, you can only recreate history to a point, after that it is up to the player and the AI to determine how things progress.

    But many people still want Liu Bei to establish himself in Shu, and honestly I am one of them, however he will not be there at game start. So what can be done to remedy this? I have already submitted to Gigantus a detailed outline for a series of missions that the player can undertake to accomplish such a task. The missions are, for the most part, accurate as to how Liu Bei went from ruling Xu province, to establishing himself in Jingzhou, and then to Shu. Some things were impossible to recreate, such as Liu Bei serving Yuan Shao and Cao Cao, so I had to be creative and take some liberty in how to get Liu Bei from point A to point B within the confines of the game's mechanics and limitations. If it works as I intend, then players that wish to establish Liu Bei in the land of Shu will be able to do so through a series of missions, with some interesting events along the way. I can't say for certain when these missions will be released in a patch, so keep your eyes peeled for any updates from the Mod team.

    31 July 2013 Update

    As was discussed in my last update, starting in Patch #4 (which was just released) players will have the choice, when playing as the Liu Clan, to undertake a series of missions that will lead to the faction from eastern Xu province all the way to western Yi province. When you start a new game as the Liu Clan, you will immediately be given an event that asks you to either accept or decline these missions. If you decline, you will not get any of the missions or special events that come along with them. If you accept you will first be tasked with capturing Xin Ye, which lies about in the middle of the map. In the mission's text it gives several hints:

    - First, that you need to take your entire faction on the journey to Xin Ye. This is essential to success. Once you take Xin Ye, which is a relatively poor and undeveloped settlement, you will need your entire military force at your disposal in order to complete the next objectives, which involves war with one of the stronger factions in the game.
    - Second, to build some Militia units to keep your holdings in Xu province from rebelling and thus ending your game before you can capture Xin Ye. One Militia unit per city should be fine. Constructing a Decree Office in each city, as well as reducing taxes, will also keep these cities happy until you can abandon them completely.
    - Third, the text also mentions using your starting Diplomat, Liu Qin, to head immediately for Xin Ye and try to bribe it. Doing so will more than likely ensure that you conquer the city without going to war with any of the nearby factions, like Nanyang and Jingzhou, who are allied. It will also ensure that you do not take any military losses unnecessarily in taking Xin Ye.

    Whatever method you choose, either Diplomat bribe or military force, the missions will not advance by just taking Xin Ye. You must also move all of your faction (except those Militias in Xu province) into the Xin Ye. After the next set of missions come up, now would be a good time to make Xin Ye your capital, and also to get rid of those militias in Xu province and put all of the Xu province cities to Very High taxes. But won't this cause them to rebel? Yes, and that is the point. Getting them to rebel is the easiest way to lose control of those settlements so that Xin Ye is your only holding. Plus, with the taxes set Very High, you can make a nice profit before you lose control of them. And finally, and this can't be stressed enough, Liu Bei must remain alive for the missions to continue. If Liu Bei dies, then the missions will be over, so protect the Liu Clan sovereign at all times.

    In the future we will be making some adjustments to the script, and probably adding new missions and events, but for now just enjoy the work the team has done in Patch #4 and enjoy your game.

    01 August 2013 Update

    There was a minor error in the Liu Bei missions that I have fixed. Please refer to this post for more details.

    19 August 2013 Update

    If people are looking for a status update, then look no further. First off, we are getting very deep into our new unit rosters. "And what is so special about that?" you might ask... Well, for starters the standard regular units of every faction will now have historic arms and armor. Please give rep to The Blade That Was Broken, as he has been painstakingly creating models and units for our new roster. After the new units are done, then focus will be moved to armor uprades (so there will be a visual difference between the same unit with different armor upgrades), then we will work on general reskinning. Along with all of that, as was suggested in the forum, recruitment will be based on a regional basis. Right now Cao Cao only recruits Zhongyuan (Central Plains) units in settlements regardless of where the actual settlement lies, but in the new recruitment system he will recruit Ba-Shu units in settlements in the Ba-Shu region, Hebei units in settlement in the Hebei region, and so on. The only drawback is that this is a very time intensive project, so don't expect to see it implement for at least several weeks, if not a bit longer. We are also looking at including settlement titles and ancillaries based on settlement and provincial control. These will be broken down into three main groups, that is county (Magistrate), prefectural (Prefect), and provincial (Governor). This, as above, will take some time to complete and will not be implemented for some time.

    Now, on to something that is (partially) implemented. If you haven't noticed, this latest patch now has some interesting things going on in Chang An. What you will notice is that whoever controls Chang An has two things happen. First, the Faction Leader will get a trait called "Imperial Guardian," representing that the faction leader is in control of Emperor Xian and the Han Court. Along with this, diplomats of the faction that controls the Emperor will get the "Imperial Controller" trait. If a faction controls the Emperor and has a set amount of settlements (won't say how many), they will get the "Prime Minister" trait, representing the Emperor's conferral of title upon the Faction Leader as the de-facto leader of the Han Court. If Chang An is lost, so is control of the Emperor, making this the beginning of a dynamic planned system. And finally, whether in control of the Emperor or not, when a specific number of settlement have been conquered, the Faction Leader will receive the "King" trait. The King trait will be specific for the faction, ie: Cao Cao will be King of Wei, Sun Ce will be King of Wu, etc. As of right now, you can not obtain the Emperor trait through our traits and scripting, as those are still being worked on. In essence, the Prime Minister and King (and Emperor) traits are placeholder for a highly dynamic and interactive scripted system that is being worked on by Gigantus. The player will have choices, as well as consequences and/or rewards for those choices. I won't give too much away but, in simple terms, a player can choose to become the Emperor's protector and support the Han, or replace it with his own regime. As said, what is in place right now is merely a placeholder for a great scripted system of political and philosophical dynamics to be included some time in the future.

    01 February 2014 Update

    It has been a long time since both my last official update and the last official patch. But, fear not! A new patch is on the way. Still no time frame, but I can confirm that we have A LOT of stuff already finished. Right now we are just waiting on a few things to be finished, then we can probably give a tentative release date. So, until the patch comes out, let me give you some insight into a couple of things you will see in this new patch.

    1) As has been mentioned in previews, the first part of our roster overhaul will be implemented. This specific overhaul is what we call the "standard" units; those coming in the Light, Heavy, and Armored variety. Not only will these new units have a variety of faces, armors, and weaponry, but will also have a variety of faces as well. For the Lights and Heavies, when their armor is upgraded via the Smith buildings, you will see changes to their armor in-game. For example, a Light unit with leather lamellar, when upgraded to iron lamellar, will now be equipped with such armor. As said, this is only the first stage of the overhaul process, but we are sure you will all appreciate it once the patch is available.

    2) In the next patch we will be introducing some new scripts. One particular script has to do with what was discussed in my last update: control of the Han emperor. While this script is not 100% complete, it is a fairly extensive script and allows you to make choices on how you ascend rank. The only reason I say it is not 100% complete is because there is more we would like to do, however we have to find workarounds of engine limitations. But even so, this script should still be considered a finished product, but if we can find those workarounds, it will be even more immersive and dynamic.

    3) A new "governor" system will also be implemented. Essentially, each settlement has an associated "governor" title that is given to a character that occupies the settlement. Depending on where the settlement falls in the system of Han administrative organization (commandery, county, etc.), it will dictate the title (Grand Administrator, Prefect, Magistrate, etc.) and bonuses of the specific "governor" title. All will be represented by ancillaries, that are able to be transferred between characters. There will not be provincial titles (ie: Governor of Yi province), as that type of system is extremely complicated. However, it is planned for a future patch, just not this next one.

    That is it for now. As I said, the next patch is nearing completion, but we do not yet have a time frame for release (so don't ask). And there is a lot more stuff in the upcoming patch that what I mentioned above. As always, if you have any questions/comments/concerns, feel free to post them here and I will do my best to answer them.

    17 March 2014 Update

    A new patch, a new set of stuff from me. The first thing I want to talk about is the new units that you will find. Obviously they are a significant change from what we had prior to now. Essentially the core units of each faction have been broken into three tiers: Light, Heavy, and Armored. The Light units represent the standard soldier of a Han/Three Kingdoms era army. The base Light soldier wears a simple leather vest and, in the case of swordsmen and spearmen, a wooden shield. They also have two upgrades, Reinforced Leather Lamellar and Iron Lamellar. Unlike previous to this patch, these units actually have their equipment and armor change when upgraded. The same goes for the next tier, the Heavy Units. Unlike the Light units before them, the Heavy units represent a more professional force of soldiers with extensively crafted arms and armor. From first glance, you can see that not only do they have iron scale cuirasses, but they also have arm and upper-leg protection as well as helmets. These units only have one upgrade, which is from Iron Lamellar to Steel Lamellar. At the steel upgrade you will see that the armor color turns almost black, and the construction of the torso armor changes from scales to plates. Heavy Cavalry upgraded to steel will even have some armor on the top of their thighs. And although I mentioned Armored units, they are not currently in-game at the moment. They probably won't be finished for a few more weeks and we didn't want to delay Patch 8 any longer. The Armored units will be, as you probably guessed, thoroughly armored in Heavy Steel armor from head to toe... well, not toe, more like knees. ThatOtherGuy is currently working on them and, I must say, he is doing some damn fine work. I know you will all love them when they are completed. And the last thing I want to discuss, in regard to units, is the unit cards and UI pics. We are in the process of creating unit cards and UI pics for all of the new units, so the ones you see right now are simply placeholders from the old units that were replaced.

    Although there are some minor issues with the script (which is fixed and will be included in a Hotfix in a couple days), if you have played as either the Cao Clan, Sun Clan, Yuan Clan, or Ba-Shu, you may have noticed that their starting characters have been reduced slightly. If you have captured some specific settlements with those factions, you might have also noticed that you will get a character or two that join your faction. If you constantly get a CTD after taking a settlement, as opposed to getting new characters, that is the script issue that will be in the Hotfix. Other changes with factions have been an increase in starting armies which, combined with the reduction of starting characters, will hopefully alleviate the issue of a bunch of generals clumping together into the same stack and all being killed. It will still happen, and there is absolutely no way to change that, but we can lessen how often it happens.

    If you haven't given +rep to Gigantus yet, please do so, because he is the mad scientist behind all of the excellent scripting going on. One such script has to do with controlling the Han Emperor, being Imperial Guardian, and Usurpation to become Emperor yourself. As the in-game event states, you need to take Chang An to control the Emperor, thus becoming Imperial Guardian. From there, as you increase the size of your realm, you will eventually be given the opportunity to either support or usurp the Han. Supporting will allow you to become Prime Minister, while Usurping will allow you to become Emperor. Also, even if you don't control the Han Emperor, you can "self declare" yourself King, and later Emperor, by holding a large number of settlements. That is just a general overview of the process, as it is a bit more complex than that, but I hope this gives a little better insight into how it works.

    The last thing I'll discuss is some new ancillaries. While in my last update I talked about the new "Governor" ancillaries, there are also "Minister" ancillaries for when your faction leader becomes Emperor. These Ministers include the Grand Master of Ceremonies, Privy Treasurer, Superintendent of the Household, Commandant of Justice, Commandant of the Guards, and Grand Minister of Agriculture. Each has their own unique ancillary, bonuses, and description, as well as unique requirements for acquisition. There was also a general overhaul of the ancillaries that were already in the mod. I went through all of them and was surprised by the amount of incorrect bonuses listed or obsolete (RTW leftover) bonuses for many of the ancillaries. Every ancillary, except for many of the admiral ancillaries, should now have a complete description of just what that ancillary does.

    There was a lot more that went into this patch and what I discussed was only a small select portion of it.

    03 August 2014 Update

    The day is finally here... version 1.0 has been released for public consumption. It has been a long, grueling road for Gigantus, myself, and the rest of the ROTK team, but we got here after more than 2 years of development. However this post is not about the v1.0 release, but more so some of the content that can be found within it. In particular I will be discussing the complete revamp of the Emperor & Usurpation script, Nanman migration and native recruitment, and also the Fortified Pass settlements.

    Previous incarnations of the Emperor & Usurpation script provided very limited options in the ideology and ambition of your faction; that is, whether you will support or usurp the Han emperor when you have the power to do so. Gigantus entirely rewrote the script while I made major modifications to the coding, resulting in a completely different experience than before with much more noticeable cosmetic results. In a nutshell, the script advances based on the number of settlements your faction controls, whether you do or do not control Chang An, and any decisions you make during the course of the script. In the first few turns, you will notice a message that talks about being Imperial Guardian; this forms the foundation of one path of the script. In this path control of Chang An (and the Emperor) is the key ingredient to advancing the script. As you acquire more settlements and more power, you will not only achieve greater rank within the Han government, but will later be presented with options to either support or usurp the Han. Similarly, if you do not control Chang An, you will be presented with similar dilemmas as you gain more territory and power. With the central government non-existent and the Emperor under the sway of other warlords, you will be offered the opportunity to self-proclaim noble ranks for yourself. Specifically, you can assume the rank of King and even Emperor of your own dynasty... if that is your desire. If you wish to stay loyal to the Han, and not assume self-proclaimed rank without the Emperor's consent, you can always turn down such opportunities.

    Something new that was introduced (possibly in the last patch... I can't remember) was a unique recruitment system between the Nanman and Han factions. The idea for this comes from the fact that the Han Chinese and Nanman are so very different in not only their cultures and societies, but also in their manner of warfare. In this regard, depending on whether you are a Han faction or the Nanman, your unit recruitment options will change when inside or outside of the Nanzhong region (southwest China). First, I'll discuss playing as a Han faction. If you conquer territory in Nanzhong, which is land sparsely inhabited by Han Chinese people, you will find that your recruitment is far different than in your native Han settlements. You will have the ability to only recruit native Nanman soldiers, which are of slightly lesser quality than their counterparts in the Southern Tribes, and cannot recruit any of your typical Han units. However, recruitment of the Nanman units will mostly be of those that are infantry-based, with limited missile and cavalry units available. While playing as the Nanman, the same situation (but in reverse) applies to when you conquer Han settlements outside of Nanzhong, however there is another component. In your building browser for settlements outside of Nanzhong, you will see the 'Yizu Tribal Integration' building chain. Essentially these buildings represent migration of the Nanman tribes into Han territory, in turn allowing for the recruitment of regular Nanman military units. It is an interesting dynamic that gives at least a small bit of realism to the mod, at least in terms of the era's "culture clash."

    And finally I am going to talk about the new Fortified Passes. But first, what are fortified passes? Basically they are fortifications found within strategic mountain passes, which are primarily located in north, central, and western China. Most were a part or an extension of the defensive system of the Great Wall but, unlike the majority of the Great Wall, these fortification were made of stone and brick as opposed to earthen mounds. In previous versions these Fortified Pass settlements were just villages but, once they got too much population and you upgraded them, then they were no longer strategic defensive fortifications. They were then changed to be unable to upgrade in size, and were simply placeholders until we could use IWTE to make proper fortifications. Unfortunately, with a small team and limited resources, this has yet to be done. Instead, what we have done is re-established castles as settlement types, with the Fortified Passes all assigned as castles and using a small settlement with brick walls. While this serves the intended purpose of a strategic defensive structure, it is not what we want or the end result. In the coming months when v1.1 is eventually released, and after we get more familiar with IWTE, we will have proper mountain pass fortifications as a part of the mod.

    26 March 2018 Update

    Only... 3 1/2 years since the last update. Not too shabby. Long-story-short: life got in the way, but things now are much, much, much better than ever. I'm not returning to modding, per se, although I am going to get out an update very soon. Essentially this update will have some minor gameplay/UI fixes, possibly a minor graphical upgrade, although the majority of it will be the faction missions for the Sun Clan.

    On the topic of faction missions, specifically for the Liu, Cao, and Sun clans, I should make a comment about them. While performing the missions it may be very tempting to conquer settlements (and possibly destroy factions) not specified in the mission you are conducting, I would strongly advise against it. Simple reason is that it can either break the mission script entirely or not allow you to proceed with the next mission. If we use Liu Bei's missions as an example, once you take Xin Ye and have Liu Bei in Xin Ye's region (as instructed in the first mission) the following turn the mission will update, at which point it tells you to make Xin Ye your capital and allow your starting (Xu province) settlements to rebel. As opposed to allowing them to rebel, you can always sell them. Regardless, the next stage of the mission (defeating Jingzhou faction) will not update if you still retain your original starting (Xu province) settlements. Another example would be if you are tasked to conquer settlement A, but instead conquer settlements B, C, and D before capturing settlement A. You could break the script, meaning it will never advance or fire spawns correctly or triggers an incorrect mission, as a followup mission could require settlement C to be captured or a specific faction to be alive. As I said, I know easy targets to expand your kingdom are extremely tempting, but it would be best to refrain from that, and only conquer settlements and destroy factions as specified in your current mission. And finally, ensure that you read the objectives! Each mission will have objectives clearly labeled at the end of the mission text. Read them. Seriously, read them.
    Last edited by Seether; March 26, 2018 at 11:11 PM.
    Member of the Imperial House of Hader - Under the Benevolent Patronage of y2day
    A Wolf Among Sheep: A Rise of Three Kingdoms AAR

  2. #2

    Default Re: Seether's Gameplay Notes

    Firstly, awesome mod. I have a couple of questions.

    - I love how the trait aspect of generals has been reworked, with skills and masteries and hidden potential and all of that stuff. Will we get at some point some instructions on how thios new system works?

    -Should we still adopt generals that are offered? Playing yesterday I got a couple of offers.

    -Lastly, medieval is kinda infamous when it comes to generals acquiring negative traits by spending time in a city, is that the case in this mod? It seems generals are more important here, it would be a shame to have Cao Cao suddenly get the drunkard or fiscally challenged traits : p

    Thanks. Loving it so far, playing with Heishan in their little mountain fort : )

  3. #3

    Default Re: Seether's Gameplay Notes

    I noticed that Li Jue's faction is missing alot of top officers that they had. Also, Yan Baihu's portrait is used instead of Liu Yao at the faction selection screen. I think this is a bug too, When I was playing as Cao Cao, Cao Ang got killed and then my heir was Xu Huang even though I still had Cao Ren, Cao Hong etc etc still alive.

  4. #4
    Seether's Avatar RoTK Workhorse
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    Default Re: Seether's Gameplay Notes

    Quote Originally Posted by DeVrie View Post
    Firstly, awesome mod. I have a couple of questions.

    - I love how the trait aspect of generals has been reworked, with skills and masteries and hidden potential and all of that stuff. Will we get at some point some instructions on how thios new system works?
    Possibly, although it is a fairly complicated system and there are different variables and triggers for each trait. Writing instructions would probably be more trouble than it's worth.

    -Should we still adopt generals that are offered? Playing yesterday I got a couple of offers.
    That is entirely up to you. You will notice that the adopted character has not traits right away; wait until the following turn and they will be given traits.

    -Lastly, medieval is kinda infamous when it comes to generals acquiring negative traits by spending time in a city, is that the case in this mod? It seems generals are more important here, it would be a shame to have Cao Cao suddenly get the drunkard or fiscally challenged traits : p
    For the most part, vanilla traits like that are not used. From what I have seen, getting negative traits isn't as prevalent as it was in vanilla.

    Thanks. Loving it so far, playing with Heishan in their little mountain fort : )
    Be nice to Yuan Shao

    Quote Originally Posted by jbutton
    I noticed that Li Jue's faction is missing alot of top officers that they had.
    Such as who?

    Also, Yan Baihu's portrait is used instead of Liu Yao at the faction selection screen.
    That was corrected in the latest patch.

    I think this is a bug too, When I was playing as Cao Cao, Cao Ang got killed and then my heir was Xu Huang even though I still had Cao Ren, Cao Hong etc etc still alive.
    That is definitely a bug. I think the issue is that Xu Huang is in a family tree, obviously not the main family tree. I'll have to figure out a workaround for that in a future patch.
    Member of the Imperial House of Hader - Under the Benevolent Patronage of y2day
    A Wolf Among Sheep: A Rise of Three Kingdoms AAR

  5. #5

    Default Re: Seether's Gameplay Notes

    Quote Originally Posted by Seether View Post
    Such as who?
    Hu Zhen, Zhong Yao (Possibly could give a young Zhong Hui too) Zhu Jun, Huangfu Song, Zhang Ji (Though I guess he would be dead in this scenario because Zhang Xiu holds Wancheng a few years earlier than he did.)

    Also is there a way to select you heir like there was in Rome Total war. As Cao Cao and Yuan Shao both wanted to name younger sons as their successors? Is there a way to give a character loyalty to another, such as Taishi Ci to Sun Ce, Zhao Yun to Liu Bei, Zhang Liao to Cao Cao?

  6. #6
    Seether's Avatar RoTK Workhorse
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    Default Re: Seether's Gameplay Notes

    Quote Originally Posted by jbutton
    Hu Zhen, Zhong Yao (Possibly could give a young Zhong Hui too) Zhu Jun, Huangfu Song, Zhang Ji (Though I guess he would be dead in this scenario because Zhang Xiu holds Wancheng a few years earlier than he did.)
    Hu Zhen - Died in 190
    Zhong Yao - never served Li Jue. Served Han Court. In-game serves Emperor Xian
    Zhu Jun - never served Li Jue. Served Han Court. In-game serves Emperor Xian
    Huangfu Song - never served Li Jue. Served Han Court. In-game serves Emperor Xian
    Zhang Ji - Died in 196 but, as you noted, inclusion of Zhang Xiu means he needs to be dead

    Also is there a way to select you heir like there was in Rome Total war. As Cao Cao and Yuan Shao both wanted to name younger sons as their successors?
    No, that is hardcoded in M2TW. I've always been bitter towards CA for changing that from RTW to M2TW... However there are mods that add an ancillary where you can influence who the next (not current) heir will be.

    Is there a way to give a character loyalty to another, such as Taishi Ci to Sun Ce, Zhao Yun to Liu Bei, Zhang Liao to Cao Cao?
    Right now the only way is to bribe. As Sun Ce, I always make sure to bribe Taishi Ci away from Liu Yao
    Last edited by Seether; July 13, 2013 at 01:25 PM.
    Member of the Imperial House of Hader - Under the Benevolent Patronage of y2day
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  7. #7

    Default Re: Seether's Gameplay Notes

    Quote Originally Posted by Seether View Post
    Hu Zhen - Died in 190
    Zhong Yao - never served Li Jue. Served Han Court. In-game serves Emperor Xian
    Zhu Jun - never served Li Jue. Served Han Court. In-game serves Emperor Xian
    Huangfu Song - never served Li Jue. Served Han Court. In-game serves Emperor Xian
    Zhang Ji - Died in 196 but, as you noted, inclusion of Zhang Xiu means he needs to be dead



    No, that is hardcoded in M2TW. I've always been bitter towards CA for changing that from RTW to M2TW... However there are mods that add an ancillary where you can influence who the next (not current) heir will be.



    Right now the only way is to bribe. As Sun Ce, I always make sure to bribe Taishi Ci away from Liu Yao
    Hu Zhen didn't die in 190 historically thats only novel to big up Sun Jian and Cheng Pu. They served Li Jue who held the Emperor but I guess seeing as there is a the Emperor in game thats fine.

    Yeah its so annoying, I don't want Cao Ang as my heir haha, will you be adding Cao Chong to Cao Cao's children? I noticed you had Cao Zhang and his birthdate is unknown, even though Chong wasn't born until 196.

    I can never get him to join! I managed to bribe Zhang Liao now but wanted Gao Shun too, unfortunately I had to kill him

  8. #8
    Seether's Avatar RoTK Workhorse
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    Default Re: Seether's Gameplay Notes

    Each character can only have a maximum of 4 children and one spouse, so Cao Cao was given his eldest son from Lady Liu (Ang), then his three eldest from Lady Bian (Pi, Zhang, Zhi). There just isn't enough room to add Cao Chong.
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  9. #9

    Default Re: Seether's Gameplay Notes

    Ah that sucks, Cao Chong was the best

  10. #10
    Seether's Avatar RoTK Workhorse
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    Default Re: Seether's Gameplay Notes

    Just as a note, but we are currently working on scripted missions for each faction as well as some other fun scripts. When they get included, I will update the OP to give some background on them.
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  11. #11

    Default Re: Seether's Gameplay Notes

    Just a note, Sun Ce is not aggressive what so ever, I made it to 200AD and he hasn't captured any cities

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Seether's Gameplay Notes

    Quote Originally Posted by jbutton View Post
    Just a note, Sun Ce is not aggressive what so ever, I made it to 200AD and he hasn't captured any cities
    I too have noticed that Sun Ce normally does not go after Liu Yao, although I have never seen him not take any cities. Usually he takes at least Chaisang, and sometime Yuzhang as well. We will look at this and see if we can't make the Sun Clan a bit more aggressive.
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    Seether's Avatar RoTK Workhorse
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    Default Re: Seether's Gameplay Notes

    OP Updated:

    19 July Update

    Something that has been brought up over the course of development is the desire for Liu Bei to start out positioned in the western regions of China. This will not happen, as we are basing our positioning of factions on their historic locations in the winter of 194 AD. The problem, obviously, is that Liu Bei will not make it to Yizhou (or Shu, if you will) and establish himself in the region that he is most known for. Many people also want the Sun, Cao, and Liu clans establish dominance over the areas they did historically and recreate, in-game, the Three Kingdoms. Unfortunately such is an impossible task, and it must also be kept in mind that the formation of the Three Kingdoms was a highly complicated process that took roughly forty years and innumerable variables due to individual actions of the people involved. Also once a mod, any mod, starts everything that happens afterwards can vary wildly. You could see Yuan Shao dominate Hebei or the Heishan; Cao Cao could dominate the Central Plains or so could either Lu Bu or Yuan Shu. With mods, you can only recreate history to a point, after that it is up to the player and the AI to determine how things progress.

    But many people still want Liu Bei to establish himself in Shu, and honestly I am one of them, however he will not be there at game start. So what can be done to remedy this? I have already submitted to Gigantus a detailed outline for a series of missions that the player can undertake to accomplish such a task. The missions are, for the most part, accurate as to how Liu Bei went from ruling Xu province, to establishing himself in Jingzhou, and then to Shu. Some things were impossible to recreate, such as Liu Bei serving Yuan Shao and Cao Cao, so I had to be creative and take some liberty in how to get Liu Bei from point A to point B within the confines of the game's mechanics and limitations. If it works as I intend, then players that wish to establish Liu Bei in the land of Shu will be able to do so through a series of missions, with some interesting events along the way. I can't say for certain when these missions will be released in a patch, so keep your eyes peeled for any updates from the Mod team.
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  14. #14
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    Default Re: Seether's Gameplay Notes

    In the south of Luo Yang there is a territory called Di Du own by the rump state of Han dynasty, but my troops cannot get into the territory. Also is there any possibility of getting emperor Xuan as a trait that boosts authority to whoever conquers Luo Yang

    What is this faction about anyway?

    And also for the Nonalignment faction, they had a capital called Penglai, I wonder what their faction leader called...... besides Penglai was suppose to be Mt Fuji in the far eastern lands of Japan.
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  15. #15
    Seether's Avatar RoTK Workhorse
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    Default Re: Seether's Gameplay Notes

    Quote Originally Posted by The excited one View Post
    In the south of Luo Yang there is a territory called Di Du own by the rump state of Han dynasty, but my troops cannot get into the territory. Also is there any possibility of getting emperor Xuan as a trait that boosts authority to whoever conquers Luo Yang

    What is this faction about anyway?
    You would only see this with the toggle_fow cheat. It is simply a settlement to keep the Imperial Han faction alive and can not be reached. We are working on a trait system that has to do with controlling the Emperor, supporting the Han, and usurpation.

    And also for the Nonalignment faction, they had a capital called Penglai, I wonder what their faction leader called...... besides Penglai was suppose to be Mt Fuji in the far eastern lands of Japan.
    You would only see this with the toggle_fow cheat. As above, it is simply a settlement to keep that faction alive and can not be reached. Zuo Ci is the faction leader.
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  16. #16

    Default Re: Seether's Gameplay Notes

    Quote Originally Posted by Seether View Post
    OP Updated:
    Wouldn't Liu Bei's faction becoming a horde do the trick (like the mongols in vanilla, I think)?

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Seether's Gameplay Notes

    We had discussed that (briefly) before, but it won't guarantee the clan ever leaves the east and moves west. More than likely you would keep seeing the Liu Clan staying in the Central Plain. We could have the clan spawn as a horde (after being defeated), but at that point I don't think they would be able to supplant Liu Zhang and take Ba-Shu. In all honesty, you should have the option of getting Liu Bei out west if you play as his clan (like with the upcoming missions), but making sure specific clans take specific regions should not be our focus. We can recreate the situation in China starting in 194, and have follow up events/mission/etc., but after that how the mod progresses and who take what is totally out of our hands, and should remain so.
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  18. #18

    Default Re: Seether's Gameplay Notes

    Maybe you could make some new scenarios like in Romance. For example: Yellow Turban Rebellion, The Coalition, Battle of Guan Du, Battle of Chi Bi, Three Kingdoms etc.

    EDIT: Lol just noticed that my sig is too big
    Last edited by Kong Ming; July 21, 2013 at 04:19 PM.

  19. #19
    Seether's Avatar RoTK Workhorse
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    Default Re: Seether's Gameplay Notes

    I definitely want to do a scenario at the start of the Hanzhong campaign in 217.
    Last edited by Seether; July 21, 2013 at 03:04 PM.
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  20. #20

    Default Re: Seether's Gameplay Notes

    Quote Originally Posted by Seether View Post
    I definitely want to do a scenario at the start of the Hanzhong campaign in 217.
    I agree. At that time Liu Bei had the best guys: Guan Yu, Zhang Fei, Zhao Yun, Ma Chao, Huang Zhong, Wei Yan, Kong Ming, Pang Tong, Fa Zheng and the list goes on
    Last edited by Kong Ming; July 21, 2013 at 04:18 PM.

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