About CA's intentions...

[Bella]

Personally, I think CA is making a superb game in M2TW. But I also think they're setting this one up specifically for the modding community. Let's face it. Not many people actually play plain old vanilla RTW anymore. In fact, I don't know anyone that does at all. Everyone has their favorite mod and plays the hell out of it. Some of us, two and even three mods at a time.

But that's where I think CA's heading with M2TW. They know the vanilla game is only going to last as long as until the first few mods start pouring out from the very talented modding teams in this community. So I guess what I'm saying is don't get too discouraged about certain features that may or may not make it into the final release. Personally, I think CA is setting this game up for our modding community to 'customize and enhance' the game by offering a well-rounded, expandable core game.

As long as the hard-coded restrictions aren't too ridiculous, I'm guessing it won't be long before we start seeing huge campaign maps and tons of redesigned and/or new units/factions created by our modders. After those initial mods are out, then the big boys will start rolling out their full conversions. ie - Medieval Total Realism and the Rome conversion being worked on.

So relax guys. Consider our modding community an invaluable extension of CA's Total War arm. They'll take care of us. I'm sure of it.

[JANOSIK007]

Relax?

Don't kid yourself.

How many full conversion mods have been released in full version?

Chivalry, Napoleon and almost all other major projects reach beta at best. It's getting more and more complicated as the technological gap is widening. It's two years after the release of RTW. How many full mods can you count? The amount of scenarios that mod initiators come up with fragments interest of the fan community and resources that modding community disposes with. And after two years, projects either run out of steam or are shun aside by the community with the release of a new instalment. Rellying on mods to replace the original version and some other person, who has no real incentive except their benevolent interest in the game, to create this mod for you is ludicrous.

Too many people are falling for this lie that mods will make it all right. They are cheating themselves and what is in their best interest as a fan.

[HorseArcher]

As soon as I see or read any official word on the mod-ability of M2TW, I will beleive every word you just wrote. Until then, i will remain sceptical about how far M2TW can be modded or can be modded as much as RTW at all.

[Crusader Invasion]

I still play Vinnila RTW sometimes, I do have Chivalry, Troy, Nepoleonic, and SPQR though.

[RZZZA]

Yeah, Ive seen no indication from CA that they are making MTW2 very mod friendly. They said that RTW would be very open ended and mod friendly, and we later found out that was a lie or half-truth at best, all the important features were still hardcoded. I think we'll see the same thing with MTW2, You'd have to be extremely gullible if you think that they wont hardcode the important features.

[Zenith Darksea]

And just why should we have to mod M2TW? We're paying them for a game after all, and if I have to change it to make it enjoyable then CA has its priorities wrong.

[DougyM]

And just why should we have to mod M2TW? We're paying them for a game after all, and if I have to change it to make it enjoyable then CA has its priorities wrong.

Actualy all it means is that you bought the wrong game.

[The Mongol]

Actualy all it means is that you bought the wrong game.

Bingo! Why do I see so much negativity about CA and the TW series? If you hate the game so much save us the trouble and go find a new game that has the correct red regalia on the English Knight's helmet so you don't have to take your oh so precious time to mod it in.

This ties in with the "Oh god CA is at it again we have to do the work for them". No, you don't have to do the work for CA because they never added it in the first place so stop wording it like you're a godamn saviour to mankind.

One more thing, whats with the dissapointment in the addition of the Aztecs? From what I can see this translates into an entire faction slot and more land space you modders can use so put a sock in it!

Every game has it's flaws and there is some little things I would like to see but the TW series is an incredible experience, there are no other games in the RTS genre that come close to it. A campaign so in depth that you can solely play a TW game for a couple of years with just Singleplayer. Not to mention having thousands of men on screen duking it out. If there is another game that comes close to the TW series in quality, please tell me because from what I've seen TW rules the roost. Mods would be nothing without this fantastic series and you know it.

Don't you worry, I'm going to tear my hair out soon enough.

Sincerely, The Mongol

[RZZZA]

And people who tell you to go buy a different game annoy the crap out of me. We dont want to buy a different game, we like Total War, we complain about CA and the bad features of the Total War games because we want to see it bettered.

Please save your breath if youre preparing to tell someone here to go somewhere else or buy something different. It doesnt add to the discussion at all, its misdirection and its completely irritating.


edit: we should have a Red Herring smiley

[The Mongol]

Sure, I'd like the TW series to be bettered but complaining doesen't help, constructive criticism on the other hand...

[Azai Nagamasa]

God bless Knight_Yellow and The Mongol for telling it how it is. But I'll get back to that. Can't deal with the game's textures or 'lack of realism', then simply look for another game. I'm sure CA doesn't want to cater to people who criticise them for every tiny thing.

In fact, I don't know anyone that does at all.

Well, you now know one: me. I play regular vanilla Rome. Why? While mods are fun, many are flawed, have bugs, are incomplete, and may not be exactly to my tastes. Mods crash ALOT, Vanilla Rome... not so much.

Though the games are moddable, I bought Rome: Total War for Rome: Total War... not Total Realism, not EB, not Chiv (I mean no disrespect to these great modifications). And I'm sure most fans will buy M2:TW for M2:TW, not Medaevil Auctorisio or Ortus Romani. Eh, I guess it's one of those things where it's what you make of it.

And people who tell you to go buy a different game annoy the crap out of me. We dont want to buy a different game, we like Total War, we complain about CA and the bad features of the Total War games because we want to see it bettered.

Really? Here are some quotes from actual members... I fail to see how these comments are for the betterment of Total War:

"Does anyone else agree that the castles from the campaign map look like total *****?"
"Doesn't matter, the AI will suck anyway"
"I'm calling for a boycott of this game!!"

That's not constructive, and honestly, that's what I read alot. I see very few 'suggestions' -- I only read "Uh oh, this little thing/feature... well, I don't like it. CA better fix it or our modders will." I want to hear, "Well, CA could do this/that to make that feature/unit/thing better."

Oh, and RZZZA, I'm not attacking you or anything... just giving you my two cents.

[Kanfoosh]

Why would you think they made the game just so people can mod it? is it because they did not make it exactly the way you wanted it or something?


edited by Archer

please...no flames.

[RZZZA]

Why would you think they made the game just so people can mod it? is it because they did not make it exactly the way you wanted it or something? edited

And im still wondering why everyone thinks MTW was better than RTW which had "overpowered generals", i mean in MTW 1 royal knight destroyed half my army which out-numbered him 500 to one and had every advantrage possible

Ain't this guy a character? I disagree with everything you've said in this thread. People think they made the game to be moddable because they used that as a major selling point for RTW, are we to sue them for false advertising or take them on their word this time around? Logic dictates that as more sequals come out, the features found in previous games should be fleshed out and improved upon. If that doesnt happen, many die hard fans will be very upset with CA. They already scrapped a bunch of genius features found in MTW with RTW, do I have to rattle them all off? If they ignore the great, simplistic features found in previous installments of Total War again this time around, loyalties will be questioned.

Although they have seemed to grasp that video cutscenes from Shogun were a good thing, so perhaps the good ideas of old havent been ignored this time around. We'll just have to wait and see.

and if one unit of royal knights owned you so badly in MTW, perhaps you just suck? (edit: but if youre talking about Jedi Generals, thats an old and well known flaw of MTW. Jedi Generals...ahhh nostalgia....)

[z2ei]

Actually, I'd imagine that the majority of the people that buy the game never mod it.

Anyway, I just think some people have some unreal expectations. Yeah, so Rome wasn't as good as MTW was. It was a whole new engine, however, and not a modified/upgraded one like MTW had. The game's gotten better as it was patched, and after BI in particular.

(CA's taste in skins, however, leaft something to be desired. M2TW looks much better in that department.)

Just my two cents.

[Lord Janos]

Actually, I'd imagine that the majority of the people that buy the game never mod it.

Anyway, I just think some people have some unreal expectations. Yeah, so Rome wasn't as good as MTW was. It was a whole new engine, however, and not a modified/upgraded one like MTW had. The game's gotten better as it was patched, and after BI in particular.

(CA's taste in skins, however, leaft something to be desired. M2TW looks much better in that department.)

Just my two cents.

I have to agree. Everyone (i mean everyone) that i know in person who plays Rome or any other Total War game, often stares at me blankly when i say, "So, which mod do you like best? Total Realism or SPQR?" Most of my friends who are into computer games have got at least Rome, and a lot have Shogun and Medieval as well. They have never even heard of the most famous mods, often play UNPATCHED versions of the games, and still play to this day. My girlfriend's brother, as an example, i used to always find (until he recently got Battle for Middle Earth II) playing a vanilla Rome battle, or studying the campaign map.

So what? Well, i'm the only one of my friends and others who i know who play the games who frequents messageboards and follows games which i am interested in intently. I'm one of the only ones who bothers to look for mods, or who bothers to talk with other members of the fanbase online regarding the games. Out of all 20+ people who i know personally who play RTW, i am the only one who currently owns a mod for the game. Now maybe that's just me and my friends, but seriously, if you take into account the number of people who go online, download mods, and who actively talk about games on messageboards, we are a small percentage of the total fanbase. Most of the customers who buy video games will never visit messageboards or have any idea of the available mods. Therefore, most of the fanbase will not download mods. They buy the original game for the original game - and often unpatched.

If the games are so bad (they do have flaws, and Rome wasn't great, but they're still good games), and are only acceptable to play once modded, then how come the majority of the fanbase will play it unmodded, and still love the games?

[RZZZA]

Uhh...because people are stupid? Thats why.

Teach them to mod, and they will.

[Lord Janos]

Uhh...because people are stupid? Thats why.

Teach them to mod, and they will.

Right, so because someone enjoys something, that makes them stupid? I agree that mods do improve on a game - that is the whole point of them after all. That isn't the point though. The point is, do CA need to aim to make the game extremely moddable? Ideally, for those like ourselves, yes they would be brilliant. However, for their greater market? They simply don't need to. Now, i'm not defending lazy developing, or championing lack of modability (is that a word?!) in M2TW. However, the whole thread is about CA's intentions regarding their future products. Their intentions i believe, apart from making money, are also to please their greater audience. The greater audience do not use mods.

I enjoy vanilla Rome as well. Not as much as vanilla Medieval or Shogun, but i do enjoy it. Does that make me stupid? I personally love the Total War games, even if they had no mods. Rome will be the perfect stepping stone to greater, better games due to its new engine being able to be updated. I am hoping that the improved combat system and updated campaign map will make for an incredible vanilla game in M2TW. I will be purchasing M2TW for vanilla, and after i get bored of vanilla (if i do, rather), then i will try some mods. Bear in mind that a lot of people don't even patch their games. For these reasons, i see no reason to doubt CA's intentions when developing M2TW, because their greater audience WON'T use mods. Therefore, they will be trying (i hope) to create the very best game possible in the time allowed to them. They are businessmen, yes, but why would anyone go into video game developing if they didn't have a passion for video games or gaming in the first place? They want to make a good game as much as the fans want to play a good game. They also need to make good games if they want to feed their families and hold down a job in the future.

[RZZZA]

Perhaps stupid wasn't the word to use, ignorant should have been the word. People are ignorant, thats why mods arent more popular. Of course if you play both vanilla AND mods and simply prefer vanilla, you arent ignorant, so it doesnt apply to you. But the people out there who dont know that mods exist, are ignorant, and should be enlightened. How would you feel if you suddenly realized that you only explored aproxximately 50% of that game you bought a couple of years ago? Thats exactly the predicament that people who only play vanilla and dont know about mods find themselves in. Only they dont know it, and ignorance is bliss. Someone should take some time out of their day and teach those ignorant fools about a little thing called "looking up info about the game youre prepared to spend money on". If people did that, they'd realize that they are only taking advantage of 50% of the game they paid for.

The point is, do CA need to aim to make the game extremely moddable? Ideally, for those like ourselves, yes they would be brilliant. However, for their greater market? They simply don't need to.

I find it frustrating that devs like CA aim for the lowest common denominater out there when theyre developing their games. They aim for the broadest (i.e. the dumbest, the simplest, the mainstream) market and end up having to water their games down for the average Joe who's too ignorant (ah screw political correctness...) too STUPID to know that he just bought a game whose replay value is through the roof thanks to community mods. I'd rather the devs didnt cater to the simpleton, casual gamers out there...or as I call them, the scum of the earth.

[Kanfoosh]

And im still wondering why everyone thinks MTW was better than RTW which had "overpowered generals", i mean in MTW 1 royal knight destroyed half my army which out-numbered him 500 to one and had every advantrage possible

[The Lord Of Dance]

And im still wondering why everyone thinks MTW was better than RTW which had "overpowered generals", i mean in MTW 1 royal knight destroyed half my army which out-numbered him 500 to one and had every advantrage possible

I don't believe you.