How To Use Casse Chariots?

[Brihentin13]

Does anyone understand the point of Casse Cidaihn? They are very difficult to find a legitimate use for in combat. I usually just try to keep them out of the way. If I do feel like risking them I just use them a skirmishers, throwing their pitiful little rain of paper javelins. They are listed as "heavy cavalry" which I suppose is true if you look at them in terms of weight, but in function they are just a crappier Leuce Epos. Am I just doing this wrong? The uselessness of these chariots makes the Casse pretty inferior to the other Celtic Factions, at least IMO.

[Boriak]

Since chariots find it very difficult to maneouvre, let alone when they are standing still, they are best to be used against lose infantry through which they can plow through, therefore no need to turn. I think they can also be used against tighter infantry; while they might not cause many casualties, they will disrupt the enemy's formation, the way elephants do (I've just started using elephants as a charge unit recently after five years of playing this mod - love the fact that I can learn something new after this time! ).

I confess I haven't used the Celtic chariots much, mainly because I don't play with Casse often. Make some tests with pushing through the enemy's ranks. I know eastern chariots (Pontos, Seleucids) are great against heavy cavalry but those chariots have blades on the sides so I will assume the Celtic chariots are not as good.

If they fail as chargers or pushers, there is always this left:

Attributes: Frightens infantry, Give bonus to nearby troop

In other words, use them as I've used elephants so far: place them behind your main infantry line (if you even have one; 'barbarians' tend to fight differently). This way they support your own troops and also cause morale drop when the enemy comes closer. But the best advice I can give you is: experiment with them and see what happens. You might be surprised as I've been with elephants.

[Petite Wolf]

They have a couple uses.

1) They absolutely murder enemy light cavalry. I'm not sure about heavier cavalry, but light cavalry melts like snow in a desert to them.
2) They are amazing for disrupting enemy lines and their "frighten enemy infantry" trait makes it easy to break enemy infantry.

One major thing to remember is that if they are in combat NEVER let them stop moving. If they stop moving they get bogged down and enemy infantry will just destroy them, but keep them moving and they are deadly. A great use I've found for them is taking them to the flank of the enemy line after it has engaged your own and running them right down the line. Not hitting them from behind, but going to one side of their line and double clicking on the unit on the other side of that line so that they ride through the entire line. What this does is cause absolute havoc, destroys the enemy formation and routs them. If they don't route - there's no guarantee, of course - then it severely breaks up their formation, allowing your own units to better kill them. The trick, of course, is to keep them moving, which quite often means constantly issuing attack orders so they continually move.

They're one of those units that is amazing if used properly but atrocious if used even slightly incorrectly. I'd also advise being extremely careful with your general as chariot generals tend to die extremely quickly in bad situations. Where cavalry generals will quite often be one of the last ones in the unit left, chariot generals can't be relied upon to be one of the last survivors in their unit. They're definitely still very usable and I do make quite good use of them early on, but you just need to be extra careful with them.

[Boriak]

They're one of those units that is amazing if used properly but atrocious if used even slightly incorrectly.

Pretty much all units are like that. Even Akontistai or Toxotai can be absolutely deadly if used right.

[Brihentin13]

Oh. That makes much more sense then what I was doing. Thanks. I've also discovered that you should keep chariots far, far, far away from trees. They tend to get hilariously stuck.

[Petite Wolf]

Pretty much all units are like that. Even Akontistai or Toxotai can be absolutely deadly if used right.

Oh I know all units are like that to some extent, but there are some that are more so like that than most. Chariots, for example, can get really bad really quickly with even a single misstep. They die so easily if mismanaged that you need to be extremely careful. Letting them get stationary in combat is a perfect example. They get stationary and next thing you know they're all gone.

Oh. That makes much more sense then what I was doing. Thanks. I've also discovered that you should keep chariots far, far, far away from trees. They tend to get hilariously stuck.

Also, yes this is very true. In fact, try to avoid any and all obstacles that aren't units as their pathing is so terrible that they get terribly stuck. Cities are a great example. Chariots are the most derptastic unit EVER in settlements and it is a terrible idea to bring them in there at all. The only time I ever do is when the enemy is pushed back just about to their square and I can maneuver them safely in to position without fear of enemy units getting in the way.

[Boriak]

I love Pontic chariots. They make minced meat out of any cavalry, the heavier the better. Just don't throw them against skirmisher cavalry because they will get javelined.

Which reminds me: there's a Pontic campaign somewhere that could use some attention...

[athanaric]

A great use I've found for them is taking them to the flank of the enemy line after it has engaged your own and running them right down the line. Not hitting them from behind, but going to one side of their line and double clicking on the unit on the other side of that line so that they ride through the entire line. What this does is cause absolute havoc, destroys the enemy formation and routs them. If they don't route - there's no guarantee, of course - then it severely breaks up their formation, allowing your own units to better kill them. The trick, of course, is to keep them moving, which quite often means constantly issuing attack orders so they continually move.

Incidentally, that's the exact way you should use elephants as well.

They're one of those units that is amazing if used properly but atrocious if used even slightly incorrectly. I'd also advise being extremely careful with your general as chariot generals tend to die extremely quickly in bad situations. Where cavalry generals will quite often be one of the last ones in the unit left, chariot generals can't be relied upon to be one of the last survivors in their unit. They're definitely still very usable and I do make quite good use of them early on, but you just need to be extra careful with them.

All true and again, this also applies to elephant generals (in EB, you'll only encounter those in the form of Indian Eleutheroi).

Also, yes this is very true. In fact, try to avoid any and all obstacles that aren't units as their pathing is so terrible that they get terribly stuck. Cities are a great example. Chariots are the most derptastic unit EVER in settlements and it is a terrible idea to bring them in there at all. The only time I ever do is when the enemy is pushed back just about to their square and I can maneuver them safely in to position without fear of enemy units getting in the way.

Cities and units moving in them are just terribly bugged in general. Although I've actually managed to kill units in cities with my chariots.

I love Pontic chariots. They make minced meat out of any cavalry, the heavier the better. Just don't throw them against skirmisher cavalry because they will get javelined.

Not if you catch them fast enough. Scythed chariots are also much better at catching routers than Celtic chariots. The thing to remember is, never send them out against a superior force without support, preferrably missile cavalry.

[Titus Marcellus Scato]

Chariots are almost useless at fighting inside towns. If they are caught by enemy infantry in a narrow street or the town square, they are toast. In towns, I use my chariots only behind a screen of heavy infantry, for morale purposes.

I sometimes do chariot-only raids on enemy towns, using only four of five of my family members in their chariots, and bringing no infantry at all. I seige a town, end the turn and then just skirmish with the enemy army when it sallies out. Good way to kill a few of the enemy, and since your family members regenerate, it's quite low risk for you provided you avoid melee. Repeated enough times, an enemy garrison can be worn down this way and it becomes weaker and more vulnerable to an infantry assault.

[athanaric]

I tend to place them behind my infantry during assaults, where they can lob javelins and lower the enemy's morale. Works well in early campaign against towns with wooden palisades. It's not spectacular, but pretty much the only way of using them in sieges without risking your generals' lives.

[Petite Wolf]

When there isn't enough room to maneuver well with them I tend to do the same. The Casse are actually the reason I bumped my battle difficulty up to Hard. Uridusios (SP) plus a unit of CHariots behind the main line equaled VERY quick routing of enemies on Medium.

[Cyclops]

Borlak and Athanaric have it pretty much covered, Casse chariots are flank frighteners, but too brittle to go toe-to-toe with most units. The trick is the keep them moving so they disrupt and scare the maximum number of enemies without getting bogged down and shattered themselves (which happens fairly quickly if you take your eye off them). Sitting them behind the line as javelin support for heavies is such a low return for cost, but the only way to preserve them in slugfests.

[Petite Wolf]

I wouldn't say sitting them behind the line is the only way to preserve them in slugfests. They're just a unit that requires a lot of micromanagement, which means that you need to constantly be keeping an eye on them. But that goes for just about all units. The only difference is how much micromanagement and babysitting they require. The better thing to do with them, I think, rather than just sitting them behind the line, would be to first take out any enemy cavalry, then any ranged units - remember to be careful against skirmishers as they get a bonus versus chariots, and I've actually had a unit of chariots be beaten by Immanae (SP) before because I wasn't careful - and once anyone who could do any damage to them is either gone or engaged with your infantry, have fun sitting them right behind the enemy line. But then again that is MUCH easier said than done.

[Cyclops]

... I've actually had a unit of chariots be beaten by Immanae (SP) before because I wasn't careful -...

Been there my brother. I lost 4 FM BG chariots to the skirmisher raiders that attack Casse (when you build roads? IIRC that's the trigger) in exactly that fashion. Game over on turn 5 or 6. [/shameface]

[athanaric]

Been there my brother. I lost 4 FM BG chariots to the skirmisher raiders that attack Casse (when you build roads? IIRC that's the trigger) in exactly that fashion. Game over on turn 5 or 6. [/shameface]

You shoulda kept those swordsmen.

[Boriak]

Next time I play Casse, I will try to use the path designation marks to make my chariots take a wide circle around the enemy and attack him from the sides. If the chariots are on skirmish mode, maybe they could draw the enemy units out of the main line to pursue them. If not, they will at least get some hits from the flanks with their javelins. We'll see.

[Petite Wolf]

Been there my brother. I lost 4 FM BG chariots to the skirmisher raiders that attack Casse (when you build roads? IIRC that's the trigger) in exactly that fashion. Game over on turn 5 or 6. [/shameface]

Sister*

That sucks >.<. It's the reason why I choose the aggressive option whenever playing the Casse. I don't mind going in to debt in the first few turns if it means I get out enough units to be aggressive from the beginning.

Next time I play Casse, I will try to use the path designation marks to make my chariots take a wide circle around the enemy and attack him from the sides. If the chariots are on skirmish mode, maybe they could draw the enemy units out of the main line to pursue them. If not, they will at least get some hits from the flanks with their javelins. We'll see.

Definitely a good choice ^_^. Experimenting in general is always fun. You never know what new uses for units you may discover.

[Petite Wolf]

Ah, the ever alluring call of that oh so shiny, oh so golden money. Its siren song simply can not be ignored.

[Boriak]

Yep, people can get greedy over imaginary money.

[Killzone_040]

Yep, people can get greedy over imaginary money.

Only the imaginary, uh