Calvary Charge's

[Hummer]

I have a question regarding cavalry charges and I suppose this doesn't just refer to EB but also RTW, M2 and most CA titles etc..... But of course EB is the game I play and am most interested in though, since EBII is using M2, the explanation's will be useful there too. And I'm blathering now, so to get to the point.

Let's suppose I have a unit of cavalry with these stats.

attack: 12
defence: 20
charge: 4

When charging correctly, what exactly does the charge do? I have always assumed this would just inflate the attack number for charges only but would be have no effect in melee.

So...

Charging

attack(with charge factored in): 12 + 4 = 16
defence: 20

Melee

attack: 12
defence:20

Is this assumption correct?
Please explain if it works in an entirely different manner. And what exactly are the requirements to getting the charge implemented correctly to the unit? Have to be at a full run??.... In some situations cavalry don't charge effectively but appear to just run into a unit and engage in melee immediately (more prevalent in M2, hopefully not in EBII). Is this because I am not using/preparing the charge correctly? Is there a proper procedure? Like having the unit facing the correct way, walking before running the unit??... etc...

I recall reading a thread on here(or on the tw.org forums, can't remember) detailing the best way to use a cavalry charge effectively. Can anyone link or copy the explanation or provide your own?
I know, I have played M1 plus Viking, M2-Kingdoms, RTW vanilla - plus BI, Empire, Shogun 2 plus Shogun 2-Fall and currently play EB since stumbling on it this last year. No idea it existed until 1 year ago. I should know these things about cavalry charges... But the truth is, I have always been able to fumble myself through each campaign successfully without learning every intricate little detail.
By the way, EB is by far the best TW title I have ever played even though it's not a TW title really. I look forward to EBII with great anticipation... And I will patiently wait until it is released without complaining about a release date. Go EBII mod team!

Thanks

[Boriak]

Hm, I usually don't calculate the charge bonus this way. All I check is how much the charge bonus is. If the number is below 30, then that cavalry unit is not used as outright shock troops. Use them for fights against cavalry and for mopping up routers. Most light horse-archers from the East are like that and also everything similar to the Greek Medium Cavalry, basically any units that holds their spears against their shoulders.

Then there are those units who hold their spears upright as they ride and lower them below the horse's head as they charge. Those units all have charge bonus 30 or above, starting with Leuce Epos and similar. It's not a very big difference against the bonus of 27 of Greek Cavalry but the difference is amazing.

The main question isn't how big a bonus they get, it's how the spear is held before and during a charge. Held against the shoulder -> bad. Held upright -> good.

[Petite Wolf]

Generally speaking it is a good thing to make sure your cavalry are stationary and facing the enemy before they charge, and yes a run up does help. Charging from a short distance gives them very little time to build speed, which can mean a worse charge. Whether they are charging up hill or down hill also needs to be taking in to account. I also have a habit of simply clicking once and then hitting 'R' to toggle run. I'm not sure if it has any effect, though.

[Boriak]

Generally speaking it is a good thing to make sure your cavalry are stationary and facing the enemy before they charge, and yes a run up does help. Charging from a short distance gives them very little time to build speed, which can mean a worse charge. Whether they are charging up hill or down hill also needs to be taking in to account. I also have a habit of simply clicking once and then hitting 'R' to toggle run. I'm not sure if it has any effect, though.

Those are more technicalities. If your cavalry is rested, all this is not so important. But yes, you do have to take all of that into account in order to execute a SUCCESSFUL charge. The best way to find that out is through practice. Even now I sometimes get crappy charges. IMPORTANT: do not try to charge in the city centre if the result of your battle depends on it. Practice charging in the city on less important battles becauce it rarely works the way you want it. It only works on huge plazas and not always.

In essence: don't charge with Exhausted cavalry. This means you don't run them around through the entire battle but have them walk somewhere and wait there. Of course then the problem is they might get attacked so keep an eye on them. Using patches of forests to hide them there is an elegant way to solve this problem but of course you need trees to do it.

[Petite Wolf]

Those are more technicalities. If your cavalry is rested, all this is not so important. But yes, you do have to take all of that into account in order to execute a SUCCESSFUL charge. The best way to find that out is through practice. Even now I sometimes get crappy charges. IMPORTANT: do not try to charge in the city centre if the result of your battle depends on it. Practice charging in the city on less important battles becauce it rarely works the way you want it. It only works on huge plazas and not always.

In essence: don't charge with Exhausted cavalry. This means you don't run them around through the entire battle but have them walk somewhere and wait there. Of course then the problem is they might get attacked so keep an eye on them. Using patches of forests to hide them there is an elegant way to solve this problem but of course you need trees to do it.

Pretty much spot on. I have a major problem when it comes to explaining things, generally. I understand how cavalry management works very well, but struggle to explain it because I am so used to it that I forget a lot of aspects of it when explaining.

[acci_dent]

Also charging a unit that is running away (but not broken) almost never works, hit them from the direction they're running if you can.

[Boriak]

Also charging a unit that is running away (but not broken) almost never works, hit them from the direction they're running if you can.

True. You can only charge at units that are holding still or coming towards you. Problem is if they are turned towards you, your cavalry will suffer. Attack a unit that is engaged with your infantry - in the back or flanks. As soon as the charge is over (see their unit info), pull them out and form them up for another charge. When their morale or/and numbers get low (see unit info), I tend to charge my cavalry in holding the Alt button so they switch to their secondaries the moment the charge is over and I don't pull them out. At that point, adding additional pressure works better than maneouvering for another charge.

[Suite]

I have no source to proof the following but I started recently a new campaign as the Aedui and am on my way through Northern Italy. Getting the full charge with Brihentin is therefore important so I spend a lot of time on cavalry maneuvering. However, I almost never get any impact whatsoever if I charge an infantry unit (read: Pedites Extraordinarii), when they charge the assaulting Brihentin of mine. Both charges seem completely negated and a few seconds after that, the infantry has the upper hand. Has somebody experienced this as well and/or is there an explanation? I think, it works differently in the engine of Medieval II but that is reserved for EB2.

On a side note: Especially the large plazas in the Romani style are difficult in a way, that units seem to follow invisible ways there instead of using the whole plaza as a open field, so thats another thing to keep in mind when using heavy cavalry in cities.

[Boriak]

I imagine braced or advancing infantry are more resilient to a cavalry charge, particularly if the cavalry is light and infantry heavy. But I think a charge should still work, just not as effectively as when your enemy is showing his back to the charge.

[Petite Wolf]

As Boriak said, the charge still works, it is just not as effective. I'd recommend avoiding charging head-on in to the front of enemy infantry unless you're certain you can roll over them completely. For example, extremely heavy cavalry against light infantry.