Dear CA team, Naval Combat: Can you please answer some of our questions?
Naval combat is looking to become a very important part of warfare in Rome 2, what with the combined battles, open sea battles, port sieges, etc. However, we seem to know very little about it, despite the continued dialogue in this forum, as well as the official one. We, the people who enjoy naval combat and who are looking forward to smashing ships to pieces, would like to know a bit more, if you are so kind.
First, here's what we know so far:
- There will be mixed land and sea battles, port/siege battles, as well as open sea battles.
- Navies will have different stances - raiding, double speed, normal, patrol
- Ships will be able to disembark their crew in order to assist in land battles.
- Different ship variants with regards to the crew and equipment - some for pure boarding and assault, some equipped with artillery, some with missile troops. For example there is a missile pentere, artillery pentere and possibly assault pentere.
- Bigger ships may feature multiple artillery engines(screens from Carthage show ships with two onagers)
- Armies can build their own transports but are supposed to be weak so the player will have to escort them with regular warships.
- Depending on the size of the ships, some units will have multiple ships per unit.(in the E3 video Assault Quadreme and Missile Pentere have 2 ships per unit)
- There won't be rowers, similar to ETW galleys and Shogun 2 ships.
- The UI does not have the rotation and direction dials, as well as the speed dials of previous titles like NTW. It's possible to "walk" and "run" via the movement button, but will it be able to get to "ramming speed!" or "cruising speed"? Will ships be able to stop(the anchor from NTW) by backing oars until their speed is 0?
As usual, the information provided fueled the speculations and theories, ranging from gloomy pessimism to bubbling optimism. It would be nice to have some of our questions answered and theories proved or disproved. To begin:
**Since the beginning of the thread some more information has been provided by people who have played the demo at E3 and Rezzed and through other sources. These are unofficial answers as well as official answers.**
- Do "port/siege battles" mean that the player/AI will be able to capture coastal cities like Alexandria by attacking the port for example? - Yes. Confrimed during the Shireknight Interview with CA.
- Will there be defense against attacks of the harbour?(for example chain barrier across the harbour entrance). If so how can it be defeated?(destruction of harbor towers, ramming the chain, etc.)
- Will there be advantages to fighting a fleet that is in raiding/double speed stance? For example a raiding fleet starts widely separated, double-speed stance has your rowers tired and in consequence ships are slower...
- While we're at it, will oar-driven ships suffer from fatigue of their rowers, will that fatigue be present in the above-deck crew as well?
- How detailed is the Damage model? Is it possible to smash the enemy's oars like it was possible to target the enemy sails in NTW and if so are there counter-tactics to that, like retracting oars? From the stream of the live presentation of Rome 2 at Rezzed, it seems it will not be possible - Al Bickham's Octere scraped by a roman Quadreme without any visual damage to the oars of either ship.
- We have second-hand information that some issues with naval combat in Shogun 2 have been corrected. For example the pathfinding issues, mostly visible during boarding. Will other issues like the FOTS AI planting its ships at the edge of the map be resolved?
- Will it be easier to board enemy ships, compared to previous titles? Will boarding be restricted to some positions, or it will be possible to board an enemy ship after ramming her head-on?(for those who don't know, in English vessels are considered feminine. Probably because they're strong-willed and difficult to master.
) Answer by Hardwaremaster: I can answer this one, and Ive answered it a few times in my AAR. The boarding was very fluid, I had a ships crew board another through the front till the ship was close enough to be boarded elseware. Worked pretty well, almost felt like the men had some intelligence. Answer by Mackles: The boarding mechanic feels very fluid, ramming as well. You saw some of it in the Livestream, but nothing compares to ordering your men to ram and board the enemy ship, then realising that their artillery has just set the middle of your ship on fire and men are jumping over the sides! Confirmed from the live gameplay by Al Bickham.
- How will naval recruitment work? We know that a unit can use one class(Pentere for example) but have different crews, equipment and even different number of ships per unit. How will the player decide to recruit an assault Quinquereme or an artillery Quinquereme?
- Since ramming and boarding seem to be combined, if the player rams a ship will he be able to back oars and disengage before a boarding occurs? How will that work? Answer by Shireknight: Naval actions are fast and furious, if you ram an enemy ship, as soon as it hits it automatically starts reversing again ready for you to ram the enemy again if you want to.
- Does ramming cause damage in percentage of ship integrity or it destroys the ship? Is ram damage single effect or does it deliver Damage Over Time? In other words if I ram a ship will that ship sink no matter what or the damage can be repaired?
- How do boarding and ramming function with multiple-ship units? For example if my Assault Quadreme(two ships) attacks the Octere flagship of the enemy will both ships try to ram the octere in the same spot or maneuver to attack from both sides? What happens if a single-ship unit decides to board a multiple-ship one?
- How do transport ships work? Will they be present in naval engagements(between an escorting fleet and an intercepting one)? Apparently the "assault quadreme" unit is the transport ship we have seen so far. They have a fighting crew of 120 per two ships, but when they disembark additional 20 men per ship land, to form an ordinaly 160 legionary cohort.
- If they are present in a battle, will they be a viable threat for dedicated warships? Assuming the "Assault ship" configuration is the transport ship, then yes, the transport ships are a serious threat due to the fact that they can board the enemy and ram him, and also due to the fact that there are two ships per unit.
- If for some reason transport ships are not present in battles, how will the outcome of a battle when a transport fleet is intercepted be decided?
- How will transport ships that carry non-infantry units(cavalry, elephants, war dogs, siege engines) be handled?
- Will it be possible to board another ship with a transport ship? Again, assuming the transport ship is the "assault ship" units seen so far, that's affirmative.
- If the player has an army carried aboard transports, can he/she attack a city without disembarking? Apparently yes, judging from the answers of 12. and 1.
- Can war fleets put cities under siege or it will be a naval blockade? If the player is besieging a coastal city, will he need a fleet as well as land army in order to conduct a successful siege?
- Assuming a big ship like an Octere or Decere has artillery, will the crew be composed of "gunners" only or will there be marines as well? Will the small towers seen on ships be manned?
- How will campaign sea regions work? How do you control them? Can multiple fleets stay in them without fighting? If a fleet belonging to a neutral faction enters a region of the player's control, will they need access first? What if two factions have a port on the same sea region, do they have to fight to get out of it?
- What ships will cultures like the Celtic or the Germanic have? Is it possible to describe them, or even better, screenshot them?
- Compared to previous games, what will be the speed of naval combat? Answer by Shireknight: After playing Shogun 2 I couldn't believe how responsive the ships in Rome II are, you would think that with Shogun 2 being set some 1500 years in the future the ships would be faster and more manoeuvrable and that the ships in Rome II would be dull and boring but no it's the total opposite. Because they are powered by rowers they are fast and quickly react to all orders given to them, they can turn really quickly and build up a fast rate of knots and get to ramming speed in a short space of time. Naval actions are fast and furious.
- Will the player/AI be able to reembark the ships after landing the crew? Will it be possible to embark the ship with another unit - for example assault quadreme(crew 120) being crewed by a normal 160-men legionary cohort? Answer by Shireknight: Likewise when your men land on the coast they don't dawdle, the ships beach themselves and instantly the men are jumping onto the sand, once the men are off the ship I did notice you have the option to re-board them again however I never tested that.
- The E3 video showed that the crews of most naval units shown have identical stats to land units, identical names and even descriptions. Does that mean that these crews will be identical to land units? For example, if the crew of the assault quadreme has landed, suffered casualties, can it be refilled with a transfer from a normal land legionary cohort?
- Can navies attack armies on the coast and vise versa? Confirmed in the Shireknight interview: "There is however one occasion where this rule will be bent slightly and that's when it comes to fleets being involved. If an army is fighting a battle close to the coast but not ON the coast and a fleet is close enough to support one of those armies then the game engine may introduce a coastline into that battlefield just to bring those ships into the battle- this is done for obvious game play purposes which I think we can all agree makes total sense."
- Will the naval AI be more efficient than in previous titles: able to ram, able to board really? Answer by Hardwaremaster: Having played the battle 4 times, I saw a number of interesting things being done by the AI. Some of which seemed scripted, others were obviously not. Efficient isn't a good word at all to explain how the AI works. But rather is it "reactive". Based on what I saw of the unscripted elements I would say its roughly as capable as S2's, but perhaps a bit more witty. It appears it will follow the TW methodology, every title the AI improves.
- Is it possible to save members of sinking ships and most of all transport ships or do they all die?
- In the E3 video, I heard the rowers shouts when they row (nice feature!), will we heard them shout when the ship sink too?
- Are there different types of ramming animations?
- Are there some factions that will not have any naval units (for example germans or iceni or scythians), even though they may rule a region with a coastal city?
This thread at the official forum.
If you have more questions, please post them, they will be added to the OP.
This is a topic about naval combat and warfare only. Any other posts will be considered off-topic, regarded and reported as such. In other words, please behave.
If you care about this topic, bumping the thread is allowed and might have to be encouraged.
Credit for the creation of the thread goes mostly to SamueleD, I lack experience with Shogun 2 naval warfare and unfortunately didn't have the time to dig up more information. If we do find more info, it will be added to the list of known so far. You're free to add any information you think/know is missing from the list, it will be duly added.
edit: added Panzerschreck's questions.
update: added some official and unofficial responses.
Originally Posted by Hibernicus II
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