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Thread: Paeninsula Italica II - Version 0.97

  1. #121
    MatVego's Avatar Civis
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    Default Re: Paeninsula Italica II - Version 0.97

    download links don't work

  2. #122

    Default Re: Paeninsula Italica II - Version 0.97


    Mundus Bellicus - TWC - ModDB - Discord - Steam
    ~ Patronized by Gaius Baltar, son of the Great Family of imb39, of the House of Garbarsardar, of the Noble House of Wilpuri.

  3. #123
    MatVego's Avatar Civis
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    Default Re: Paeninsula Italica II - Version 0.97

    whether in this version the highlighting button in battle mod is repaired? Or is there a shortcut that will allow highlight my and my enemy army?

  4. #124
    Yerevan's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: Paeninsula Italica II - Version 0.97

    Hello. This is exactly the kind of mod I was looking for at the moment. A limited theatre that would bring more precise/realistic strategic gameplay.


    I'm eager to test it !
    " Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the War Room! "

  5. #125
    Stath's's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: Paeninsula Italica II - Version 0.97

    How is it going?


  6. #126

    Default Re: Paeninsula Italica II - Version 0.97

    Wow! Thanks for this. I'd not been following the mod since I thought nothing had happened...yet. I haven't seen an announcement. Shouldn't this forum be now moved up into with the regular ones? Maybe you have to request it, or maybe you're still beta testing and don't want to get hammered by lots of players?

    I plan on combing through the traits and ancillaries and buildings to look at how you handled the historical parts of it, and can't wait to play some custom battles.

    EDIT: I don't know who coded your EDCT, but he/she was pretty smart. I've never come across someone else who's thought about the effect of noble wifes passing along helpful and harmful traits on to the children except through Princesses. That's actually something I'm working on, so as I read through it, I am deeply impressed.

    I also was impressed that you've added traits for being a follower of a particular god, as that's something I was also going to do in De Bello Mundi. I've looked at how to use amplify religion and not declare a religion for each temple, as a way to have multiple temples within a settlement. Then specifically telling the player that if their WifeIsBarren, sending their named character to a nearby temple of Juno to help reverse it.

    I'm also trying to remove as many ancillaries as possible, and use traits instead, something that your mod team member did with political titles with levels as traits. Very good.

    It's equally very intelligent to use CharacterAge to alter the attributes of characters. I was going to make my younger character more apt to be rash or impulsive, but handle injuries or illness better. That CharacterAge is ideal to prevent high charm princesses who manage to hang around until a much higher age to lose their charm too. Or it can alter HP or movement rates as many people gain weight or aren't as active as they age.

    But, your vice traits can become overwhelming really quickly by having other negative traits. Have you thought about CharacterAge helping to do a reset? That's like being older and wiser from common sense. What I'm doing is a chance of the character being Upright 1 20 when Character Age is in their thirties as the character has a 20% chance of reflecting upon their vice, because in the vanilla game all vices were self-perpetuating. Upright is almost a universal antitrait for vices with what I'm working on. That ratches up by 20% each decade to hopefully reverse some negative vices (Corrupt, Girls, Drink, etc) as the character gets older so eventually a 100% chance of being Upright and reversing a trait before death. The reversal of vices is important as it might result in his offspring getting vices too, so rapidly raising the vice intensity can result in a no going back level, and dooming generations to his folly.

    I'm actually looking through the Myers Brigg personality test and some others to try to create some more complex EDCT with multiple trait levels because it might create more logic to the system and remove inconsistent behavior.

    Well done!

    Since you've gone to all of that trouble, you might want to give some of your married characters who should have WifeIs traits in the descr_strat so right away you're setting up the first generation of the leadership with children to have inherited traits, if using Princesses in the descr_strat then assigning them the kinds of traits that would be passed along (but forgotten), and since it will make a significant economic difference to initially help out those married characters.

    I see that you've assigned them political ancillaries which is smart as some modders fail to do that and they use the MPP = 100 to hopefully result in getting that ancillary, but if some other general gets adopted then this way can result in not getting some ancillaries. For some named characters, you might think about pre-assigning ancillaries to also be a factor in the first 250-50 turns to help them survive.

    PS High level governor/generals might have a lot of people on their staff, so if you make your ancillaries as traits, then you can add in those attributes through traits assigned for levels of military generals or governors. As such, the AI especially gets the benefit for the AI isn't smart enough to go here and wait so long in order to finally get an ancillary. Which means fighting one level 3 general vs. another level 3 general would each have a similar staff (differing with culture), and so really equalizes it out. But a very powerful level 5 general fighting a level 1 general with far less staff (less trait attributes instead of ancillaries) is going to be at a genuine historical disadvantage...and rightly so.

    You can assign a BodyguardSize attribute too, something that makes sense for levels of generals, and thus really increase the amount of personal guard around a general. Since the AI is dumb and will go charging in too early with generals, then this can end up saving the life of an AI general. See Withwnar's tutorial.
    Last edited by RubiconDecision; July 04, 2014 at 09:09 PM.

  7. #127
    KEA's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Paeninsula Italica II - Version 0.97

    Quote Originally Posted by RubiconDecision View Post
    EDIT: I don't know who coded your EDCT, but he/she was pretty smart. I've never come across someone else who's thought about the effect of noble wifes passing along helpful and harmful traits on to the children except through Princesses. That's actually something I'm working on, so as I read through it, I am deeply impressed.
    Thanks a lot. The idea behind it is that each character is different and that way would react differently to certain situations. Indeed, one way to define a character's character would be the influence of the mother.

    Then specifically telling the player that if their WifeIsBarren, sending their named character to a nearby temple of Juno to help reverse it.
    Interesting idea. People back than would have been deeply religious, if not superstitious. So it would be an idea to add those effects on them.

    I'm also trying to remove as many ancillaries as possible, and use traits instead, something that your mod team member did with political titles with levels as traits. Very good.
    Ancillaries are very helpful because you can limit them to once per faction or worldwide. The problem is that a character can only have eight, so you have to limit the possibility for "normal" ancillaries to acquired when you are also using "political" ancillaries etc.

    But, your vice traits can become overwhelming really quickly by having other negative traits. Have you thought about CharacterAge helping to do a reset?
    I am insofar not happy with the results as characters mass up traits too fast. One intention was to limit the amount of traits a characters can have at a time. In theory my system should be working because each trait has one or more antitraits, but somehow the engine tends to give traits in one direction rather than to nullify them with antitraits. Means I need to add additional "blocks" by triggers. One idea could be to use some kind of "specialization", similar to the chains of traits in Shogun 2. I already have one such example with the Attacker vs. Defender: there is no bad trait for each but an "attacker" gets a bonus when attacking and a malus when defending, and vice versa for the "defender". This might be done with most other traits as well, meaning you are either this or that and the better you become in the one trade the poorer you become in the opposite one.

    But I haven't found the time so far to work this out.

    PS High level governor/generals might have a lot of people on their staff, so if you make your ancillaries as traits, then you can add in those attributes through traits assigned for levels of military generals or governors.
    That's a good idea, in particular because these can be assigned and removed depending on which office a character is holding.


    You can assign a BodyguardSize attribute too, something that makes sense for levels of generals, and thus really increase the amount of personal guard around a general. Since the AI is dumb and will go charging in too early with generals, then this can end up saving the life of an AI general. See Withwnar's tutorial.
    Really? Can you please point me to that tutorial.

  8. #128

    Default Re: Paeninsula Italica II - Version 0.97

    Quote Originally Posted by KEA View Post
    Interesting idea. People back than would have been deeply religious, if not superstitious. So it would be an idea to add those effects on them.
    Yes, there's multiple theories as to why it works. The power of positive thinking, the calmness induced by a spiritual trust in a god (versus a religious belief in judgment), the placebo effect, etc. A patient doing some action in which they have control or autonomy, then creates a sense of purpose towards their destiny, while also handing over a portion of that to the gods.

    Roman medicine in terms of surgery had all manner of tools for examination and for excision, plus many herbal concoctions, and some of the ingredients did have a beneficial effect, but it was more about preventative medicine. So this is why the sewers and public baths were helpful and even an aspect of proper sanitation in Roman forts. But they also encouraged the ill to visit the public baths because there was no germ theory, but it was believed that visiting a place that might be cursed by the gods (like a marsh filled with mosquitoes and staying in that cursed place would cause illness) so partially right and partially wrong. Which means public baths might be a source of routine illness if you chose to have that from BBB 4.0a, but more often than not result in HaleAndHearty traits from cleanliness.

    So a Roman officer might travel to a shrine or temple in order to get some curse removed, whether from a place they had visited and sent by the gods, or some malevolent creature.

    Quote Originally Posted by KEA View Post
    Ancillaries are very helpful because you can limit them to once per faction or worldwide. The problem is that a character can only have eight, so you have to limit the possibility for "normal" ancillaries to acquired when you are also using "political" ancillaries etc.
    Yep, but there needs to be some better way to ensure that high level generals or governors get the same ancillaries, and MPP movement is not a good one, and often assumes the named character is not doing anything that turn because no unit it trained or not building, when there might not be money for it, and yet the named character still have responsibilities. If you don't move, you'll likely get a bad trait/ancillary too. It's why I've made some MPP >=25 % so if he moved to build a watchtower, transferred to another nearby settlement, then he still might get that ancillary, but negative ancillaries need MPP movement = 100% so he's doing nothing.

    But this ends up with too many low level named characters getting the better ancillaries merely by being in a settlement with better infrastructure, which isn't right. One simple solution is CharacterAge, so that a young named character wouldn't get these better ancillaries, but that won't work for the young Heir or Leader that might happen who you want to get titles and better ancillaries.

    Quote Originally Posted by KEA View Post
    I am insofar not happy with the results as characters mass up traits too fast. One intention was to limit the amount of traits a characters can have at a time. In theory my system should be working because each trait has one or more antitraits, but somehow the engine tends to give traits in one direction rather than to nullify them with antitraits. Means I need to add additional "blocks" by triggers. One idea could be to use some kind of "specialization", similar to the chains of traits in Shogun 2. I already have one such example with the Attacker vs. Defender: there is no bad trait for each but an "attacker" gets a bonus when attacking and a malus when defending, and vice versa for the "defender". This might be done with most other traits as well, meaning you are either this or that and the better you become in the one trade the poorer you become in the opposite one.

    But I haven't found the time so far to work this out.
    Well your concept just needs tweeking. One isn't Ignorant or Intelligent 50/50. You need more layers of that randomness to account for averages of intellect, with the average being the norm, so not brilliant, nor dumb or simply not constructing the buildings so they become intelligent or reverse ignorance.

    Not every homosexual (Arse) is going to automatically be an open one, and so those characters rapidly run into massive losses. Younger ones who are powerless are going to hide it while they try to get empowered if that culture has negative connotations to it. Since there's often evident of a lot of famous intelligentsia being homosexual, with several famous and well performing generals being so, then the Arse trait has always been flawed.

    Because of the 10% qualifier in your mod, then 10% are going to get ruinous traits from Arse, when that's not reflective of history. Not every homosexual becomes a flaming queen, but some might, and I'd think it would be a small subset of homosexuality.

    What I like is you made culture have a result on a trait like GallicDrink or whatever it's called, so that for some cultures it would be a positive thing, and being a teetotaler would be a very negative thing. But doing this for every culture might be cumubersome, and better to have IsGallic to be a trait, then exclude them from Drink or add different modifiers or whatever.
    That's a good idea, in particular because these can be assigned and removed depending on which office a character is holding.


    Quote Originally Posted by KEA View Post
    Really? Can you please point me to that tutorial.
    Sure.
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...d-Size-in-M2TW
    This is an extremely helpful trait. In Broken Crescent there's a ChristianHero and IslamicHero trait. I added BodyguardSize to levels of it, thinking regardless of rank, or political leadership, the named characters who won the most battles would attract a lot of captains seeking glory in war, and protecting that general.

    You can also do something to make such a character powerful. If he's not getting political office or maybe an ancillary title as a governor, then that would be as if he's being passed over for promotion and not being recognized by the Leader, and hence he might rebel, but be a powerful one. It's good to create some sense of conflict for every good that you give the player, or otherwise the player becomes overpowered and steamrolls over the AI.

    One could start the game with several of the Leaders or Heirs with large BodyguardSize, and so prevent them from dying too soon as well. Or have a spawned named character from history with this modification.
    ...

    The EDB is a thing of beauty regarding temples, but maybe there should be modification if it's not the first temple made. One might want growth...at first, but later it ends up creating squalor, so one makes a law temple. Anyway, you might want to make it into a tutorial for the Workshop because multiple religions are common in the ancient world, and in the medieval world in certain cities it would be common from trade alone and immigration.

    There's an interesting tolerance script in ByzantineBoys Jizya's submod for BC. A yes/no event results in religious tolerance and resets the regions amount of certain religions, and the player builds a sector for Muslims or Orthodox in the Levant, so that's another way to create something like history with multiple religions, which could have positive and negative effects, and limit regions being 100% of that faction's belief system, but overcome by buildings that amplify religion. See:
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...mis-v2Released

    Mithralism was very important to the Roman soldier, but more so to the Legionaries, and was a religion from Persia. So in that era the introduction of a foreign religion ended up creating the Roman military force. You could have it be reflective of continual Greek influence in Italy for many years to come, or Carthage in those dominated areas like Corsica and Sardinia, and so a Carthaginian Sector and a Greek Sector with trade buildings, and likely an Etruscan Sector too.
    ...
    You're still in beta, so there's lots of little text dialogue that isn't configured yet, as well as parts of the battle UI not there, but if you could fix the show your own troops vs the enemy (green vs. red) that would be majorly helpful in night battles. With pillum using troops, which are buggy in MTW2, then one has to micromanage a lot of the fighting for best effect, so pausing after issuing orders, then readjusting to get the units in formation to "roll up the carpet" properly. Anyway, since you can't quickly see who is who with green, then it makes it more problematic. I'd make that a high priority.

    For the reader who doesn't know how to do it, rolling up the carpet is by creating a formation like this:
    Enemy Enemy Enemy Enemy
    Principes Principes Principes
    Hasti
    Hasti
    Hasti
    and when the shocktroops match up with the enemy, then the Hasti stacked in that way break the left front, and those enemy on that side waver and rout, then the Leftmost Principes reforms and sweeps 90 degrees to the Right and the Hasti can also making the carpet roll up. Or the Principes can then press forward as can the Hasti and keep making that Left front rout. Your cavalry can also flank or pin that Left side too exacerbating the routing enemy.

    EDIT: Remember the Bell Curve when you rebalance the EDCT.

    If you do that, then the initial random traits will be more distributed, not 50/50, and so you'll get more diverse characters which is hopefully a goal of such random characters. Likewise, every named character with a trait, who then gains another trait, won't necessarily get the third trait, but follow that Bell Curve distribution. Thus very few flaming queens with the ARSE trait.

    The No going back level qualifier should be set very high, and there should always be a mechanism for antitraits such that a life event (disease, education, marriage, gaining religious belief, losing religious belief, etc) can reverse it. Otherwise it's the snowball effect every single time. That's no fun for the player who is trying to "build up" the named character by going to this settlement where special buildings exist, or fighting battles, or building those buildings as a governor, or training agents, or training units, and so getting STRONGER in attributes.

    It's a game after all, and when you begin playing a mod where you cannot improve due to randomness ruining your character, then people stop playing.
    Last edited by RubiconDecision; July 08, 2014 at 12:44 PM.

  9. #129

    Default Re: Paeninsula Italica II - Version 0.97

    great mod! Make it to the end please.

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