It just hit my mind...

[General Maximus]

I was thinking about the unit sizes in TW games. Suddenly, it hit my mind to calculate the total troops of a large empire possible in TW games.

In Rome 2, we have seen the Legionary cohorts to be of about 180 men. And there are total 40 units per army, right? So assuming we have the whole Roman Empire and fully developed every single province so that every province supports 40 units, we have, 180 x 40 = 7,200 troops, if you consider that entire army consists of only one type of unit. And suppose the army limit is one army per province. The real Rome, according to the game's provinces, would have contained 34 to 36 provinces at maximum. So 180 x 40 x 35 = 7200 x 35 = 252000.

Nearly 252,000 men as a standing army, and in TW games! That is something I could've never imagined! The number is huge, especially for TW games. The size is smaller than that, since one also counts smaller units like 80-men strong horsemen and 120-men strong archers, along with a number of other units with even smaller strengths. And you can count economic limitations too until you are filthy rich and all of the empire is completely developed. But the number is still great!

If you look at previous games, the case is not much different. Infantry units are even bigger in RTW, with many units having 245 men. Napoleon had the biggest unit sizes, with most infantry units being 300 and with mods, about 500 (for example - Darthmod's Prussian Landwehr). Even Shogun 1 and Medieval 1, when you develop 7-8 fullstack armies, you get more than 100,000 men.

So as it turns out, TW games have nearly equal the number of real life giant armies of the eras they depict. The only thing is that unlike real historical armies, those giant numbers cannot be amassed at one point in the game. In battle of Philippi there were more than 200,000 soldiers on each side including Auxilia and allied units, but this is not possible in the game. But once CA allows over 60/80 units per army (which will never happen in my opinion) and 500 men per unit, TW will have finally achieved the size of real armies.

[caissus]

Armies are only 20 units and you'll never be able to field more than 10 000 men on a single battle. Also, there's only like 50 provinces, so I somewhat doubt Rome would own 34-36 of them.

[General Maximus]

Armies are only 20 units and you'll never be able to field more than 10 000 men on a single battle. Also, there's only like 50 provinces, so I somewhat doubt Rome would own 34-36 of them.

But didn't CA reveal that now there are 40 unit armies? And as I said, the real Rome would have owned 34-46 provinces which include Trajan's conquests i.e. Mesopotamia, Georgia, Dacia, Cherson and many more.

[The Useless Member]

But didn't CA reveal that now there are 40 unit armies? And as I said, the real Rome would have owned 34-46 provinces which include Trajan's conquests i.e. Mesopotamia, Georgia, Dacia, Cherson and many more.

I don't think they said that. I think they're keeping the standard 20 cards to a full-stack and 40 cards on one battlefield. I can't exactly source this though.

[General Maximus]

I don't think they said that. I think they're keeping the standard 20 cards to a full-stack and 40 cards on one battlefield. I can't exactly source this though.

There are many sources all around the forums that explained that battles will now be 40 units vs 40 units. I think Jack Lusted himself might have confirmed this, although I am not sure. They are retaining the system from Shogun II, only updating it so that instead of having the other 20 units as reinforcements the player might be able to stack them all in one army.

But I am not sure again.

[Garbarsardar]

I wonder, what manner of map could accommodate these assemblies. I think the issue of scale has been expertly dealt with, by Borges, here:

In that Empire, the craft of Cartography attained such Perfection that the Map of a Single province covered the space of an entire City,
and the Map of the Empire itself an entire Province. In the course of Time, these Extensive maps were found somehow wanting,
and so the College of Cartographers evolved a Map of the Empire that was of the same Scale as the Empire and that coincided with it point for point.
Less attentive to the Study of Cartography, succeeding Generations came to judge a map of such Magnitude cumbersome, and, not without Irreverence,
they abandoned it to the Rigours of sun and Rain.
In the western Deserts, tattered Fragments of the Map are still to be found, Sheltering an occasional Beast or beggar;
in the whole Nation, no other relic is left of the Discipline of Geography.

[Knight of Heaven]

Armies are only 20 units and you'll never be able to field more than 10 000 men on a single battle. Also, there's only like 50 provinces, so I somewhat doubt Rome would own 34-36 of them.

There are 183 regions in Rome II, that are grouped into 57 provinces. Provinces are groupings of up to four regions, and each region within a province can be conquered separately. With 117 different factions present in the campaign.

But didn't CA reveal that now there are 40 unit armies? And as I said, the real Rome would have owned 34-46 provinces which include Trajan's conquests i.e. Mesopotamia, Georgia, Dacia, Cherson and many more.

dude 40 units if you have 2 armies. One army in reiforcement position. ITs just like shogun 2. There is no diference a single army will have 20 units, but you can control 40 in battle if you have 1 more army as reinforcement. Also im under the impression the naval units count as regular army units, in case you having a mixed land/naval battle. But im not sure.


Not to mention am certain we can twick the scale of the units. The ones seen on the demo, was large scale i belive.

[AtheistDane]

Unit size for infantry, like hastati is 160 - which is unit size on ultra just like ETW, NTW, S2TW.

[jsully16]

Armies are only 20 units and you'll never be able to field more than 10 000 men on a single battle. Also, there's only like 50 provinces, so I somewhat doubt Rome would own 34-36 of them.

Maybe in the campaign.

But I've done 2-on-2 games for fun in custom battles in Shogun 2 with 40 units per army.

Calculated the total to be ~23,000 - 27,000, can't remember exactly. But THAT was fun.

[caissus]

Maybe in the campaign.

But I've done 2-on-2 games for fun in custom battles in Shogun 2 with 40 units per army.

Calculated the total to be ~23,000 - 27,000, can't remember exactly. But THAT was fun.

I know. But I want to be able to recreate those battles in the campaign too, where the battles actually have a context and a purpose.

[oOIYvYIOo]

Armies are only 20 units and you'll never be able to field more than 10 000 men on a single battle.

Correct.

[-=PHX=-Hades]

Legionary cohorts will be bigger than 180 men. I assume they just had the unit size on medium or something. I expect on huge it will be more like 300.

[kamikazee786]

each stack only supports 20 units not 40, we will only have the ability to control up to 40 units in battle when another nearby army acts as reinforcements, it's the same system as it is in Shogun II.

yes a standing army of 252,000 would be awesome.

I guess we will have half of that but hey,

162,500 men isnt bad at all

[spartan_warrior]

Armies are still only 20 units, but 2 armies can fight in one battle for 40 units. Also they said that the number of armies available is not a linear increase, so every additional province will not always allow for another new army.

[General Maximus]

Also they said that the number of armies available is not a linear increase, so every additional province will not always allow for another new army.

That is why I said, let us assume if this was the case. It is still not released so we don't know if this is true or not.

But have they truly confirmed that only 20 units maximum will be present in one army at any time, and not 40 units per army? Any sources?

[Adreno]

it will be like it was in fots

[caissus]

I just hope will be able to mod armies to be bigger. 20 units doesn't cut it anymore.

[[N2]Kami]

Even if they allow 60/80 units stack per army, I don't think our video card can handle that, not to say you can't control 80 units in combat without missing something.

[skofuz]

Even if they allow 60/80 units stack per army, I don't think our video card can handle that, not to say you can't control 80 units in combat without missing something.

If you're getting reinforcements in addition to that + the enemy with his reinforcements, then I can understand how 160 units is a bit much on a battlefield, but at the moment in S2 my computer is doing very well in battles with 80 units in them.

EDIT: Didn't pay close attention to your post, I'm talking about 40 units per army itself, not 60/80

[caissus]

I really, really wish there was an option for 40 card armies. It's all I want, really. That and more than 2 player MPC.