A Couple of Annoying CA Marketing Spins

[TuranianGhazi]

Allright, guys did you notice this or am I just crazy?

TWO "NEW" Lauded Rome 2 Features

1) "NEW" Transparent Diplomacy where one sees all the bonuses and negative modifiers why a faction hates or loves you or neutral

TG opinion: Ummm... didn't they have that since like forever... since ETW, NTW, and S2, you could see what the sum was.... how is this new exactly?

and

2) "NEW" First Person Camera

TG opinion: Ummm... ETW had a version of that... S2 FOTS had the latest, solid version of that... ain't exactly new


I just hate marketing spins like that... if it's not NEW. don't say it... say the most updated, latest rendition of the same, familiar feature we've had in previous TW for a while now

Best,
TG

[Travisfv]

I honestly believe these are going to be new features. We had something like it in past TW games, but I think now they are fully realized.

Seeing what's effecting diplomacy was never truly transparent. In my campaign as the US in ETW, the Maratha confederacy was a long standing trade partner with excellent relation. One turn after requesting alliance, the declared war on me for no reason whatsoever.

I think now we will see what is happening. As far as I could work out, my war with Persia, (after buying a chunk of Afghanistan) could have been the catalyst. The Maratha's could have feared an expansion so decided and alliance was not in their best interest and instead that war would kill me off of being a power in the region. That kind of information would hopefully come up in the new diplomacy screen.

And the new action camera isn't really first person. It's more like over the shoulder but unlike in previous games where it was dead silent in watching from that POV (sans Napoleon), now we will have mini speeches by leaders of the cohort or unit and the camera may react to what's happening around the unit. It won't be so boring like in previous games, it'll feel like you're in the thick of the battle with the new animations and sound effects.

just my two cents. And honestly not what to expect, but what I have interpreted the features as.

[torongill]

1) "NEW" Transparent Diplomacy where one sees all the bonuses and negative modifiers why a faction hates or loves you or neutral
TG opinion: Ummm... didn't they have that since like forever... since ETW, NTW, and S2, you could see what the sum was.... how is this new exactly?

No, not really. If we are to believe the developers, then more or less everything you do that has some effect on that faction, direct or indirect, will be included.
Examples include even actions that might have benefited an ally of that faction, since it strengthens the overall position of that faction. It will no longer be just what connects the two factions directly.
The second, as Travisfv has said, is "above the shoulder" camera. It's not the FP camera, nor is it the extreme zoom from previous titles. It's a bit like the general camera in Mass Effect.

[TuranianGhazi]

Hmmm both of you have cogent points.

I just hope that your interpretations stand true, hopefully.

I do like the sound of both. I guess I need to be sold more by the depth of these actually familiar features but strengthened and upgraded to warrant the "NEW" feature status

[Travisfv]

I mean, don't quote us at all, but its how I have interpreted it to be. Diplomacy has always been infuriating in the past, but I think this level of transparency (role play wise I took it as having advisors who would tell you all this information) will really remove that annoying bits of the AI. If Macedon declares war on you, you know it's because you're on the Greek peninsula and are becoming a threat to her security.

[King_Porus]

Allright, guys did you notice this or am I just crazy?

TWO "NEW" Lauded Rome 2 Features

1) "NEW" Transparent Diplomacy where one sees all the bonuses and negative modifiers why a faction hates or loves you or neutral

TG opinion: Ummm... didn't they have that since like forever... since ETW, NTW, and S2, you could see what the sum was.... how is this new exactly?

and

2) "NEW" First Person Camera

TG opinion: Ummm... ETW had a version of that... S2 FOTS had the latest, solid version of that... ain't exactly new


I just hate marketing spins like that... if it's not NEW. don't say it... say the most updated, latest rendition of the same, familiar feature we've had in previous TW for a while now

Best,
TG

Your first point is wrong.

In previous Total War games it would say:
X Country's opinion towards you: Hostile

In Rome 2 it will say:
X Country's opinion towards you: Hostile, because:

• You attacked their ally
• You declined their trade agreement
• You are the ally of their enemy
• You are expanding quickly in their direction

It will give you a comprehensive list of reasons why another country does or doesn't like you, to my understanding.

For point 2, I believe it has always been an over the shoulder cam in previous games, so now it will truly be from the face of the soldier.

[Destraex]

Your first point is wrong.

In previous Total War games it would say:
X Country's opinion towards you: Hostile

In Rome 2 it will say:
X Country's opinion towards you: Hostile, because:

• You attacked their ally
• You declined their trade agreement
• You are the ally of their enemy
• You are expanding quickly in their direction

It will give you a comprehensive list of reasons why another country does or doesn't like you, to my understanding.

For point 2, I believe it has always been an over the shoulder cam in previous games, so now it will truly be from the face of the soldier.

Previous total war games have given the reason. Usually a bunch of reasons with a percentage iirc.
Or maybe that was just their current attitude to you rather than a particular action.

[Acroneos]

Maybe they mean it is "new" in comparison to Rome I.

[King_Porus]

Previous total war games have given the reason. Usually a bunch of reasons with a percentage iirc.
Or maybe that was just their current attitude to you rather than a particular action.

Ya, they may have had really basic versions, but they never had an actual specific list of reasons.

[BroskiDerpman]

Your first point is wrong.

In previous Total War games it would say:
X Country's opinion towards you: Hostile

In Rome 2 it will say:
X Country's opinion towards you: Hostile, because:

• You attacked their ally
• You declined their trade agreement
• You are the ally of their enemy
• You are expanding quickly in their direction

It will give you a comprehensive list of reasons why another country does or doesn't like you, to my understanding.

For point 2, I believe it has always been an over the shoulder cam in previous games, so now it will truly be from the face of the soldier.

All except for the trade agreement one is already included in previous Total War games just like what Destraex stated. The reason(s) and the penalty(ies) is already listed i.e you're expanding a lot:-5 Ally of their enemy:-60 Historical grievances:-80 Historical Friendship: +150...... and more all clearly listed.

[King_Porus]

All except for the trade agreement one is already included in previous Total War games just like what Destraex stated. The reason(s) and the penalty(ies) is already listed i.e you're expanding a lot:-5 Ally of their enemy:-60 Historical grievances:-80 Historical Friendship: +150...... and more all clearly listed.

Where do you find these, I think I might understand what you're saying.

[Aeneas Veneratio]

Where do you find these, I think I might understand what you're saying.

I don't recall NTW/ETW on this subject, but in S2 we had a long list of reasons for a faction's feelings toward you.

[Eien]

I don't recall NTW/ETW on this subject, but in S2 we had a long list of reasons for a faction's feelings toward you.

S2TW did have a list, but it wasn't particularly extensive and specific either.

Don't forget, on the E3 interviews, they promised "tens of thousands" of men in a battle. I'd be surprised if it reached 10 000

I'm playing S2TW with close to 30k men on the field (15k per side sans reinforcements). Not sure where you are coming from.

[BroskiDerpman]

Where do you find these, I think I might understand what you're saying.

Just like what Aeneas Veneratio said. Shogun 2 gives an decent list of the faction's attitude towards yours.

[TuranianGhazi]

I don't recall NTW/ETW on this subject, but in S2 we had a long list of reasons for a faction's feelings toward you.

ETW/NTW does have the same list of reasons, like BroskiDerpman here described:

All except for the trade agreement one is already included in previous Total War games just like what Destraex stated. The reason(s) and the penalty(ies) is already listed i.e you're expanding a lot:-5 Ally of their enemy:-60 Historical grievances:-80 Historical Friendship: +150...... and more all clearly listed.

For example, even with your protectorates and staunch allies, once your empire becomes too big, the "Territorial Expansion" modifier grows too large and they have a higher chance at rebelling against you... though I'd figure it should be the opposite... when the Empire is small or weak, the protectorate or ally is more likely to pounce on the opportunity to get the upper hand NOT when the faction is all-powerful and go on a suicidal independence spree. So that system is still rather borked, in my opinion.

So this is why I questioned the NOVELTY of the "new and transparent" diplomacy system

Judging by all they've told us, my interpretation was that it's simply the next iteration, polished development of the SAME initial, familiar feature we had since ETW... NTW had it, S2 for sure had it... but even ETW had it, so in that regards, ETW had this TRANSPARENT DIPLOMACY first and I'd say it was THEN a NEW, REVOLUTIONARY diplomacy change that I really DO like

So with Rome 2, I hope CA goes deeper, as some of your positive interpretations indicate ... hopefully

[King Philip II]

OP: I got really excited when reading the thread title, however, your examples of "marketing spin" are so minor that I doubt the SEGA marketing departemnt has even been consulted.

The big marketing "spins" (everything in marketing is spinning by definition) are DLC's and Steam.

[Toho]

Your first point is wrong.

In previous Total War games it would say:
X Country's opinion towards you: Hostile

In Rome 2 it will say:
X Country's opinion towards you: Hostile, because:

• You attacked their ally
• You declined their trade agreement
• You are the ally of their enemy
• You are expanding quickly in their direction

It will give you a comprehensive list of reasons why another country does or doesn't like you, to my understanding.

For point 2, I believe it has always been an over the shoulder cam in previous games, so now it will truly be from the face of the soldier.

lol have you played shogun 2? if I hover my mouse over it I will see why my neighbors are mad at me or like me...
this is nothing new.

[ptoss1]

lol have you played shogun 2? if I hover my mouse over it I will see why my neighbors are mad at me or like me...
this is nothing new.

Indeed.
Apparently CA is reinventing all of TW's features just for Rome 2.
What a surprise.

[Petroniu]

Your first point is wrong.

In previous Total War games it would say:
X Country's opinion towards you: Hostile

In Rome 2 it will say:
X Country's opinion towards you: Hostile, because:

• You attacked their ally
• You declined their trade agreement
• You are the ally of their enemy
• You are expanding quickly in their direction

It will give you a comprehensive list of reasons why another country does or doesn't like you, to my understanding.

For point 2, I believe it has always been an over the shoulder cam in previous games, so now it will truly be from the face of the soldier.

What I hope is that this time I will not be penalized because they broke the trade agreement. I mean, I always hated how I would take penalties because the AI was an idiot. Also, the penalty points system is a mess. The negative points are so many times bigger in comparison to the positive points. Like how in ETW having an alliance was 30+ points and having an trade agreement broken was -15 (and the trade agreement was broken by the AI). Nice thing we have that alliance though.

[DogSoldierSPQR]

These features are all actually new.
Sure there may have been the basic versions of them, but now, they are the real deal.
Like, Rome never wants to give me a ceasefire even though I'm kicking their thingy-bob. Now, I will know why.
I want to know everything that they are holding against me. So whoever at CA thought of this, THANK YOU!!!!!

The unit camera is pretty sweet. Personally, I don't like how the statistics box disappears though. I would like to keep count of how many we are killing without having to get out of that view. I don't even care though, it's not game-breaking. Love this new feature.
Also, as some mentioned above, there is the chance that while you are in that view, the captain or general could give a little speech. Like in the siege of Carthage. Before disembarking, Scipio gave a little speech.

I'm looking forward to this, but no, none of this is old in any way. They are all new features.