What would happen if Saruman got the ring?

[CatoTheYounger]

If Saruman got hold of the Ring it's suggested he would be too powerfull to be resisted. Would he become powerfull enough to topple mordor and become the new Dark lord?

Gandalf knew he himself was too powerfull to touch it and would not even consider holding it to review it. The more powerfull you are the more pull it had on you and the more unstoppalbe you would become. Galadrial knew the temptation and barely escaped it despite being in it's presense for only moments.

Should we consider suggesting an adjustment to the ring script? If Saruman can end his turn in Isengard with the Ring should he get a renewed character as powerfull as a Balrog? Should a non Istari ring bearer with 9 or more leadership have a chance to be turned into a Mordor faction character( like how bribed leaders change sides) or should they have a chance to go Rebel and turn into Powerfull enemies to all?

Seems like the whole idea of a powerfull charcter( sauruman,Gandalf,Elrond,Denethor...) getting hold of the ring and holding onto it too long should have more then negative traits but possibly turn them into a powerfull warlord.

Im wondering if any of you have theories of what would happen if say Denethor had possesion of the ring and stayed in Minis Tirith with it instead of trying to destroy it? Or the same question of alot of the more powerfull charcters.

It seems we might be missing the boat on the consequences of finding the ring if it's in the wrong hands. Could it spawn a new powered up version of the ring bearer if he is too powerfull a character that would be like Sauron?

[Loki_999]

Saruman could become as powerful as Sauron I think. They are both Maia. Depends on how strong a Maia Saruman is. If this were to happen though, i think Sauron would be destroyed as Saruman absorbs his power (bye bye pope Sauron), and the Mordor Faction should then fall under Isengard's control.

As for someone like Denethor getting the ring, i think they would quickly be subsumed to the will of Sauron and they would deliver the ring to him like a good little puppy.

One of my favourite scenes from books/films/cartoon is the temptation of Galadriel. It sends a strong message about the power of the One Ring.

[SandraDevilGirl]

One of my favourite scenes from books/films/cartoon is the temptation of Galadriel. It sends a strong message about the power of the One Ring.

I agree!

[CatoTheYounger]

Im thinking anybody powerfull would go rogue and not give it up. Become a warlord maybe. A more average character with high loyalty might try to destroy it. A strong leader with little loyalty might turn it over.

But if an Istari keeps the ring i think we might consider giving them a super character and risk them going rebel or have all good factions break an alliance or something.

The ring actualy opens alot of gaming possbilities if it's thougt out.

[Bowmaster]

I like your idea, @Cato.

In my next Mordor campaign, I'm going to turtle, and send the Nazgul to spread pain in Middle-Earth and look for the Ring. It would make it even more awesome if I'd have to fight Saruman to get the Ring from him.

[Loki_999]

I like your idea, @Cato.

In my next Mordor campaign, I'm going to turtle, and send the Nazgul to spread pain in Middle-Earth and look for the Ring. It would make it even more awesome if I'd have to fight Saruman to get the Ring from him.

That's what i have going in my (unfinished) Mordor campaign. It sounds like a nice idea, until you try it. You see, the problem I had was the ring appeared somewhere in Eraidor, so I sent my Nazgul across the whole map to go play fetch. As i get close, after many turns of travel (not to mention pissing off a lot of factions as I rampage through their regions) I get the message the ring has now been discovered somewhere near Dale.... so change of direction start heading over there. As the Nazgul get close, yes, you guessed it, the ring is now in the Blue Mountains.... crap!

At this point i put the campaign on hold. I will get the ring eventually, but only when i have the mood to return. The game was just trolling me badly.

In other news, in my HE campaign, Mordor got the ring back to Barad-Dur. Sauron is marching on Gondor. My armies (2 and a half stacks) are currently attacking Rhun, all the western evil factions have been destroyed, so just considering whether to let Gondor face Sauron alone, or hightail my stacks south to help them out and leave Dale and the Dwarves to deal with Rhun .... not too confident about doing that, until i turned up, the only ones troubling Rhun were the SE, Dale had practically collapsed and the Dwarves were just sitting on their asses.

[|Sith|Galvanized Iron]

Immediate paradise would have ensued. All power to Saruman our liberator!

[Bladvak]

As the saying goes, only the Dark Lord can fully control the ring.

In my opinion, if someone such as Gandalf or Saruman would have used the ring to its full powers and become corrupted, it would give them power, but not absolute power. Sauron would still have existed, only if kept alive by the ring. It does not make sense to have all of Mordor's armies destroyed if a Maia gets the ring and uses it, since the ring is still intact.

In conclusion, if a Maia (Gandalf or Saruman) would get and use the ring, a bitter fight to the end would ensue between the keeper of the ring and Sauron, a fight even more bitter than the one between elves and orcs, Gondor and Mordor, much like an evil kinstrife to the death. After all, they would both want the other one's full and utter destruction. There can only be one keeper of the ring.

If Denether had the ring, I presume he would have become corrupted and become a Nazgul, albeit a more unique Nazgul, "made" by the One Ring and not by a Lesser Ring. In this case, some of Denethor's followers would become black Numenoreans , or black Gondorians.

[Mank]

If Saruman got hold of the Ring it's suggested he would be too powerfull to be resisted. Would he become powerfull enough to topple mordor and become the new Dark lord?

Should we consider suggesting an adjustment to the ring script?

Good news! The Uruk has been working on this and it will be part of the "Divide and Conquer" sub-mod release.

He has also made the 'v1.0' version of this available for vanilla TATW 3.2 (HERE)

[CatoTheYounger]

Beyond cool. Can't wait to see what he comes up with.

[Bowmaster]

Sadly I don't want to download D&C; Way too many factions to unbalance the game.

[Lord Butters I]

This would actually be a fairly easy feature to implement. In the ring corruption scripts, add something that will check for a hidden trait that gets added to Gandalf, Saruman, and anyone else you want to be labeled "powerful" and on a random chance (Saruman's would be higher than Gandalf's; maybe guarenteed) that it would give that character a trait that makes him MUCH stronger. Huge bonuses to combat effectiveness, hit points, etc. Additionally, the Ring ancilliary would be removed and replaced with a different one that cannot be transferred. I'm not sure if this is possible, but if Isenguard it would immediately be excommunicated. For those without this special "powerful character" hidden trait, it would check for command stats above 8, and if so there would be a chance of either gaining a similar (though less intense) power-up trait and a non-transferable ring. This new ring would not check for corruption, but instead would have a random chance per turn of causing the unit to defect to Mordor. This check would not take place if Mordor as a faction has been destroyed; Sauron would presumably be too busy regrouping and figuring out what to do next to dominate anyone.

You could even create a Galadriel unit for Silvan elves, and if the Ring is ever taken to Caras Galadhon there would be a dialogue on the next turn of whether or not Galadriel takes the ring. For AI controlled Silvan Elves, it would be a random chance each turn that Silvans control the ring, no matter where it is, that way there would be an actual chance of her showing up in a given game. Galadriel would be an elephant unit like Sauron or the Balrog to reflect her magic, but her stability and size would be human-normal.

This has the makings of a pretty good sub-mod.

[CatoTheYounger]

Fascinating idea's. Actualy the Ring script should be expanded for sure because the hunt for the Ring should be as important as the war itself. Depending on who gets the ring and how powerfull they are it can shift the game in different directions. Anything that makes the ring getting into the wrong hands more dramatic im all for.

To think of Denethor wielding the ring and getting angry at those who break an aliiance because of his behavior. And trying to punish all who try to rob him of his werguild. Gondor will trample those who through fear and defiance try to rob her of her glory!

[Lord Butters I]

I don't know TWscript, is it possible to change a given character's portrait? If so, it would be quite interesting for Denethor (or maybe anyone turned by the 9+ command chance in my concept) to become a fourth (or tenth) Nazgul unit if they defect to Mordor. Although, since Mordor would immediately bring the Ring to Sauron, how would the given character be controlled after that happens? Maybe they should just be killed; Sauron takes the ring, the character is freed from its dominion, then Sauron kills him(/her if Galdriel is implemented)

I know a bit of modding; I may have to learn how to script. I'd like to see this feature.

[Mank]

If you're serious about trying this out here is a link to AJ Stoner's "Complex Interactive Events" tutorial, it will give you a basic overview of some of the code dynamics you would need to use.

[|Sith|Galvanized Iron]

Isn't it a little bit inplausable that anyone would turn into a wraith that quickly? Wouldn't the process take at least 200 years? (which is beyond the timescale of the mod...) And since the character would have the master ring it seems unlikely he would be dominated in the same way as someone who got the servant rings...

[Infidel144]

Tolkien's direct statement on others getting the One Ring is in Letter 246:

In [Sauron's] actual presence none but very few of equal stature could have hoped to withhold it [the One Ring] from him. Of 'mortals' no one, not even Aragorn. In the contest with the Palantír Aragorn was the rightful owner. Also the contest took place at a distance, and in a tale which allows the incarnation of great spirits in a physical and destructible form their power must be far greater when actually physically present...

Of the others only Gandalf might be expected to master him - being an emissary of the Powers and a creature of the same order, an immortal spirit taking a visible physical form. In the 'Mirror of Galadriel', 1381, it appears that Galadriel conceived of herself as capable of wielding the Ring and supplanting the Dark Lord. If so, so also were the other guardians of the Three, especially Elrond.

Here, of course, Tolkien is speaking only of the Good Guys, but Saruman, being of the same order as well, would presumably have been able to do as Gandalf. I have always found the comment 'especially Elrond' intriguing. I wonder if it might have to do with his Maiarin heritage, being a direct descendant of Melian.

[Flinn]

I think that some sort of confrontation would have been settled between Saruman and Sauron; maybe it would have taken a while to Saruman to master the Ring, but after that I suppose I could have find a way to somewhat force Sauron to a direct confrontation, eventually destroing him or making him a sort of gost or lesser servant. This is the reason why Sauron feared so much that someone powerful would have claimed the Ring; if he could only simply flee and somewhat plot to recover it he woulnd't have been so mad about hurring his assault on Gondor. Furthermore, as the Ring Wraights are clearly reported to be slaves of the One, he would (Saruman) have got power over their will too.
I don't think he would have got immediatly rulership over Mordor armies, except maybe those under direct control of the Nazguls, but for sure as long as their former master was overtrown, those buddies would have to decide wheter to be eradicated or join Saruman.

As for what he would have done as the new Dark Lord, well this is quite plain, considering what he did in Isengard; he would have made the world a great factory, polluting and exploting natural resources for greed and even just for fun, making himself and his armies more and more powerful, while conquering or exterminating every people that would oppose him or not worship him and surely as soon as he would have felt ready he could have tried for Aman ...

this is, of course, just my idea

finally, regarding the other issue, I think that every Maya and the majority of the High Elves (at least those who were in Aman) would have had strength enough to master the ring to its full power; on the other hand, I don't see why someone like Denethor or Aragorn would become ghosts; it is said that the One gives power according to the "stature" of the bearer so I think, with their strong will, they would have found a way to master it, maybe not at its full power. They would probably have been corrupted by its evilness, though this is not sure too, as as far as we can see from direct sources, much depends on how you get over the ring (Gollum went the evil way because he murdered Deagol, while Bilbo was even able to surrender it to someone else!!), for sure they wouldn't be able to destroy it by their will (that was basically what happened to Isildur, he wasn't able to destroy it, but he hadn't became evil at all), so to conclude my tought I think that someone like Aragorn, being forced to go against his will and to take the ring, would have probably became a serious treat to Sauron, being able for his part to unite under his will all the free peoples (at least men) and maybe forcing also Harad or Esterling to follow his will or at least to retreat their support to Sauron, while at the same time he maybe had enough power to take the ringwraights to his side (being them just but men like himself).

"In [Sauron's] actual presence none but very few of equal stature could have hoped to withhold it .. " that's the point, ACTUAL PRESENCE, so I think Aragorn could have done much with the ring and turned the tide to his favour before there will be (if ever there would be) a direct confrontation with Sauron, which I mean something phisical, not just tring to master the ring. I really doubt such a confrontation would have been risked by Sauron on his own will (otherwise he would have set forth by himself to recover the One), because the most part of its power was in the ring, so he knew he would have risked to expose himself to be destroyed or at least enslaved if the ring was in the had of someone powerful enough to master it.

just a bouch of tought, I don't have the heart for working hard today

[CatoTheYounger]

I play Mos with Directors cut and have never been interested in D&C because of all the factions. Does anybody know if a new ring script was actually added as it is mentioned above that was being worked on and it was some time ago?

[Ngugi]

I play Mos with Directors cut and have never been interested in D&C because of all the factions. Does anybody know if a new ring script was actually added as it is mentioned above that was being worked on and it was some time ago?

Ask in the DaC-thread in the submod-section.

This thread is moved to Submods since it's an idea for a submod; no TATW team active.