Reform the Koinon Hellenon's general bodyguard

[Purplzhazy]

Hello everyone, I see that Koinon Hellenon have a reform in order to have some phalangitais. I would have the possibility to have a cavalry general bodyguard with them with this reform. I mean, obviously, you need some phalangitais to fight versus roman in the campaign; and a hoplitai general bodyguard is very very restrictive. Ok, greeks generals were hoplite but they aren't mad ! Be on a horse is much much better. So, if someone could help me to do this, it can be very nice, thanks guys !

[Boriak]

That makes sense. If the Greeks wanted to survive, they would have to upgrade their armies. The hoplite is far too slow; 2nd century BC was a time of light and fast troops. Perhaps something like the cavalry of Epeiros.

[Frtigern]

Not needed. I believe you are in essence taking the motivating factors out of roleplaying a Greek general away by putting him in a saddle. They are the one faction besides the Swebozez that have faction members fighting on foot. They are like the Triarii of my Greek armies. They stand as a reserve behind the thickest action encouraging the troops and ready to turn the tide of the battle if my shield wall doth break. They are beasts against any other infantry. They still need to be careful from being flanked by kopis/falcata swordsmen, axemen and falxmen though. Being infantry also prevents me from committing human error mistakes that I might do with cavalry. Sometimes I will think FM cavalry are invincible and parade them all around the battlefield until I lose focus elsewhere and I hear they have died due to my inattention. Or have gotten in such a quagmire of epic melee that they fall gloriously in the midst of the all the slain enemy. As heavy spearmen, my generals don't have to worry about getting detached and surrounded as often. Cavalry have less effect on them usually. But using your FM as your cavalry arm can also take away certain tactical advantages. One is the element of surprise. The FM cannot hide, so there is no hiding away on the flank and charging the enemy at the right moment attacks. Also, if you get your FM cavalry tired, you risk being hit by fresher enemy cavalry that can kill your FM.

The Greeks do have access to decent heavy cavalry. They may not be cataphracts but they get the job done, especially when you don't have to go up against cataphracts.

From heaviest to lightest
Hippeis Thessalikoi
Lonchophoroi Hippeis - Not true heavy cavalry as they carry shields but their charge is high and still AP.
Misthophoroi Thraikioi Prodromoi
Hippeis Xystophoroi
Prodromoi

Misthophoroi Thraikioi Prodromoi, Hippeis Xystophoroi an the Prodromoi are the hardiest. I despise the Hippeis as I think there is no use for them if you have one of these three in your army, and the Lonchophoroi Hippeis are far superior to them. Actually if you desire a lighter cavalry that are very hardy, the Hippeis Tarantinoi, Hetairoi Aspidophoroi, Eqvites Campanici and Thraikioi Hippeis are more versatile and are good flanking and melee cavalry.

[Cyclops]

Not needed. I believe you are in essence taking the motivating factors out of roleplaying a Greek general away by putting him in a saddle. They are the one faction besides the Swebozez that have faction members fighting on foot. ....

And Saba? Very good post, I agree and in my current KH campaign I'm using generals just as you say (with mercenary Hellenistic generals running the little provincial armies). I also use restricted camera, it means if there's part of the battle over the hill I have to set a group of units to AI and hope for the best. Free floating camera gives you a more cinematic view of course but restricted is for when you want to play hardball.

I try to keep the initial two generals with Spartan BGs fighting all the battles (Athenians and Rhodians get to be administrators, only 1 level 1 govt, in Sparta), later FL's get a 4 spartan hoplites as the core of the "royal army". I really have to slug battles out until I allow myself the "Thorakitai reforms" (defeat Makedonia and Epiros and realise they're doing some funky things) and then I mutate the KH into a more Roman like army.

In Keltoi campaigns I love recruiting mercenary Keltic generals for siege assaults. restricted camera is a pain in sieges but you can make it work.

[Purplzhazy]

I like your point of view, thanks for this good answer.
All this cavalry can be recruit in Macedonia and Thrace, so is there any special building to do there in order to have them ?

[Stath's]

see the recruitment viewer to decide which government to build. then just barracks

[Petite Wolf]

see the recruitment viewer to decide which government to build. then just barracks

This. The recruitment viewer is super helpful when trying to decide which government type to build where so that you can recruit the troops you want, in my opinion.

[Boriak]

This topic was not about finding heavy cavalry for Koinon Hellenon to use. It was about reforming the KH general into a cavalry unit so he has more mobility and overview, giving him more command of the battlefield. Since 2nd century was about abandoning slow units in favour of fast units, battlefield circumstances changed very quickly. I doubt a hoplite general could issue commands effectively in such an environment.

True, this idea is not about historical realism since Greeks were eventually defeated by Rome; there was no time for them to evolve their armies. But this is about playing with KH and ensuring their survival against other cultures that evolved their units faster. For example, in my current KH campaign, I'm at war with Rome, Carthage, Makedonia and Seleucids - at the same time. You can be sure I wouldn't be able to keep them at bay unless I had a very good view of the battlefield, given to me by the game. If I played with the camera, restricted to the general's units, I wouldn't stand a chance.

[Frtigern]

I understand that, but the Greeks already have a mounted generals unit, Mistophoros Strategos. It's what you have access to if you build a Type IV government anywhere in the Hellenistic world. The only downside to getting them is that you have to build a Type IV to train them, and if you revert back to a Type I, II, or III government they cannot stay within the city. But who wants an expensive mounted general to sit around in the city? So it would be fairly easy to build a Type IV (only takes 1 turn), recruit the mercenary general (another turn), then demolish the Type I govt and use the cheat to rebuild your previous govt (assuming you spent 4 or more turns creating a Type I-III govt), or have one city state dedicated towards producing mercenary generals, and then send them off to lead armies. Preferably a city state with a good temple and a blacksmith, that way your general is off on a good start. Hopefully he has good traits, if not, just send him off to pick on some enemy armies and auto-resolve until he dies. Maybe give him some left over units or levies under his command. Who knows, he might be useful to you.

Another way could be modding Mistophoros Strategos to be FM instead of Somatophylakes Strategou. I'm sure someone knows how to change the KH FM's to be another unit. I would prefer to change them to Hippeis Thessalikoi, which is the best heavy cavalry available to KH. Maybe someone could write in a script where the FM changes to Somatophylakes Strategou once you conquer Macedon or Epeiros. That way it feels like you earned them and gained access to territory where it was possible to raise good heavy cavalry and nobles with the skills to fight as them.

Recruitment area of Mistophoros Strategos

[War lord]

The Greeks weren't generally a Horse using people, their native area lacks land suitable for breeding enough high quality horses to make up a sizable Heavy Cavalry component. Additionally, unlike many other Cultures the Cavalry wasn't seen as a high status position on the battlefield by the time of EB. All the Honour came from fighting as a Hoplite. Considering how slow the City States were to adopt something as simple and necessary as fielding Infantry that wasn't hopelessly outdated in equipment. Making them arbitrarily adopt imitation Hetairoi is a little silly.

[Saint_of_Battle]

If you need cavalry, conquer Epeiros and Makedonia. Other than that, I HATE phalanxes. I prefer Hoplites over phalanxes any time.

[yuezhi]

If you need cavalry, conquer Epeiros and Makedonia. Other than that, I HATE phalanxes. I prefer Hoplites over phalanxes any time.

That sounds rather oxymoronic

[Saint_of_Battle]

I simply mean, I don't like the slow moving and difficult to manouver Pezhaiteroi and Phalangitai deuteroi (and of course every other phalangitai in the game). I prefer my hoplites who, even though are not fast moving and don't have good stamina, offer you HUGE flexibility on the battlefield, more fluidity. And when you conquer Epeiros and get your cavalry, you just charge the hoplites in and flank with your cavalry.

[yuezhi]

Well hoplites are a phalanx.