A little bit of history as to why the Egyptians have this style in Rome 2.

[DogSoldierSPQR]

When Ptolemy began his proper rule over the Egyptians in 305BC by declaring himself King, he let the local Egyptians live their own lives with their own religions and customs. He never forcibly converted them or anything like that. He just ruled them and made sure they knew who the new king was. He replaced the native higher class with the Greeks, so the natives had to look up to the Greeks as being "higher than they were". This obviously caused resentment on the side of the natives.

Ptolemy never forced the Egyptians in any way to convert to something else. Ptolemy himself started becoming more Egyptian by following their way of life and adopting a lot of the customs the Egyptians followed. That is why the Egyptians still have their traditional make-up, hairstyles and other cosmetic things like that...because they were allowed to. In the earliest times of the Ptolemaic empire, the majority of the army were ethnic Greeks who came over and settled, and were offered land in return for military service.

Down the line, wars came and went, Greek numbers were much more smaller and the immigration to Egypt from Greece and areas from there were becoming almost non-existent. They had to find solutions and ultimately they came to the solution of employing the locals in a much more larger quantity. The natives, STILL living the way they lived before Ptolemy came, were trained in the Hellenistic fashion of warfare. Just because they fought in the Hellenistic fashion, it does not mean they looked and dressed like stereotypical Hellenistic soldiers.

When the Romans started using auxiliaries, they never let them dress completely the same as the regular Roman units. Same thing here. The higher class Greeks didn't trust the Egyptians very much due to sporadic revolts and the fact that Egyptian soldiers were known to aid those revolts at times. Egyptians did go to battle fighting in the Hellenistic style but they definitely dressed more cultural and you wouldn't exactly see them looking like Hypaspists or anything like that.

So the fact that the native units in the Egyptian roster will have make-up is welcomed by me. It shows you that these Egyptian units are proud of what they are, which they would have been, and it also makes you feel like you are looking at proper Egyptians no matter if they are ruled by the Greeks and if they are trained in the Hellenistic fashion of fighting.

[Raikou]

Good post Dog +rep for you

[Narf]

Kudos to you.

[King Philip II]

+1 Rep A well written post.

[DogSoldierSPQR]

Thanks, guys. It just felt to me that those who disagreed with CA's decision probably didn't know this kind of information about Ptolemaic Egypt.

[AwareLine63779]

Spot on. I am pretty happy with Egypt at this point.

[Greve Af Göteborg]

I am also happy with CA's decision, the unit roster seems to be pretty nice.

[Rhaegar1]

When Ptolemy began his proper rule over the Egyptians in 305BC by declaring himself King, he let the local Egyptians live their own lives with their own religions and customs. He never forcibly converted them or anything like that. He just ruled them and made sure they knew who the new king was. He replaced the native higher class with the Greeks, so the natives had to look up to the Greeks as being "higher than they were". This obviously caused resentment on the side of the natives.

Ptolemy never forced the Egyptians in any way to convert to something else. Ptolemy himself started becoming more Egyptian by following their way of life and adopting a lot of the customs the Egyptians followed. That is why the Egyptians still have their traditional make-up, hairstyles and other cosmetic things like that...because they were allowed to. In the earliest times of the Ptolemaic empire, the majority of the army were ethnic Greeks who came over and settled, and were offered land in return for military service.

Down the line, wars came and went, Greek numbers were much more smaller and the immigration to Egypt from Greece and areas from there were becoming almost non-existent. They had to find solutions and ultimately they came to the solution of employing the locals in a much more larger quantity. The natives, STILL living the way they lived before Ptolemy came, were trained in the Hellenistic fashion of warfare. Just because they fought in the Hellenistic fashion, it does not mean they looked and dressed like stereotypical Hellenistic soldiers.

When the Romans started using auxiliaries, they never let them dress completely the same as the regular Roman units. Same thing here. The higher class Greeks didn't trust the Egyptians very much due to sporadic revolts and the fact that Egyptian soldiers were known to aid those revolts at times. Egyptians did go to battle fighting in the Hellenistic style but they definitely dressed more cultural and you wouldn't exactly see them looking like Hypaspists or anything like that.

So the fact that the native units in the Egyptian roster will have make-up is welcomed by me. It shows you that these Egyptian units are proud of what they are, which they would have been, and it also makes you feel like you are looking at proper Egyptians no matter if they are ruled by the Greeks and if they are trained in the Hellenistic fashion of fighting.

Good post.

[Salvator]

Thank you for the clarification. I am glad they made the Egyptians look like this. If the Egyptian faction is just a clone of a typical greek faction set on the Nile, I would have been dissapointed.
Variation is all that matters, and for the sake of gameplay, I welcome such differentiation even if they are not so historical.

[IlluminatiRex]

Great post dude

[Marcus Claudius Marcellus]

There simply has to be differentiation between the Hellenic nations. Otherwise they will all just be different coloured phalangites, cavalry and peltasts. I back this move by CA, and it seems historical so.

[King Philip II]

It was a good post, however, it does not belong in the TWR2 forum. Sorry guys, it needs to be moved to VV. Get cracking Mods.

[spartan_warrior]

It was a good post, however, it does not belong in the TWR2 forum. Sorry guys, it needs to be moved to VV. Get cracking Mods.

Calm down there, this topic is fine for this sub-forum. It will keep all the hellenophiles from arguing that Egypt's inaccurate. Besides a mod already edited your last post, so obviously it's fine where it is.

Anyways, OP good post. At the start of this game, the Greek's had only ruled Egypt for about 50 years, so Egyptian culture would still be very much present.

[StealthFox]

It was a good post, however, it does not belong in the TWR2 forum. Sorry guys, it needs to be moved to VV. Get cracking Mods.

The thread covers how Egyptians are depicted in Rome II. It's perfectly fine here.

PM me with any further concerns on this. Any future posts on this will be deleted as off topic and risks receiving infraction points.

[panzerschreck]

Do we have illustrations of the egyptian army of Cleopatra?

[alex man142]

Until the battle of Raphia in 217, the only soldiers allowed in the Ptolemaic army were Greeks and mercenaries. That being said, in the trailer I did notice Hellenistic Cavalry and in a picture I did see phalangites.

When Antiochus invaded Gaza, the Ptolomeys organized an army of mercenaries and Greeks but they did not have the numbers to counter the large Seleucid army. As a result, the Greek's trained around 20,000-30,000 natives (the FIRST TIME) to fight. These natives did very well and aided in the Ptolemaic victory at Raphia. The Ptolomeys were by no means an Egyptian led nation. CA's representation is VERY a-historical; by the time of the Battle of the Nile, the Ptolemaic army was essentially pirates and deserted Romans. Never did the Maimochi actually make up a majority of the Ptolemaic Army.

[Orphydian]

Im just curious: could Egypt be more stereotypical than its depicted here ? I havent senn not even a sinlgle hellenistic unit ?

[Prince Regent George]

When Ptolemy began his proper rule over the Egyptians in 305BC by declaring himself King, he let the local Egyptians live their own lives with their own religions and customs. He never forcibly converted them or anything like that. He just ruled them and made sure they knew who the new king was.

Ptolemy never forced the Egyptians in any way to convert to something else. Ptolemy himself started becoming more Egyptian by following their way of life and adopting a lot of the customs the Egyptians followed.

Ptolemy I may have done it, but what about his successors? Most of them didn't respect much the natives. Even Ptolemaeus' I policy is debatable, since all the ancient sources are favourable to him.

He just ruled them and made sure they knew who the new king was. He replaced the native higher class with the Greeks, so the natives had to look up to the Greeks as being "higher than they were". This obviously caused resentment on the side of the natives.

It may have caused resentment among the upper class, which, however, wasn't the ruling one, even before Ptolemaeus I (Persian Occupation). However, I don't see how it affected the lower classes.

Ptolemy himself started becoming more Egyptian by following their way of life and adopting a lot of the customs the Egyptians followed.

Irrelevant. The discussion concerns the external appearance of the Ptolemeans, which wasn't affected at all by the egyptian fashion.

That is why the Egyptians still have their traditional make-up, hairstyles and other cosmetic things like that...because they were allowed to. In the earliest times of the Ptolemaic empire, the majority of the army were ethnic Greeks who came over and settled, and were offered land in return for military service.

The fact that the Greeks didn't forbid these activities doesn't mean that the Egyptians were still excercising them. Multinational coexistence creates a multicultural atmosphere, which transforms permanently certain aspects of civilization (e.g. eyeliners).

Down the line, wars came and went, Greek numbers were much more smaller and the immigration to Egypt from Greece and areas from there were becoming almost non-existent.

Completely wrong. The numbers of greeks were amplifying continually, because of reproduction (improved by the better circumstances of life), immigration from the crumbling Greece and mixed weddings (Always, the couples adopted the greek culture because of the advantages concerning the status quo).

They had to find solutions and ultimately they came to the solution of employing the locals in a much more larger quantity. The natives, STILL living the way they lived before Ptolemy came, were trained in the Hellenistic fashion of warfare. Just because they fought in the Hellenistic fashion, it does not mean they looked and dressed like stereotypical Hellenistic soldiers.

It's true that they started to recruit the natives, but still the greek units were the vast majority in the Ptolemaic armies, something which, so far, is not depicted in the screenshots.

Egyptians did go to battle fighting in the Hellenistic style but they definitely dressed more cultural and you wouldn't exactly see them looking like Hypaspists or anything like that.

Since the equipment is provided by the state (apart from the case of militia, where I agree with the more exotic "flavour"), I don't see the differences you mention.

So the fact that the native units in the Egyptian roster will have make-up is welcomed by me. It shows you that these Egyptian units are proud of what they are, which they would have been, and it also makes you feel like you are looking at proper Egyptians no matter if they are ruled by the Greeks and if they are trained in the Hellenistic fashion of fighting.

I like it too, but trying to harmonize it with historical accuracy is hypocritic.

Concusion: Of course, the greeks didn't vanish the egyptian culture (which wasn't pure at all, considering the Assyrian and Achaemenid conquests). However, it's undeniable that the large cities, such as Ptolemais and Alexandreia (Memphis was unimportant), had a neglectable egyptian influence. The same applies to the army, considering that the egyptian militia was a rather small portion of the army. In contrary, it's true that, in the countryside, the egyptian culture was the dominant one. However, the images don't depict rural themes, but they focus on urban life and war.

[Orphydian]

native egyptian units should have been somewhat like this ones not with bronze age equipment

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[Dan113112]

native egyptian units should have been somewhat like this ones not with bronze age equipment

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

That's just one interpretation. Even EB has an Egyptian unit that looks nearly the same as the levy pikmen unit from TWR2. Egyptians did wear cloth caps and what appears to be linen armor at the time. Since they are native levies I doubt you'd see many Hellenistic helmets. Maybe in proper Macedonian/Greek phalanx pikemen but rarely in native levies.