Company of Heroes 2 and Rome II: Pre-Release Discussion

[BeastG33]

I'm somewhat curious if anyone here has been following COH 2 along with Rome II. If you haven't, COH 2 just yesterday released a two week public beta. If you own the new Steam version of the original Company of Heroes, the beta automatically appeared in your library and was available to download. Several maps are available, online PvP (1v1, 2v2, 3v3, and 4v4), as well as skirmishes vs the AI. Even elements of the army and commander progression / customization system are available, and all progress and achievements will carry over to the full launch if you purchase the full game within 60 days of release. While at this point, I'll agree it's more of a demo than a beta, the feedback Relic will get from these two weeks and the massive audience of players testing their game will be hugely beneficial to early title updates, allowing the studio to quicker address bugs and balancing issues.

This open beta arrives after a period of time where COH 2 was in closed beta, which you could enter if you had preordered or liked the game on Facebook. The closed beta was preceded by a smaller (but still open to random / outside players) closed alpha trial. I do not remember when these versions were released, but I know at least the alpha version was some time ago, and certainly sooner than 3 months before launch. Since the alpha, there have been many changes based on community feedback and further progression of the game, notably the switching of the two sides from green vs. red on the tactical map to red vs. blue (apparently no one at Relic had heard of color-blindness) and a significant reduction in the power of certain units and further balancing between factions.

Company of Heroes 2 is published by Sega.

You guys can see where I'm going with this....

I believe it has been stated, I think by Craig here on the forums, that there will absolutely be no Rome II beta. I'd just like to ask why? I believe Fall of the Samurai had a closed beta; what has changed with Rome? Clearly, it isn't a publisher issue because Company of Heroes 2 is published by the same company and they have allowed the community to test their unfinished game for months. This must be purely a CA decision. So what gives?

It is bad enough that when you go to arguably the biggest gaming website on the Internet, the latest preview for Rome II is from July 12, 2012. I mean, really CA? Look at this list:

Total War: Rome II Release Date Announced
May 9, 2013 - SEGA has revealed when Total War: Rome II will hit shelves and what you'll get in the Collector's Edition.

Pontus Faction Coming to Total War: Rome 2 for Free
April 26, 2013 - Creative Assembly has announced a ninth playable faction coming as free day-one DLC to Total War: Rome 2.

50 PC Exclusive Games in 2013
January 18, 2013 - Into PC gaming? Check out this selection of platform exclusive games on the schedule for 2013.

Top 10 Most Anticipated PC Games of 2013
January 4, 2013 - From SimCity to StarCraft II: Heart of the Swarm to BioShock Infinite, our PC editors list their picks.

SEGA Inks New Partnership With Games Workshop
December 6, 2012 - SEGA and Creative Assembly are teaming up with Games Workshop to develop new games in the Warhammer franchise.

Making a Bigger War in Rome 2
July 12, 2012 - We talk with Creative Assembly about how they're building a sequel to arguably the best Total War game.

Total War: Rome II Shows War's Human Side
July 2, 2012 - With Rome: Total War II, Creative Assembly is setting is sights as high as they've ever been.

New Total War Game in Development
May 17, 2011 - Are you still playing Shogun 2? Well, Creative Assembly is working hard to make sure the series continues.

Source: http://www.ign.com/articles/games/ro...ar-2/pc-136961

Those are ALL the Rome II articles on IGN. I'm not critical very often but that's just sad; half of them are just opinion pieces by IGN editors that merely mentioned Rome II in passing. I know E3 is next week and we are just going to be oh-so-overwhelmed with new info, but that list above... less than three months before launch... it is very frustrating for me as a long-time fan of the series.

TL;DR

This is supposed to be the biggest Total War game yet, but it doesn't seem like CA is treating it as such, which is a shame. The lack of info and any sort of pre-release community trial is a mistake, especially when the next biggest RTS of the year has been so rigorously tested by the community and hardcore fans of the game. Not to mention the fact that recent TW releases have been uh... a little buggy at launch, to say the least. We all just want the best Total War experience possible; let us help you out this summer. Make the Rome II open beta appear automatically in the Steam library for anyone who owns Shogun 2 in early August. Given the lack of info since announcing the game, it'd be a nice way of giving something back to the fans.

I hope this post doesn't come off as entitled. I know CA doesn't owe us a beta or more info, and I have huge respect for Craig and Will and the hard work they put into the Rally Points, but I'm just astonished when I compare these two games, both AAA RTS titles published by the same company coming out two months apart, and how differently the two developers are treating their games and their fans before launch.

[SturmChurro]

I have the beta and never had Company of Heroes on Steam. I won't buy it either full price. Don't have the money to pre-order 4-5 games at full price this time of year..

The "beta" of Company of Heroes 2 is like a demo (which you stated) and only includes multiplayer. So what are you arguing for? Multiplayer pre-release?

[DogSoldierSPQR]

A beta could do a lot of good for Rome 2. I think maybe they want to go for that special release where you are surprised with the whole bunch of new things CA have put in Rome 2 this time around. I don't think they want to be spoiling it with a beta. I think it has to come down to the surprise factor really. It also explains why CA is giving us information, but not too much of it. They held back campaign information for as long as possible because of the amount of changes they put in it and because Rome 2 as a Total War game has changed so much, they want us to be amazed by the changes and improvements when we play it for ourselves for the first time. That's just my take on it. A beta can really help toward a clean-release for a game by finding bugs, but I really do think CA has a surprise in store for us with Rome 2 that a beta would spoil.

[osros]

A beta could do a lot of good for Rome 2. I think maybe they want to go for that special release where you are surprised with the whole bunch of new things CA have put in Rome 2 this time around. I don't think they want to be spoiling it with a beta. I think it has to come down to the surprise factor really. It also explains why CA is giving us information, but not too much of it. They held back campaign information for as long as possible because of the amount of changes they put in it and because Rome 2 as a Total War game has changed so much, they want us to be amazed by the changes and improvements when we play it for ourselves for the first time. That's just my take on it. A beta can really help toward a clean-release for a game by finding bugs, but I really do think CA has a surprise in store for us with Rome 2 that a beta would spoil.

Agree, CA Is holding back big time and I think we gonna see a lot of good things, but also not going to get all the realism we want. It makes the waiting a bit worse this lack of steady stream of info, just wish a nice screen shot a week or unit model, tidbit of info a week would be nice and we have something real to discuss and not all the, what ifs or would be nice to have this or that..

[Toho]

every owner of shogun 2 or the original rome should be given this... it sounds pretty cool to have.

[CnConrad]

Where did Craig say "Absolutely no beta"? I have been watching the dev posts pretty close and have not seen any flat out denials.

[SturmChurro]

I can't even play the tutorial mission in this beta, leaving me completely clueless. I don't even know how to be able to build more buildings past the one you start with as Germans!



I really don't know what you are arguing for. Personally, I would rather have a demo pre-release than a heavily restricted beta like this.

[Gorhaax]

The Fall of the Samurai closed beta, which was a week or 2, was for multiplayer not singleplayer.

[CnConrad]

I really liked the shogun 2 demo, I would be happy with a copy paste of that as romans.

[RGA]

Company of Heroes is a multiplayer-orientated game. Balance is very important, that's why they would release a demo for the final evaluation from "demo-testers". R2TW is on the other hand singleplayer-orientated. That's why CA revealed tons of features to whet our appetite. Different games, different approach.

[SturmChurro]

Company of Heroes is a multiplayer-orientated game. Balance is very important, that's why they would release a demo for the final evaluation from "demo-testers". R2TW is on the other hand singleplayer-orientated. That's why CA revealed tons of features to whet our appetite. Different games, different approach.

Yeah, that is what I was thinking. That's why I am wondering what is supposedly wanted from the OP.

Don't get me wrong either I think a beta for Total War multiplayer would be great!...as long as there is a tutorial..

[Karnil Vark Khaitan]

Yeah, that is what I was thinking. That's why I am wondering what is supposedly wanted from the OP.

Don't get me wrong either I think a beta for Total War multiplayer would be great!...as long as there is a tutorial..

you take the pioneers a click on the "house button" which is yellow choose which building to build.

[Antissa]

Company of Heroes is a multiplayer-orientated game. Balance is very important, that's why they would release a demo for the final evaluation from "demo-testers". R2TW is on the other hand singleplayer-orientated. That's why CA revealed tons of features to whet our appetite. Different games, different approach.

Exactly.

[Ichon]

Company of Heroes is a multiplayer-orientated game. Balance is very important, that's why they would release a demo for the final evaluation from "demo-testers". R2TW is on the other hand singleplayer-orientated. That's why CA revealed tons of features to whet our appetite. Different games, different approach.

Exactly. As well CA is changing more things in my opinion with Rome 2 than were changed from CoH to CoH2. I play CoH almost exclusively multi- not even sure what or how many SP campaigns it has. It is nearly the opposite with TW for me where I've dabbled in multi but mostly have only experienced drop in battles (which are quite few disappointingly but always fun when it happens).

I do believe Rome 2 could benefit from a closed beta similar to what CA has done before but I don't really expect it until the expansions.

[Kenios]

Creative Assembly works within their own schedule. Just because the rate they release info does not suit your idea of how fast they should does not mean they are not treating it as their biggest title release. Your post just seems really entitled.

[Markas]

Additionally, Relic were likely affected by THQ going under and Sega may well have had misgivings about the state of the game, so a beta seems logical to me if only to reassure the publisher. CA have had no such set-backs that I can think of.

[panzerschreck]

If there is a beta of Rome 2, I hope it will be singleplayer. For FOTS, I had to unlock all the units in multiplayer, very very boring and lost of time.

For me the only advantage of a beta is to see where are the bugs and correct them before release. What I want more is new screenshots and videos because there are too few infos by now.

[ISG01]

They're two completely different games in terms of focus, play style and aims.

Yes, CA is aiming for a sizeable MP community with Total War nowadays, but it is nothing like the goals the people at Relic have with Company of Heroes, which is to make a Starcraft-like Multiplayer RTS experience which needs a very careful balance, much more careful than the balance needed in Total War, where so much more matters than individual unit statistics.

If a Beta helps CA, they should do it by all means, but just because a real RTS like CoH (Total War is not an RTS) does it to perfect their multiplayer balance, does not mean we need it to check out single player or the very different multiplayer mode.

[Jungle Rhino]

The primary reason for Betas these days appears to be to generate presales (or legacy sales as in the case of COH) by charging people for the privilege of participating. As far as genuine game balance goes it is really only a big issue if you have a heavy focus on multiplayer - which Rome2 doesn't appear to given what we have seen so far (i.e. nothing )

Personally I think a beta for Rome2 would only serve as a distraction for the development team and it also runs the risk of driving off fans/players before the game as at the final, polished state (see Mechwarrior: Online)

The Shogun2 Demo if I remember actually came out after the game I think? (could be wrong there) so we may even see a Rome2 demo at a later date?

[osros]

The primary reason for Betas these days appears to be to generate presales (or legacy sales as in the case of COH) by charging people for the privilege of participating. As far as genuine game balance goes it is really only a big issue if you have a heavy focus on multiplayer - which Rome2 doesn't appear to given what we have seen so far (i.e. nothing )

Personally I think a beta for Rome2 would only serve as a distraction for the development team and it also runs the risk of driving off fans/players before the game as at the final, polished state (see Mechwarrior: Online)

The Shogun2 Demo if I remember actually came out after the game I think? (could be wrong there) so we may even see a Rome2 demo at a later date?

Agree, would not be benefit CA other to create more unwelcome posts. They know what they want and don't want to do. Besides Beta testing starts on Sept 3rd.