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Thread: [book launch] Roman Military History (Römische Militärgeschichte) - reconstruction trial of a roman troop list of the sixth century

  1. #41
    Pompeius Magnus's Avatar primus inter pares
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    Default Re: [book launch] Roman Military History (Römische Militärgeschichte) - reconstruction trial of a roman troop list of the sixth century

    A small update concerning the next book, which includes (beside other issues) a new german translation of the Strategikon. It is however not just of interest if someone speaks german. You get also the greek text of that book - which is missing in Dennis' book. That means also many many coloured pictures and plates.
    Last edited by Pompeius Magnus; August 31, 2015 at 07:05 PM.

  2. #42
    Sertorio's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: [book launch] Roman Military History (Römische Militärgeschichte) - reconstruction trial of a roman troop list of the sixth century

    And about an English translation ? May we hope in a future nearby ? Cheers
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  3. #43
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    Default Re: [book launch] Roman Military History (Römische Militärgeschichte) - reconstruction trial of a roman troop list of the sixth century

    well, Philip Rance has promised somewhere in the past a new english translation.
    Since the grammar is difficult enough in german, I'm not sure if I'm the right Person to provide a good english translation. But thank you for your question.
    At the Moment the most prominent english version is that of George T. Dennis - without showing the original text - as everybody know. Therefore the book is (for historians) difficult to use - not to say "useless". Sounds hard, but if your read the original book you'll know what I mean.

    Of course I may offer something just focused on the Strategikon chapter 12. But in that case I have to remove many issues which are provided by the german Version.

    The book furthermore provides (beside the translation of the Strategikon chapter 12) several other chapers, including flags and Banners, reconstructions of equipment e.g. helmets and weapons etc.
    The deployment of Roman Forces will be evaluated as well by using several examples of battles (Daras, Solachon, Taginae, Tricamarum etc). Last but not least a chapter about dignities and titles, the evaluation of cavalry regiments - finally leading in divisions called Illyricani and so on.
    Before I forget I should mention the slabs of Perge too - showing or describing the internal order of a "Legion". I will offer there another solution since I don't believe that this unit was a Legion, at least not initially.

  4. #44

    Default Re: [book launch] Roman Military History (Römische Militärgeschichte) - reconstruction trial of a roman troop list of the sixth century

    MANY Congratulations.

    I suppose you know Greek, so a modern Greek translation (of ALL of your works) would be perfect, specially if an institution ( http://ejournals.epublishing.ekt.gr/index.php/bz/index )
    could support this, though because of crisis, may not possible.

    ======================

    I am interesting connecting later times with the past, though is difficult :

    The reference of a part of Makedones of imperial guard (a similar one existed to 10th century) in middle 14th century guarding the great Prison in Constantinople [consisting of Tsakones=medieval Spartans/Lacones pagans which refer as marines, sailors, imperial body guards, and refer also as special guard of castles],- but not mentioned elsewhere - shows us that an existence of parts of the previous tagmata perhaps, with the older names or under new names or in different duties, may existed. see http://www.amazon.com/Tzacones-Suppl.../dp/3110047993
    (I mention it as 'anax' to http://historum.com/medieval-byzanti...man-elite.html >search to google with words historum anax tsacones to find more)

    It would be for me much interesting of what happened to Laconicos and Pitanatis lochi (Laconic units) of the Roman army to later times, if absorbed from V Makedonica legion and refer as Makedones for example, see post 716 at http://historum.com/ancient-history/...hoplite-5.html

    =========================

    Also if you interested of the subject, have a look at this work of Raffaele D'Amato that contain some mentions of my book 'about Tsacones' : https://www.academia.edu/12021318/Ga..._and_equipment

    --------------

    Anyway, if you find any connection that connects the later units and special the Lacones/Tsacones/Spartans with the older units, please refer.

    I have only a refer about some other units which survived to later times, like the in 949, Thracesian's Theme senior-most officers were, in order of rank, the tourmarchēs of the Theodosiakoi, the tourmarchēs of the Viktores, the tourmarchēs of the seacoast (tēs paraliou), and a meriarchēs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thracesian_Theme

    -------------

    Also have a look at the flags of later Roman state/Byzantium (I have re upload some of the photos of symbols to my latest post at last page as the first pages ones no host more) http://historum.com/medieval-byzanti...zantium-6.html

    -------------


    Congratulations again, AND have a good time.

  5. #45
    Sertorio's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: [book launch] Roman Military History (Römische Militärgeschichte) - reconstruction trial of a roman troop list of the sixth century

    Quote Originally Posted by Pompeius Magnus View Post
    well, Philip Rance has promised somewhere in the past a new english translation.
    Since the grammar is difficult enough in german, I'm not sure if I'm the right Person to provide a good english translation. But thank you for your question.
    At the Moment the most prominent english version is that of George T. Dennis - without showing the original text - as everybody know. Therefore the book is (for historians) difficult to use - not to say "useless". Sounds hard, but if your read the original book you'll know what I mean.

    Of course I may offer something just focused on the Strategikon chapter 12. But in that case I have to remove many issues which are provided by the german Version.

    The book furthermore provides (beside the translation of the Strategikon chapter 12) several other chapers, including flags and Banners, reconstructions of equipment e.g. helmets and weapons etc.
    The deployment of Roman Forces will be evaluated as well by using several examples of battles (Daras, Solachon, Taginae, Tricamarum etc). Last but not least a chapter about dignities and titles, the evaluation of cavalry regiments - finally leading in divisions called Illyricani and so on.
    Before I forget I should mention the slabs of Perge too - showing or describing the internal order of a "Legion". I will offer there another solution since I don't believe that this unit was a Legion, at least not initially.
    I was refering to Roman Military History (Römische Militärgeschichte) - reconstruction trial of a roman troop list of the sixth century

    Will it be translated to English? It would be great.
    Texture works by Sertorio, banner courtesy of Joar

    My AAR for VGRII-AQUILAE

  6. #46
    Pompeius Magnus's Avatar primus inter pares
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    Default Re: [book launch] Roman Military History (Römische Militärgeschichte) - reconstruction trial of a roman troop list of the sixth century

    @ dear Sertorius
    since I got so many requests in the last months - YES I make it :-)
    Next year is time for a new second edition in german (mistake clearing and adding of new grafics) - and this can be done hand-in-hand with an english Version.
    The only thing is that my Publisher must help me with some grammar and fault corrections - otherwise it becomes awful for my english readers. :-)

    @ dear Idas
    the issue for checking late or high byzantine unit names is difficult. I have spent many years regarding this question and I may tell you that all names e.g. Gazmouloi, Theodosiaki, Viktores (etc.) are names of larger army-groups - in some cases of complete divisions.
    If we take the high byzantine examples of the Tiberiaci, Illyriani (Illyriciani), Foederati, Constantiniani (some of them even known from the Strategikon) you cannot find anymore individual regiments by that names. Those regiments are just named by a continuous number. This development has begun somewhere at the end of the 6th century and can also be observed epigraphically by the units stationed in Ravenna. But also other documents of steels, slabs or Papyri confirm my observation. Examples are the 15th Bandon of Theodosiaki, the second Bandon of Constantiniani, the Bandus Primus (the first regiment) and Bandus Secundus (the second regiment) in Ravenna and many others - are just speaking about numbers.

    A misinterpretation always took place when one declared the Bandon to the subunit of a Numerus.
    I could, however, prove on several occasions to that a Numerus in most cases was an infantry regiment - and a Bandon a cavalry Regiment (at least until the sixth century).
    Also the Taktika of Leo VI. confirms that a Bandon was never a subunit of a larger Bandon. Ergo: when you read of the 15th Bandon of the Theodosiaci - it was indeed the 15th indipendent regiment of a division called the Theodosians! (it was not the 15th subunit of a Regiment called the Theodosians, beside the fact that I never heard about a regiment in late antquity which was subdivided by at least 15 parts)

    That the superior name from a division (e.g. Theodosiaki) originally derives from an old Regiment is no question. On the other hand it is also possible that many units with the same name were grouped together into one divion of the same name. There were many regiments in Roman east with the term "Illyriciani" or "Dalmati". It seems likely that all (or most) of them were grouped together. The name of the "Victores" means in the first instance just "the Victorious" - and it's by far not evidenced that the name derives from the old 500-men auxilia "Victores".
    Also the group of Theodosiaci is most likely named by units in respect to the Theodosian Walls or (more likely) many Theodosian regiments were grouped into the same division. There were so many units by that name in the east, that it's impossible to say which unit exactly borrowed its name to the new division.

    Last but not least I could give a good dozen of examples that all new (but also old) regiments were officially named by a continuous number. This number was probably displayed on the regimental banner of the unit. "If" some regiments, old units etc. were still carrying an individual name is difficult to say. If a unit had no continuous number in the 7th century we can observe a naming after the City in which they were deployed (e.g. Numerus Mediolanensium in Milano). Likewise interesting is the fact that old regiments (with an ancient unit name!) were partially "renamed" after their city in which they were garrisoned for so long - as one can observe in many cases concerning the garrisons in Italy.

    Finding ancient units must be altogether carried out differently with respect to the middle Byzantine period. Many unknown factors making a serious analysis difficult, sometimes impossible.
    So much remains speculative. The mere mention of a name in a source is not enough to produce an analogy to the ancient Roman Empire. That some ancient units had survived far into the 10th or 11th centuries (of even beyond) is no question as we can observe in the case of the Excubitores. However, even the later Excubitores were more a division composed by several regiments. It is clear that this unit wasn't the same small troop like in 500AD.
    Last edited by Pompeius Magnus; November 18, 2015 at 07:11 PM.

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