Suggested for correction(MOS)

[saamohod]

There are some points I discovered in this game that I believe need to be addressed by some way or another. I play MOS submod along with "expanded map" and "director's cut" addons. I'm not sure if these issues are vanilla TATW based or are they a result of submods, therefore I confine myself to posting it here.
So, I play as Gondor. That's what I have discovered:
1) Arnach has two identical Libraries and two identical Schools that can both be built from building roster.
2) Arnach again. By their description, Knight's Stables and Baron's Stables do not add any units, despite commanding normally high price for their construction.
3) I see no point in having Master Armourer building for Gondor since none of its units benefit from Full Plate upgrade.
4) I want to suggest that the price of a road upgrade be adjusted to it's actual length. It is utterly illogical that almost non-existent roads of cities like Cair Andros or West Osgiliath have the same price as long-stretched roads of other provinces.
5) Gondor Cavalry, despite wielding shields, has zero shield defence value (as one would suggest of a unit that has no shield).
What do you people think on this? Correct me if I'm wrong.


Test results:
1) and 2) tested on MOS no submods, no issues there.

Didn't test 3). Lost patience while waiting for heavy infantry to appear available for purchase

4) is not a bug actually but a reasonable suggestion.

Problem 5) is also not present in pure MOS (the reason why Gondor Cavalry has shields but has zero defense value for them is because in MOS Gondor Cavalry and Gondor Knights are the same model on battlefield, and Knights DO have shields. Looks like a definite bug).

So the conclusion would be that it is either Extended Map to blame, or Directors cut, or both.

[Mr.Jox]

I think you had to write this in MOS thread 'coz it takes MOS, not vanilla.

[Ngugi]

I'll leave it pending here, as it's unclear weither it's MOS or it's submods that is/are the issue(s).

[saamohod]

First post edited. Please have a look.
Now planning to test on MOS only without the two submods.

[saamohod]

Tested with MOS only. The issues did not appear, therefore it's either Director's Cut bugs or the Extended Map. MOS itself is not a suspect. Verdict: not guilty.

[dIRECT0R]

I could tell you whether or not its dIRECT0R's Cut, but I'm unable to fix anything at the moment.

1)/2) Probably a DC issue.. where's Arnach exactly?

3) You're absolutely right. However, the way I found it was that all armor upgrade buildings did upgrade units - but one could barely ever use them as they were near-impossible to get. If I recall, the only place you could reasonably expect to build the highest-tier armourer building was Minas Tirith, and after 50 turns or so. I did not like the idea of haiving a third tier for Gondor elite units, without giving the player the ability to use them in any significant way. Particularly since they're the Gondor armour from the movie.. So I lowered the upgrade level one notch. Now, in DC, one can get them in Minas Tirith, Pelargir, and the two Osgiliaths.
You're right, though: we need to get rid of the extra buildings.

4) Not really a bug... either way, this isn't DC. I agree, though. I'm not that sure, however, whether that's at all possible in Medieval II?

5) Its also not really a "bug".. in that it was intentional. I wanted to introduce shields to the Gondor Cavalry model, for reasons of realism and appearance. The only reason their shields were crapped (they had them in a previous version of MOS), was that the Knights of Minas Tirith unit was introduced, and someone probably thought it necessary to introduce some difference in model appearance. Not a fan.. probably should have scrapped the "Knights of Minas Tirith" unit myself, but there so "cool" I couldn't quite bring myself to do so.
The point is I did not want to overpower them and generally mess with the balance of the game (not being knowledgable in such matters). Thus, I left their stats the same. I do have plans to modify their shields, make them smaller.. but I'm a bit wary of overpowering their stats in EDU, always being careful not to upset the delicate balance of the game. Might ask for help there.

So #1 and #2 are real "bugs" and ought to be fixed.. not sure when I'll be able to do that, however. I was aware of #3, but never got around to removing the extra building. #5 was intentional, as I was not aware of the impact adding shield stats might have on Gondor's balance (cavalry being all-important and all). Also might fix it, but in essence its a question of appearance not corresponding with the stats exactly.. not really a big deal.

[knight of meh]

move south of Minas tirith then directly west hugging the mountains then you will find Arnach

[dIRECT0R]

move south of Minas tirith then directly west hugging the mountains then you will find Arnach

Right.. Lossarnach - not surprised. Well, I have a pretty good idea how #1 came to be... as for #2, I don't think that's a "bug" as such. Lossarnach shouldn't have any cavalry units besides its native cavalry, which you get rather early. You can, of course, continue to build more advanced stables.. Not sure. I'll have a look when I can, but don't expect a fix before the nex version for MOS 1.5.

What I did to Lossarnach is I made it a castle-type settlement and removed any leftover non-Lossarnach units from the roster thereof. Possible, the cavalry buildings for the Gondor Cavalry remained.. #2 is probably one of those problems that are inevitable when you have a different, custom rosters for specific settlements. Not sure I can limit construction there alone

[dIRECT0R]

Plus you'll find that Gondor Archers also have shields in DC, but don't have any shield stats . I thought they should have shields, I thought that was appropriate and looked good - I just don't know how to modify their stats so as not to overpower them. I'm primarily a model/texture modder.. and generally feel uneasy touching stuff I don't know about. "Perilous to us all are the devices of an art deeper than we posess ourselves"

[saamohod]

Thanx for the response, director.
On issue #5. My opinion, the only thing you need to do in order to correct this is to revert the Gondor Cavalry model back to original MOS battle model (which is appropriate and has no shields), and don't touch the Gondor Knights. No need to mess with the stats. Problem solved. I agree it's purely an aesthetic issue, but it matters for some people It's a bit annoying that an average cavalry unit and a superior cavalry unit look exactly the same on the battlefield.

[dIRECT0R]

Thanx for the response, director.
On issue #5. My opinion, the only thing you need to do in order to correct this is to revert the Gondor Cavalry model back to original MOS battle model (which is appropriate and has no shields), and don't touch the Gondor Knights. No need to mess with the stats. Problem solved. I agree it's purely an aesthetic issue, but it matters for some people It's a bit annoying that an average cavalry unit and a superior cavalry unit look exactly the same on the battlefield.

See, my concern there (as I said) is not to overpower Gondor. Gondor is a very strong faction and its game is far easier than it should be, in no small part due to everyone adding all sorts of things to it - such as elite units. Adding elite units also distorts previously-ok units: it makes no sense from a military perspective to have Medieval lancer heavy cavalry - without shields. I like the Gondor Knights, but they're clearly the same as Gondor Cavalry.. My current plan is to definitely change the shields of the Gondor Cavalry, give them smaller shields of an original sort (won't give them the militia cavalry shields). Perhaps I'll also give them the smallest of shield bonuses. All this when I return, however. Probably in the DC version for MOS 1.5.