BERSERKERS

[Sun Jetzu]

I was playing some good old fasioned Rome Total War yesterday, and faced a massive german army with my small Macedonian Force. They attacked me and tried to surround me and my pikes.
I secured my flanks with some cavalry but it was too late, I was surrounded! (I play the modded version of th game, great AI )
Anyway they sent in their Berserkers when the infantry fight got bogged down, and they went crazy and ran through my lines like butter. But then they ran through their lines...and then through their entire army!!!
After being flung a couple hundred times most of his army routed and my cavalry made quick work of them.
So my question is if these warriors will have the same ability this time around. It makes sense but again like elephants going crazy its a bit of a double edged sword. Also I know berserkers go crazy because of mushrooms, so if they have this ability when you use it will they just wip out some shrooms eat them then go red? Or I'm guessing if they dont have the ability then they will just be buffed units, but I do like the berserking part of it though. Lastley I read that actual berserkers are from viking times, so will the ones in the game be called berserkers or something else?

[yuezhi]

meh Wargband sounds wicked. nuff said.

[BunnyPoopCereal]

just imagine how many wolves they had to slaughter so they could have nice looking helmets...

[Sun Jetzu]

just imagine how many wolves they had to slaughter so they could have nice looking helmets...

obviously the entire pack my friend.
And the kiddie Berserkers have the cubs on their heads

[Grimbold]

just imagine how many wolves they had to slaughter so they could have nice looking helmets...

The North remembers...

[yuezhi]

The guys in the pic may be dressed for the part but definitely not armed for it.

[♠ Thomas Cochrane ♠]

Yeah that's probably my biggest dislike about all the units so far. Berserkers don't need wolfy hats! I mean sure, they look cool, but for crazed barbarians it seems very ordered and fashion conscious to set a requirement on the uniforms of a unit of crack-heads! I'd much prefer them to be less deliberate in their dress-codes!
Also, while we're on the topic, why do bersekers need shields?? seems a bit counter-intuitive!

[yuezhi]

Also, while we're on the topic, why do bersekers need shields?? seems a bit counter-intuitive!

These are berserkers? I thought they're just simple swordsmen.

[Hannarr]

Berserkers were know to kill friend and foe alike, the berserk state was not necessarily due to hallucinogens or inebriates. any such trait would have to be balanced but.

[♠ Thomas Cochrane ♠]

I believe on the wiki page the picture is called "berserkers"... which is quite definitive.

[Heathen Storm]

1st: Using mushrooms are a theory from the 50's. There has been a lot of studies of late on the effects of adrenaline and such. It is perfectly possible that the berserk rage simply came from a battle fury rather than some "magical" substance.2nd, I'd say these berserkers are based a great deal from the Old Norse berserkers, considering they have a common ancestry and religion. Berserkers were often described interchangeably in the Norse sagas as ulfheðnar, meaning "wolf coats". So dressing them in wolf skins is no far fetch either.3rd, the shields. Although wearing no armor, they are described specifically as having shields. See this quote from one of the Sagas;

With this was connected a great hot-headedness, which at last gave over into a great rage, under which they howled as wild animals, bit the edge of their shields, and cut down everything they met without discriminating between friend or foe

[|Sith|Galvanized Iron]

Lots of missunderstandings and ill informed guesses in this thread.

Also I know berserkers go crazy because of mushrooms, so if they have this ability when you use it will they just wip out some shrooms eat them then go red?

That would be ridiculous, first of all it does not make biological sense, when you ingest drugs orally there is quite a delay before they are digested, enters the blood and take effect so mushroom munching berserkers getting an instant high would be impossible, in the Total War timescale the battle would be over before they went berserk then. Unless you suggest that they smoke it or innjected it with a syringe?

Secondly, berserkers did not go berserk by digesting mushrooms? Ever digested mushrooms? It does not make you a berserker. Berserkers reach the state of berserking through voluntarily letting loose the rage which they build up before the battle through strict self-control, a berserker is that type of guy who you could slap in the face before the battle and he would just keep his cool and save it that anger to be extra pissed off in the battle.

Yeah that's probably my biggest dislike about all the units so far. Berserkers don't need wolfy hats! I mean sure, they look cool, but for crazed barbarians it seems very ordered and fashion conscious to set a requirement on the uniforms of a unit of crack-heads! I'd much prefer them to be less deliberate in their dress-codes!
Also, while we're on the topic, why do bersekers need shields?? seems a bit counter-intuitive!

Most uninformed post of them all. Berserkers are dressed in animal skins because their name means "Bear Capes", ring a bell? Berserkers were not crazed or crack heads, they were highly trained specialist warriors who were bred to be what they were, berserkagang was not a drug infused frenzy it was a highly focused state of mind that required a great deal of self control and anger management to achieve.

Berserkers are recorded as using all types of weapon setup, they did have regard for personal safety regardless of what the CA description said in RTW and shields are quite useful for bashing. Plus at this time axes were not common.

Berserkers were know to kill friend and foe alike

It was known? No it was not known, it's a product of your imagination multiplied with bad TV. Of course they did not randomly attack friendlies, there are no such recorded documents. If you are really pissed off do you beat up the person that angered you or you randomly go on a killing spree?

1st: Using mushrooms are a theory from the 50's. There has been a lot of studies of late on the effects of adrenaline and such. It is perfectly possible that the berserk rage simply came from a battle fury rather than some "magical" substance.2nd, I'd say these berserkers are based a great deal from the Old Norse berserkers, considering they have a common ancestry and religion. Berserkers were often described interchangeably in the Norse sagas as ulfheðnar, meaning "wolf coats". So dressing them in wolf skins is no far fetch either.3rd, the shields. Although wearing no armor, they are described specifically as having shields. See this quote from one of the Sagas;

Yes, correct.

Here is a picture that confirms that they indeed dressed in Wolf Skins:


Berserkers were often thought of as shapeshifters or man wolves (werevolves basicly) so most likely they dressed in animal hides to further reinforce the impression that they were changing into wild beasts.

The name berserker arose from their reputed habit of wearing a kind of shirt or coat (Old Norse: serkr) made from the pelt of a bear (Old Norse: ber-) during battle.
The term comes from the Old Norse berserkr (plural berserkir), meaning bear shirt and suggests the hide of the animal was worn as a robe.

To "go berserk" was to “hamask” which translates as “change form," in this case, a with the sense "enter a state of wild fury" and one who could transform as a berserker was typically thought of as “hamrammr” or “shapestrong.^[7]” ) For example, the band of men that go with Skallagrim in Egil’s Saga to see King Harald about his brother, Thorolf’s murder, they are described as, "all together there were twelve of them in the party, all the hardest of men, with a touch of the uncanny about a number of them…they [were] built and shaped more like trolls than human beings," which is generally interpreted as this band of men being hamrammr.^[8]

The earliest surviving reference to the term "berserker" is in Haraldskvæði, a skaldic poem composed by Thórbiörn Hornklofi in the late 9th century in honour of King Harald Fairhair, as ulfheðnar ("men clad in wolf skins"). This translation from the Haraldskvæði saga describes Harald's berserkers:
I'll ask of the berserks, you tasters of blood, Those intrepid heroes, how are they treated,
Those who wade out into battle?
Wolf-skinned they are called. In battle
They bear bloody shields.
Red with blood are their spears when they come to fight.
They form a closed group.
The prince in his wisdom puts trust in such men

Who hack through enemy shields.[

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berserker

Apperently berserkers seemed to be resistant to fire and iron, only truly vurnable to blunt weapons, which is odd:

Snorri's assertion that 'neither fire nor iron told upon them' is reiterated time after time, and the sources frequently state that neither edged weapons nor fire affected the berserks, although they were not immune to clubs or other blunt instruments. For example:

men asked Halfdan to attack Hardbeen and his champions man by man; and he not only promised to fight, but assured himself the victory with most confident words. When Hardbeen heard this, a demoniacal frenzy suddenly took him; he furiously bit and devoured the edges of his shield; he kept gulping down fiery coals; he snatched live embers in his mouth and let them pass down into his entrails; he rushed through the perils of crackling fires; and at last, when he had raved through every sort of madness, he turned his sword with raging hand against the hearts of six of his champions. It is doubtful whether this madness came from thirst for battle or natural ferocity. Then with the remaining band of his champions he attacked Halfdan, who crushed him with a hammer of wondrous size, so that he lost both victory and life; paying the penalty both to Halfdan, whom he had challenged, and to the kings whose offspring he had violently ravished...^[12]

[Sun Jetzu]

That would be ridiculous, first of all it does not make biological sense, when you ingest drugs orally there is quite a delay before they are digested, enters the blood and take effect so mushroom munching berserkers getting an instant high would be impossible, in the Total War timescale the battle would be over before they went berserk then. Unless you suggest that they smoke it or innjected it with a syringe?

hahaha I know alot about Orally injesting hallucinogens old friend lol jkjk .....but not really
I know what your saying, I guess I thought if it was an ability thats the only way it would make sense. It would suck if you "crack" the ability and he eats mushrooms, they go chill underneath a tree and wait till it kicks in lol
If this were the rule, then they could just wait there and have the mushrooms not even work. so then they finally go back into battle. kinda like a weapon that wont shoot in empire lol
Or the mushrooms are bad and they kill the entire unit lmao.
Either way, the best course of action would likley be just buffing the unit, dont make them go berserk either.

[PROMETHEUS ts]

That would be ridiculous, first of all it does not make biological sense, when you ingest drugs orally there is quite a delay before they are digested, enters the blood and take effect so mushroom munching berserkers getting an instant high would be impossible, in the Total War timescale the battle would be over before they went berserk then. Unless you suggest that they smoke it or innjected it with a syringe?

Secondly, berserkers did not go berserk by digesting mushrooms? Ever digested mushrooms? It does not make you a berserker. Berserkers reach the state of berserking through voluntarily letting loose the rage which they build up before the battle through strict self-control, a berserker is that type of guy who you could slap in the face before the battle and he would just keep his cool and save it that anger to be extra pissed off in the battle.


Most uninformed post of them all. Berserkers are dressed in animal skins because their name means "Bear Capes", ring a bell? Berserkers were not crazed or crack heads, they were highly trained specialist warriors who were bred to be what they were, berserkagang was not a drug infused frenzy it was a highly focused state of mind that required a great deal of self control and anger management to achieve.

Berserkers are recorded as using all types of weapon setup, they did have regard for personal safety regardless of what the CA description said in RTW and shields are quite useful for bashing. Plus at this time axes were not common.


It was known? No it was not known, it's a product of your imagination multiplied with bad TV. Of course they did not randomly attack friendlies, there are no such recorded documents. If you are really pissed off do you beat up the person that angered you or you randomly go on a killing spree?


Yes, correct.

That is simply not true,
Berserkers never exhisted in ancient times, its something that stems directly from the Norse culture .

Also the word means Bear shirt or skin not cape and its berserksgangr, and you can read their behaviour descriptions in the Hrólfs saga kraka ok kappa hans , Ynglingar saga , Egil saga .
modern teories talk of use of mushrooms , drugs , infuses, or even drunkness , and in English if not wrong to Go Berserk means to loose completely control and become undomitable .
Wich might explain the name of that "fantasy" unit for the timeframe .

[jakeswe]

That is simply not true, Berserkers never exhisted in ancient times, its something that stems directly from the Norse culture .Also the word means Bear Skin not cape and its berserksgangr, and you can read their behaviour descriptions in the Hrólfs saga kraka ok kappa hans , Ynglingar saga , Egil saga .modern teories talk of use of mushrooms , drugs , infuses, or even drunkness , and in English if not wrong to Go Berserk means to loose completely control and become undomitable .Wich might explain the name of that "fantasy" unit for the timeframe .

Wrong, it doesn't mean bear skin it means bear dress/cloth, google särk if you want to know where it comes from. Why would you try to pass on such faulty information?"Ulfhednar" means wolf-pelts though.That the berserkers would ingest mushrooms is also a myth, from 19th century typical nationalistic history-writing.edit: btw this buggy, unstable forum sucks. fix this ****.

[PROMETHEUS ts]

Wrong, it doesn't mean bear skin it means bear dress/cloth, google särk if you want to know where it comes from. Why would you try to pass on such faulty information?"Ulfhednar" means wolf-pelts though.That the berserkers would ingest mushrooms is also a myth, from 19th century typical nationalistic history-writing.edit: btw this buggy, unstable forum sucks. fix this ****.

I have studied ancient Norse Vocabulary for a personal PRoject , I referred in particular to Ancient English norse invaders and their influence in the language , The Norse word is Berserkr and it means Bear skin or bear shirt not cape .
Also the mushroom , drugs, drunk etc, its a modern theory , you can google around and find those references, I have no time to post links right now .
the Ulfhednar is another naming for similar unit type , but with different connotation .

[oOIYvYIOo]

I have studied ancient Norse Vocabulary for a personal PRoject , I referred in particular to Ancient English norse invaders and their influence in the language , The Norse word is Berserkr and it means Bear skin or bear shirt not cape .
Also the mushroom , drugs, drunk etc, its a modern theory , you can google around and find those references, I have no time to post links right now .
the Ulfhednar is another naming for similar unit type , but with different connotation .

My friend ,youre knowledge and culture continuos to surprise me .Just sharing is a big act.

[jakeswe]

I have studied ancient Norse Vocabulary for a personal PRoject , I referred in particular to Ancient English norse invaders and their influence in the language , The Norse word is Berserkr and it means Bear skin or bear shirt not cape .

No it means bear cloth/shirt. It doesn't mean bear skin. Get it? The other theory is ber would refer to bare as in bare cloth, they would go in naked in battle. But that theory holds no ground.

Also the mushroom , drugs, drunk etc, its a modern theory , you can google around and find those references, I have no time to post links right now .

Want me to post a source from 1784 on the berserk/mushroom connection? Please stop making things up. Today it's considered nothing but a myth.

[|Sith|Galvanized Iron]

That is simply not true,
Berserkers never exhisted in ancient times, its something that stems directly from the Norse culture .

First of all I was talkign about berserkers in general, not specifically Southern Germanic berserkers. Secondly you are wrong, it is very likely the early Southern Germanics also had berserkers since there are references to similiar warriors and they shared religious system with the Norse culture (common gods etc)

Also the word means Bear Skin not cape

Berserk is composed of 2 words: ber and serk. Ber means bear (or bare according to some). Serk literally means clothing material or dress or night dress (see picture). Actually it is "särk". Reason I translated it to cape was to make the translation clearer to non-norse speakers since "särk" is a pretty flexible word and in this case it would have the shape of a cape.

Translating särk as skin is of course completely nonsense and extremely idiotic and ignorant. Point is my translations is 10x better than yours.

Technically berserk could also mean berry dress...

and its berserksgangr

No it is not, that is an anglicized attempt to make the word looks strange and foreign, there would be no "r" at the end of the word unless it is in plural and that last "s" need to be replaced by an "a" if it is a Nordic language. Correct spelling is: "bärsärkagång"

modern teories talk of use of mushrooms , drugs , infuses, or even drunkness , and in English if not wrong to Go Berserk means to loose completely control and become undomitable.

That is obviously ********, try out some mushrooms and report back if it turns you into a berserker, ok?


There you go, plain as day.

[SirFork]

First of all I was talkign about berserkers in general, not specifically Southern Germanic berserkers. Secondly you are wrong, it is very likely the early Southern Germanics also had berserkers since there are references to similiar warriors and they shared religious system with the Norse culture (common gods etc)


Berserk is composed of 2 words: ber and serk. Ber means bear (or bare according to some). Serk literally means clothing material or dress or night dress (see picture). Actually it is "särk". Reason I translated it to cape was to make the translation clearer to non-norse speakers since "särk" is a pretty flexible word and in this case it would have the shape of a cape.

Translating särk as skin is of course completely nonsense and extremely idiotic and ignorant. Point is my translations is 10x better than yours.

Technically berserk could also mean berry dress...


No it is not, that is an anglicized attempt to make the word looks strange and foreign, there would be no "r" at the end of the word unless it is in plural and that last "s" need to be replaced by an "a" if it is a Nordic language. Correct spelling is: "bärsärkagång"


That is obviously ********, try out some mushrooms and report back if it turns you into a berserker, ok?


There you go, plain as day.

Mmh, seems like you're sensible here |Sith|Galvanized Iron ​i smell stink of fanboy.