Curial Reforms... Round II...

[m_1512]

As the name suggests, this is yet another thread about a long argued topic. Curial reforms...

Everyone says the Curia should do something different for example, or it's not useful for anything but medals. But no one has any exact or specific idea as to what that is. Not a single person. It has all been vague stuff really. It always has been. Anytime a plan comes up, it gets poo-pooed. Then eventually, people give up like you're doing, like we all have. The Curia as a medal giver isn't so bad. It's just not as good as it as it should be. If we lose the logic that somehow the Curia must re-invent the wheel or do anything other than make people feel welcome on TWC, then we lose sight of the Curia's real strength.

Reforms. Ah yes. We all talk that up but no one has anything to bring forward.

I do, and I'm sick of talk. It's always "SUPPORT/OPPOSE" on amendments that consistent of a few words being changed. So I'm going to propose a big one, hitting on multiple parts of the constitution in one massive amendment rather than some small piece of text getting changed, and we'll see if anyone's game. I'm hoping that even if people oppose a small part of it, they see the balance and go with it anyway. I will propose the Modding Council of War returns in that because it has a million times more potential than this CCTV committee thing that got created: particularly when TW modding will be as important as it ever was going into Rome II (assumingly with Steamworks). CdeC should handle running/moderating the Symposium as well and get some decent threads going there. A gaming staff medal should be outlined in the constitution in case they want one. Wait to patronize should be culled. Changing the curial service award as I mentioned previously so anyone in the Curia can get it. Changes to Forum Magnum so there's actually a point to it. Full transparency of CdeC. etc etc. Anyone wants to help me with this BIG ONE then by all means, holla me by PM and we shall goto WAR!

IF YOU SMEEEELLLLL WHAT THE Q IS COOKING!!

As the silence before the storm suggests, Q is preparing something big. In the meantime, why don't we do some appetizers?

We have long debated about making Curia relevant to the site. As I remember right, this topic was hot even in my early days in the Curia. But we mostly don't get to go anywhere. Doing a realty check, I found that in the last relevant such discussion, we seemed to been asking for roles, powers, and responsibilities. But then, it's not going to happen right away. Perhaps, we are not yet ready for them yet. At any rate, we have to first prove ourselves capable for it.

So this time, I want us to discuss something else. What do we have to offer to the site? Let's put that on the table, and then the admins can decide if it can be taken and applied. As of now, Curia only contributes as a screening process for the moderation, and as elected magistrates. So, let's start discussing and offering.

[Genius of the Restoration]

I think you've missed what is, IMO, the best thing the Curia does on TWC; rewarding some of its more valued members.

I don't have anything I want to offer at the moment but I'm happy to discuss things.
I'm just a bit skeptical that reforms are needed when citizens can do things using their own initiative already - as long as it doesn't conflict with staff. I don't see why the Curia should start from a position of asking for roles, powers and responsibilities without first determining what they should be given for. Powers over what? Additional roles for what purpose? I'm happy to discuss things, but any proposed reforms should follow the proposed function being served and not the other way around

[Navajo Joe]

GOTR,

I agree with all you have stated, although I do have one reservation, I can think of two occasions recently where an initiative from the Curia or a Curia sponsored project as been 'stamped' on by Content, on the basis that this area is their remit. On this basis I believe if it is considered that Curia needs further roles defined, they do need to be specified, agreed by all bodies that are impacted. I believe there is a lot of knowledge, skill and experience within the citizenry, that is not being fully exploited, but we need to discuss, how these skills and talents can be used.

[Mega Tortas de Bodemloze]

Yes tickets for the ferris wheel.* I'll have my usual car please...

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Kay what are we going to fix that is broken? Inclusion and interest of all members.... kay...

* Citizenship made applications visible to the community, like the tribunal area. No, says the curia.

* Add more CdeC seats and or have interns. No says the Curia.

* Open CdeC membership to all members. The thought of perhaps having an informed non citizen modder showing them up is too much. No says the curia.

* Custom user titles for all Members. Well an apathetic response from the base membership sunk this the last time out so that's on them....

Well the above are just a few things that I supported to try and get folks more involved. So how to stir the pot, without simultaneously tipping over the apple cart? Daring to do too much will trigger a unanimous "hell no!"response. from the voters. Since this Curial body cannot even compromise on meaningless things such as this...[Amendment] Reduce the three months before being able to patronize to two months... meaningful change will certainly prove to be truly elusive.



* The ferris wheel goes "round and round" much like the attempts at Curial reform.

[Omnipotent-Q]

I don't know why another thread is needed on this, or why Ferris Wheel posts are helpful or useful. Basically, I've heard a bunch of ideas over time, nothing has changed in years, and I've got some new ones. I'm going to write them into a big amendment where the ideas work well together, hopefully patronize a bunch of people at once, then push it through a vote. Not willing to talk about it much because that's all people have done on reform for years and nothing happens. So instead, I'm going to set the Ferris Wheel on fire. Not going to give much indication on what that entails until things are ready, but it doesn't really involve new "powah" or anything not already in Curial purview - "new powah" is way way off the mark when it comes to what I'm thinking. There's some sort of fad for some years now that the Curia should try and do everything because it has no specific scope, when really, it should concentrate on a small mission or purpose and concentrate on doing that well, first.

ps - I know I haven't replied to a number of people who have PMed me on this. Been an extremely busy few days, will get back to you very soon fo' sho'!

[Leonidas The Lion]

GOTR,

I agree with all you have stated, although I do have one reservation, I can think of two occasions recently where an initiative from the Curia or a Curia sponsored project as been 'stamped' on by Content, on the basis that this area is their remit. On this basis I believe if it is considered that Curia needs further roles defined, they do need to be specified, agreed by all bodies that are impacted. I believe there is a lot of knowledge, skill and experience within the citizenry, that is not being fully exploited, but we need to discuss, how these skills and talents can be used.

Chloe inbound in 3....2.....1....

[Hesus de bodemloze]

Chloe inbound in 3....2.....1....

Well??? We are still waiting.

[m_1512]

Well??? We are still waiting.

Incoming as soon as it takes to travel from Elitist Chat thread to here...

[Legio]

Sorry, I'm doing volunteer work now so I'm not available during the day. I posted within six hours, though! That's good!! ;P

I'm infernally curious to see what the Q is cookin'.

[m_1512]

I think you've missed what is, IMO, the best thing the Curia does on TWC; rewarding some of its more valued members.

I don't have anything I want to offer at the moment but I'm happy to discuss things.
I'm just a bit skeptical that reforms are needed when citizens can do things using their own initiative already - as long as it doesn't conflict with staff. I don't see why the Curia should start from a position of asking for roles, powers and responsibilities without first determining what they should be given for. Powers over what? Additional roles for what purpose? I'm happy to discuss things, but any proposed reforms should follow the proposed function being served and not the other way around

I had not expected ideas and offerings when I posted this. Discussion might lead to some good ideas. As for the task the Curia does, yes it rewards the members, but there are many things the Curia could also do. And we are speaking of similar lines, asking power and responsibility without deciding the reason. But we have done some things, haven't we? Elected mods, remember?

Kay what are we going to fix that is broken? Inclusion and interest of all members.... kay...

* Citizenship made applications visible to the community, like the tribunal area. No, says the curia.

* Add more CdeC seats and or have interns. No says the Curia.

* Open CdeC membership to all members. The thought of perhaps having an informed non citizen modder showing them up is too much. No says the curia.

* Custom user titles for all Members. Well an apathetic response from the base membership sunk this the last time out so that's on them....

Well the above are just a few things that I supported to try and get folks more involved. So how to stir the pot, without simultaneously tipping over the apple cart? Daring to do too much will trigger a unanimous "hell no!"response. from the voters. Since this Curial body cannot even compromise on meaningless things such as this...[Amendment] Reduce the three months before being able to patronize to two months... meaningful change will certainly prove to be truly elusive.

Ah... Mega, great post of irony mate. However, one question I have from your example is why the hell are these meaningless things asked then? I am not interrogating mate, just curious about your take about this.

I don't know why another thread is needed on this, or why Ferris Wheel posts are helpful or useful. Basically, I've heard a bunch of ideas over time, nothing has changed in years, and I've got some new ones. I'm going to write them into a big amendment where the ideas work well together, hopefully patronize a bunch of people at once, then push it through a vote. Not willing to talk about it much because that's all people have done on reform for years and nothing happens. So instead, I'm going to set the Ferris Wheel on fire. Not going to give much indication on what that entails until things are ready, but it doesn't really involve new "powah" or anything not already in Curial purview - "new powah" is way way off the mark when it comes to what I'm thinking. There's some sort of fad for some years now that the Curia should try and do everything because it has no specific scope, when really, it should concentrate on a small mission or purpose and concentrate on doing that well, first.

ps - I know I haven't replied to a number of people who have PMed me on this. Been an extremely busy few days, will get back to you very soon fo' sho'!

This thread? Just to keep the idea of your coming proposal fresh. And in the hope that we might have somethings understood and in mind of what we have been doing wrong. And since the 007 like suspense, we might as well talk until the big 'un comes.

[Pontifex Maximus]

Yes tickets for the ferris wheel.* I'll have my usual car please...

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Kay what are we going to fix that is broken? Inclusion and interest of all members.... kay...

* Citizenship made applications visible to the community, like the tribunal area. No, says the curia.

* Add more CdeC seats and or have interns. No says the Curia.

* Open CdeC membership to all members. The thought of perhaps having an informed non citizen modder showing them up is too much. No says the curia.

* Custom user titles for all Members. Well an apathetic response from the base membership sunk this the last time out so that's on them....

Well the above are just a few things that I supported to try and get folks more involved. So how to stir the pot, without simultaneously tipping over the apple cart? Daring to do too much will trigger a unanimous "hell no!"response. from the voters. Since this Curial body cannot even compromise on meaningless things such as this...[Amendment] Reduce the three months before being able to patronize to two months... meaningful change will certainly prove to be truly elusive.



* The ferris wheel goes "round and round" much like the attempts at Curial reform.

I fail to see how removing what makes citizenship unique and desirable will do anything to improve the curia.

Reform is such a loaded word. It infers something is corrupt, failing to live up to standards, or broken. The curia really doesn't make any important decisions and attempts to make itself relevant through things like the curial action team. These attempts always fail because these committees form and then realize all power is concentrated in staff branches leaving them nothing to do but sit on their titles and do nothing. Including regular members in this fruitless endeavor serves only to widen the voter base for unimportant things and allow people who actively hate the curia (see the curial commentary thread) to participate. And this will supposedly improve the curia?

Citizenship, the curia, exists and serves really one important function; to offer an incentive for good behavior and contributions. Dilute that incentive by simply handing it out to regular members and the curia loses its one shred of remaining relevancy to the site. Don't treat the curia and citizenship as something it is not.

[Bethencourt]

I think we need content more than reforms. This means will to make different things to what it is used here.

[Genius of the Restoration]

I had not expected ideas and offerings when I posted this. Discussion might lead to some good ideas. As for the task the Curia does, yes it rewards the members, but there are many things the Curia could also do. And we are speaking of similar lines, asking power and responsibility without deciding the reason. But we have done some things, haven't we? Elected mods, remember?

Are we speaking of similar lines? I don't want more power and responsibility, not with the current set up of citizens.

[Hesus de bodemloze]

Elected mods?

[m_1512]

Are we speaking of similar lines? I don't want more power and responsibility, not with the current set up of citizens.

Yes we were. At any rate, you and I both know that Curia asking any power and responsibility is not going to help anything. And that would also completely make sense. It would be like a child asking for a police uniform and firearm.

Elected mods?

This was an example I gave. It happened whilst you were away. There was a proposal to bring back the elected site mod system. Obviously it was shot down.

What we need right now is a purpose, something by which we can benefit the community. As the community is vast and varied in TWC, there is a lot of scope in this area.

[Hesus de bodemloze]

I know it was shot down. I couldn't place it for a minute.