R+L=A? spoiler alert

[Highlander of Scotland]

so I hate the R+L=J theory, john is clearly a stark and was always meant to be also Ned confirms he is his son multiple times and does not want that girl mentioned.

Yet my theory is that Aeogn is Lyanna and Rhaegar's son. Robert states that Lyanna was "raped multiple times" implying they had sex regularily. And the promise I think is actually that he let her son be taken away to safety. Aegon is clearly rhaegars son and that lord of griffens roost knows it. Yet maybe the bastard was the baby that was taken into exile. It could be Varys plot to to tie the north and south together. He wanted Ned stark to join the black watch only to help him escape on the journey and lead the north to battle. The war that would follow would not be done as quickly as rob starks was.

Meanwhile Aegon would be revealed as Daernaeys and Viserys came west with Dokthrai who were joined with the golden comapny. Once the south was conquered eddard would support Aegon who was his nephew. Allowing the realm to be rebuilt.

Also Aegon shows the characteristics of both houses, tagareyan looks and stark personality, he has a sense of honor.

This is quite brief I know, but I could go on for ever and it takes to long. So this is just a basis. Tell me what you think!

[Korpskog]

Theories against:

Eddard would never choose to support a targaryen over Stannis/Renly especially since the last Targaryen king burned his father to death and made his brother strangle himself in the atempt to save him.

Varys was plotting to remove King Aerys from the throne, why would he do that to restore the grandson of Aerys? No Aegon is clearly a Blackfyre, same as Varys!

[Highlander of Scotland]

Theories against:

Eddard would never choose to support a targaryen over Stannis/Renly especially since the last Targaryen king burned his father to death and made his brother strangle himself in the atempt to save him.

Varys was plotting to remove King Aerys from the throne, why would he do that to restore the grandson of Aerys? No Aegon is clearly a Blackfyre, same as Varys!

he does what he does for the kingdom, he holds no loyalties to a family, also eddard is honorable and would support his nephew, you must also remember his tolerant stance on the tagareyans.

[FNF]

Funny how you dispute Jon being Lyanna's son yet you think Aegon is on a much, much flimsier basis.

And one of the prophecies states the existence of a red dragon and a black dragon which is obviously a reference to Aegon being a Blackfyre as opposed to Dany being a Targ.

[Highlander of Scotland]

Funny how you dispute Jon being Lyanna's son yet you think Aegon is on a much, much flimsier basis.

And one of the prophecies states the existence of a red dragon and a black dragon which is obviously a reference to Aegon being a Blackfyre as opposed to Dany being a Targ.

equally isnt one of the dragons white and another green. OH MA GOD. The green is for the batherons and the white for the starks.

back on track, the whole point of game of thrones i feel should be that you cant trust anything or anyone, i hope that azzhor azzhi will be a false prophecy as it is a little bit sad and ruins game of thrones

[The Forgotten]

We can all agree that Lyanna was pregnant correct? Well this will lead to two theories, one being R+L=J and the propsed one. Jon is most often believed to be the baby due to a vast amount of evidence, although I have seen a theory about varys being a mermaid too that contained a LOT of evidence. So there is a possibility that it could be wrong. But if you look at the facts you can see what is more likely.

First off, when Ned arrived at the Tower of Joy why were three Kingsguard there and why was Lyanna dying? If your theory is true the Aegon must have been born some time before for him to be spirited away to safety. If Lyanna was dying from childbirth then she should have died sometime before Bed arrived, or one of the Kingsguard should have left to recieve help. Also why did Aegon not get a Kingsguard? A prince of royal blood gets to fend for himself with who knows and Lyanna, a dying mistress, gets three? A little unlikely but I suppose it is plausible.

Korps has already brought up a good point about Varys and Illyrio. Why would they help Aegon? Neither are of Westerosi descent and both areriaking a lot on a few orphans, who technically are not even the true Heirs (That would belong to the Baratheons through right of conquest). If Aegon was a Blackfyre and was the son of Illyrio on the otherhand it would make much more sense. I also don't see what he would gain by saying he was Aegon VI instead of Aegon VII or whatever Lyanna decided to name him. Fro what I read he fully believes that he is the son of Elia and for Illyrio to come about and tell him diferently would be quite a shock.

My final point is that we didn't even figured out about Aegon until the 5th book. If he was who the theory claims he is then why didn't we learn of him sooner? After all the baby of L and R is most likely Azor Ahai (R being fire and L being ice). The baby should have been the best plot twist in the series (Dany being the mos obvious choice) too had it not been for a few smart buggers who pieced together the riddle. Meanwhile we were introduced to Jon and Daenerys in the first 100 pages of the first book.

[Highlander of Scotland]

We can all agree that Lyanna was pregnant correct? Well this will lead to two theories, one being R+L=J and the propsed one. Jon is most often believed to be the baby due to a vast amount of evidence, although I have seen a theory about varys being a mermaid too that contained a LOT of evidence. So there is a possibility that it could be wrong. But if you look at the facts you can see what is more likely.

First off, when Ned arrived at the Tower of Joy why were three Kingsguard there and why was Lyanna dying? If your theory is true the Aegon must have been born some time before for him to be spirited away to safety. If Lyanna was dying from childbirth then she should have died sometime before Bed arrived, or one of the Kingsguard should have left to recieve help. Also why did Aegon not get a Kingsguard? A prince of royal blood gets to fend for himself with who knows and Lyanna, a dying mistress, gets three? A little unlikely but I suppose it is plausible.

Korps has already brought up a good point about Varys and Illyrio. Why would they help Aegon? Neither are of Westerosi descent and both areriaking a lot on a few orphans, who technically are not even the true Heirs (That would belong to the Baratheons through right of conquest). If Aegon was a Blackfyre and was the son of Illyrio on the otherhand it would make much more sense. I also don't see what he would gain by saying he was Aegon VI instead of Aegon VII or whatever Lyanna decided to name him. Fro what I read he fully believes that he is the son of Elia and for Illyrio to come about and tell him diferently would be quite a shock.

My final point is that we didn't even figured out about Aegon until the 5th book. If he was who the theory claims he is then why didn't we learn of him sooner? After all the baby of L and R is most likely Azor Ahai (R being fire and L being ice). The baby should have been the best plot twist in the series (Dany being the mos obvious choice) too had it not been for a few smart buggers who pieced together the riddle. Meanwhile we were introduced to Jon and Daenerys in the first 100 pages of the first book.

i hope the prophecy is a dead one. Also nead speeks with conviction to catelyn that jon is his son. And as i said this is specualtion, i cba to read deeply for proof. but believe it is just as likely as R+L=J seeing as there is little proof that john is the son of lyanna, also all targareyans take their coloring

[Deska140]

Maybe I forgot something again but where is it stated that Varys was plotting to remove Aerys?
When Tywin was at the gates of KL, Varys said NOT to open the gates. Pycelle was the one who said to open the gates.

[Korpskog]

It is stated by somebody, I don't remember who (embaresing) that Aerys madness took start when Varys arived at court to councel him. For example he is the one who told Aerys that Rhaegar was plotting to take him down (the tournament of harrenhall).

Also Young Griff seems a little boyish to have been born before or during the rebellion does he not?

[Iforgot]

I don't have copies of all the books, how old is he versus Jon and the others, no matter who their parents are they ought to be about the same age, with Aegon perhaps a bit older than Jon.

[Korpskog]

Aegon should be one or two years older then Jon/Robb/Theon etc.

[The Forgotten]

Actually Theon was a few years older than Robb. I think the Wiki puts it at three years. So it would go Theon, Aegon, Robb, Jon, And finally Dany.

[Deska140]

The thing you mentioned was stated by Barristan I think. Varys is too much complicated person for us to make such assumptions yet.
He clearly wants to overthrow the usurper's line. But for which dragon? I wouldn't be so sure of any option for now.

[Fürst Frederic]

Very interesting theory! I don't understand why everybody is so skeptical; If Eddard Stark came to the Tower of Joy and found Lyanna's son looking so obviously like a Tagaryen (Aegon has blond hair and lilac eyes), the only way to save him from Robert's wrath would have been to send Aegon to Essos. At this point I'll continue with my own idea: Somehow Varys figured out about Aegon being Lyanna's son and he approached Eddard and offered to bring Aegon to an old friend (Illyrio) in Essos, where he would be safe from Robert. Eddard agreed to this and that's how Aegon came to Pentos!

[The Forgotten]

The reason is that the evidence is very flimsy and almost non existent. Then it has to go up against R+L=J, which has essays full of evidence that is both cited and well written. It also must prove who Jon's parents really are as the most likely choice is gone.

Here is a very well written essay from Tower of the Hand which got me believing in the theory, even though I was skeptical and even a little butthurt at first.
http://towerofthehand.com/essays/chr...s_parents.html

i hope the prophecy is a dead one. Also nead speeks with conviction to catelyn that jon is his son. And as i said this is specualtion, i cba to read deeply for proof. but believe it is just as likely as R+L=J seeing as there is little proof that john is the son of lyanna, also all targareyans take their coloring

Ned can lie. He is only human, and show me a person in the world who has not lied about something and I will eat my shoe. His honor is not rock solid either as he did father a bastard according to your story. But if you are thinking of this conversation then there is more to meets the eye.

"Never ask me about Jon," he said, cold as ice. "He is my blood, and that is all you need to know. And now I will learn where you heard that name, my lady." She had pledged to obey; she told him; and from that day on, the whispering had stopped, and Ashara Dayne's name was never heard in Winterfell again. Pg 65

Notice how he never says that Jon is his son, but that he shares his blood. If Jon is Lyanna's son then they would in fact share blood and Eddard would not technically be lying, which his honor prohibits. In the Aegon theory is believed then the impeccable Ned not only stained his honor by fathering a baseborn son, but continues to lie about it for 14 years. If the theory of Jon is to be believe then Eddard never did dishonor himself by fathering Jon and simply implied that it was his son for 14 years.

Also prophesies always come true in books. Usually not how you expect too. Prophesies are similar to riddles. They give you all the things necessary to solve it but are made to not be figured out until after it has happened. That would be like telling someone to guess the answer to the Sphinx's Riddle and when they have guessed (right or wrong) slapping them and saying they are idiots for trying to guess it in the first place. We already know that GRRM follows up on his prophesies because many have already come true. For example almost all of Patchfaces have come true, and so too have many of the visions from the House of the Undying. Both at one time predicted The Red Wedding.

[Petroniu]

so I hate the R+L=J theory, john is clearly a stark and was always meant to be also Ned confirms he is his son multiple times and does not want that girl mentioned.

Yet my theory is that Aeogn is Lyanna and Rhaegar's son. Robert states that Lyanna was "raped multiple times" implying they had sex regularily. And the promise I think is actually that he let her son be taken away to safety. Aegon is clearly rhaegars son and that lord of griffens roost knows it. Yet maybe the bastard was the baby that was taken into exile. It could be Varys plot to to tie the north and south together. He wanted Ned stark to join the black watch only to help him escape on the journey and lead the north to battle. The war that would follow would not be done as quickly as rob starks was.

Meanwhile Aegon would be revealed as Daernaeys and Viserys came west with Dokthrai who were joined with the golden comapny. Once the south was conquered eddard would support Aegon who was his nephew. Allowing the realm to be rebuilt.

Also Aegon shows the characteristics of both houses, tagareyan looks and stark personality, he has a sense of honor.

This is quite brief I know, but I could go on for ever and it takes to long. So this is just a basis. Tell me what you think!

This is far stretched.

[SoulGamesInc]

WARNING: The opinions below are that of a Targaryen Supporter and may contain some harsh truths not for the faint of heart. Enemy's of King Jon beware!

Ned confirms he is his son multiple times and does not want that girl mentioned.

Ned has only ever once spoken about Jons Mother, that being when speaking to Robert and if the theory is true he would have a very solid reason to lie about it.

Robert states that Lyanna was "raped multiple times" implying they had sex regularily.

It deeply annoys me that some people believe the lies Robert has spoken about Prince Rhaegar, as he was a great man known for his honor and justice who would never rape Lyanna, the very idea is insulting and simply the lies of a man blinded by his own fury. Robert Baratheon is not even haft the man Rhaegar was. Robert was told what he wanted to hear, that Rhaegar was a monster when in reality he was anything but. I wont stand for such slander good sir!

Also Aegon shows the characteristics of both houses, tagareyan looks and stark personality, he has a sense of honor.

Rhaegar was an honorable man, as where a great number of Targaryen rulers over the years. Honor is not a trait of House Stark, on the contrary the Kings in The North were some of the hardest rulers in the seven kingdoms as Ned himself put it "As hard has the lands they ruled" So being raised across the sea with no ties to House Stark would not give him a Stark Personality, even IF he was a stark by some crazy turn of events.

[Highlander of Scotland]

WARNING: The opinions below are that of a Targaryen Supporter and may contain some harsh truths not for the faint of heart. Enemy's of King Jon beware!


Ned has only ever once spoken about Jons Mother, that being when speaking to Robert and if the theory is true he would have a very solid reason to lie about it.


It deeply annoys me that some people believe the lies Robert has spoken about Prince Rhaegar, as he was a great man known for his honor and justice who would never rape Lyanna, the very idea is insulting and simply the lies of a man blinded by his own fury. Robert Baratheon is not even haft the man Rhaegar was. Robert was told what he wanted to hear, that Rhaegar was a monster when in reality he was anything but. I wont stand for such slander good sir!


Rhaegar was an honorable man, as where a great number of Targaryen rulers over the years. Honor is not a trait of House Stark, on the contrary the Kings in The North were some of the hardest rulers in the seven kingdoms as Ned himself put it "As hard has the lands they ruled" So being raised across the sea with no ties to House Stark would not give him a Stark Personality, even IF he was a stark by some crazy turn of events.

wow i mearly said that they had sex. i never said it was rape. Equally the targaryen's are my lest favourite house, the dragons and inbreeding are annoying but especially the dragons, and daernaeys dont get me started. Equally what proof

[SoulGamesInc]

wow i mearly said that they had sex. i never said it was rape.

Robert states that Lyanna was "raped multiple times" implying they had sex regularily.

Robert Baratheon claimed Rhaegar raped Lyanna, as you yourself quoted only moments ago...

Equally the targaryen's are my lest favourite house, the dragons and inbreeding are annoying but especially the dragons, and daernaeys dont get me started.

As for hating the Targaryens for "inbreeding" there are accounts from each House in Westeros of "breeding" inside the family just a few examples, Tywin Lannisters wife Joanna was his cousin. Robert Arryns second wife was Rowena Arryn, yet another cousin. Jamie and Cersei are widely known for performing the act of incest, and it stands to reason there are a number of low-born that have performed the act that have merely gone unnoticed or ignored due to them being unimportant. During the rule of House Targaryen the act of incest was not so heavily looked down upon with many nobles "keeping the bloodlines pure" I agree about Danny, i don't hold high hopes for her future.

You find the dragons "annoying"? that's a first... Do you also find the Others annoying? Or is it purely that you don't want a House you dislike having such power?

[Highlander of Scotland]

Robert Baratheon claimed Rhaegar raped Lyanna, as you yourself quoted only moments ago...



As for hating the Targaryens for "inbreeding" there are accounts from each House in Westeros of "breeding" inside the family just a few examples, Tywin Lannisters wife Joanna was his cousin. Robert Arryns second wife was Rowena Arryn, yet another cousin. Jamie and Cersei are widely known for performing the act of incest, and it stands to reason there are a number of low-born that have performed the act that have merely gone unnoticed or ignored due to them being unimportant. During the rule of House Targaryen the act of incest was not so heavily looked down upon with many nobles "keeping the bloodlines pure" I agree about Danny, i don't hold high hopes for her future.

You find the dragons "annoying"? that's a first... Do you also find the Others annoying? Or is it purely that you don't want a House you dislike having such power?

the others are great enemies. Personally i find the dragons OP. bit like giving the germans a stack of berzerkers with everyone else only being allowed peasants, maxed out bezerkers that is who instantly refill their health after a batlle. They ruin the aspect of politics because the targaryens can say we dont like you so lets just fry you. Jaime is alright because he repented and Cersei is so ******, meanwhile the others are dead