Exterminating the populace

[rrgg]

It sort of seems like this option should instantly bring your culture up to 50% among the survivors, or at least greatly speed up the rate of conversion.

[Loki_999]

I don't think so, its % based conversion, so population size doesn't matter i think.

Usually exterminating the population (or even sacking the city) is a bad idea (TM). Its better to take the city and first thing build your culture buildings so you can start pumping units from your new border territories, or if you are happy transferring units from your existing unit production regions, then get the economic and pop increase buildings so it will provide more money.

Exterminating is bad for your long term economy.

However, there may be reasons for doing so.

1) Trying to make a high dread general and the region you are taking is not relevant for your economy/unit production.

2) Planning on gifting it to an ally or enemy (then why not be evil)? For example, as Gondor, take E. Osgiliath, exterminate population, then gift it to the OotMM.

3) Playing a scorched earth game. This can be fun, especially if playing as an evil faction. Take regions, exterminate population, set taxes to very high, move your units out, and let it rebel.

[CatoTheYounger]

With Mordor i exterminate settlements that i know i wont hold while im on my forward march or don't want to bother developing. As long as the enemy can't use it as a source of armies im happy. Burn all the buildings and exterminate. Takes a long time before they can recruit anything but the low tier units. And the economy is damaged.

[Ngugi]

It sort of seems like this option should instantly bring your culture up to 50% among the survivors, or at least greatly speed up the rate of conversion.

To enter the city and massacre the popolus do not mean to take them out one by one and carefully ask what aligmnent they belong to á la a Nazi extermination organization but to let the soldiers into town to cut down any men, women and children that comes in their way á la a Mongol assult
And it's not a matter of a 'forced conversion operation' but about wacking heads and make the streets run red.

To butcher is historically a bad way of conversion, weither cultural or religious, as it causes resentment and hate, at best outright uprisinig is prevented (which may be enough victory for a conqueror in itself, mind you); it's trough social and economical incitaments real conversion are achived.

[rrgg]

To enter the city and massacre the popolus do not mean to take them out one by one and carefully ask what aligmnent they belong to á la a Nazi extermination organization but to let the soldiers into town to cut down any men, women and children that comes in their way á la a Mongol assult
And it's not a matter of a 'forced conversion operation' but about wacking heads and make the streets run red.

To butcher is historically a bad way of conversion, weither cultural or religious, as it causes resentment and hate, at best outright uprisinig is prevented (which may be enough victory for a conqueror in itself, mind you); it's trough social and economical incitaments real conversion are achived.

In the context of elves. orcs and dwarves I don't think that we're talking about conversion in the traditional sense of the word. . .

[Aldor]

On topic I do think that you get a small culture bonus for sack and a slightly bigger one for exterminate.

Something in the range of 2-4%, though I might be wrong.

[Macilrille]

Roman-Style!

-Perform "Devotio"
-Take the city
-Slaughter all inhabitants, rape the women first; a city must be penetrated to know that it lies prostrate in front of its conqueror
-Pull those hiding out of their holes, enslave those who can work, slaughyter the rest, they are useless, rape the women.
-Loot the city of all valuables. Demolishing is optional for your pleasure.
-Burn the empty shell.

Some sources state that the place could be symbolically strewn with salt and cursed, but the original sources disagree on this; they all agree that it did not happen at Carthage (not that it mattered to the Carthaginians after being on the recieving end of the list above).


And you think Mordor is bad...

I usually create one or two High-dread Generals, whose primary task is combat and who will loot cities, not usually slaughter after they have achieved high dread as it gives less money- except if I have enough money and is fighting Orks. And some with high Chivalry for Governing; these will just occupy when they take a city (so they do not take Ork cities usually).

Its other uses has been described above. For roleplaying reasons I try to always kill Orks, cities or prisoners both. Fortunately Ransoming adds neither Dread nor Chivalry and as the AI will rarely pay, that gives a legal way of killing evil monsters.

[Loki_999]

-Slaughter all inhabitants, rape the women first;

Very important you get the order right on this.

[Macilrille]

Very important you get the order right on this.

I do not actually know whether the Romans cared much, they were the most ruthless race of antiquity. Their exterminations worked very well. But of course they romanised the survivors and that gave mostly benefits. Long story...

[Loki_999]

... and that gave mostly benefits. Long story...

Yes, but apart from the sanitation, medicine, and roads, what have the Romans ever done for us?!

[Swerg]

Yes, but apart from the sanitation, medicine, and roads, what have the Romans ever done for us?!

Don't forget the wine.



On topic, I do think the OP has something of a point. If you exterminate the population, it seems like most of those who entered the region afterwards would be 'migrants' from your faction. After all, if you, as Gondor, exterminate East Osgiliath, it's not like the Orcs are going to be let back into the city afterward. From a realism perspective, exterminating should theoretically increase your culture percentage. Particularly since it's generally pretty easy to spot the difference between "cultures" in Middle Earth. The only two that would possibly give difficulty are the Dunedain and Northmen, and the various Elven factions. But they're all on the same side. When it comes to good and evil factions, you'd have to be blind not to spot the difference between an Orc and, say, a hobbit

Gameplay wise, though, I don't know if it's possible to implement something that would reflect that, though. No doubt the wise minds behind TATW are more familiar with the mechanics of the culture system than I.

[Aldor]

~ off topic ~

Very important you get the order right on this.

The main reason behind raping in Afrika of conquered villages is not sexual.

If you can rape women before their husbands/children unpunished, you prove yourself to be dominant over them.

Afterwards you can terrorize the non-female subject even more ofcourse.

Anyway that's the rationale for the sequence given my limited knowledge on Afrikan tribal wars. You humiliate living husbands/family of the females who will then flee and spread the news to other tribes. Just in case they would consider offering resistance...

[DrBeast]

At least they were kind enough to let Archimedes finish whatever he was writing before killing him

[Macilrille]

We do not actually know, but most likely no he was killed on the spot for refusing to come before he had finished what he was working on.

We are derailing though.

Imagine Rome vs Mordor...

[knight of meh]

We are derailing though.

do we ever do anything else

as for the OP just no... killing lots of people doesn't convert them or religious tension would be a thing of the past

[riuk881]

The Senate and People of the Republic of Rome would have it know that all wars were either started by the enemy or were pre-emptive attacks on Romes enemies. What was done was for the good of the Republic and her citizens.
(I felt given my pic I would make a good representative )

[Macilrille]

I cannot re-rep you yet, but I would.

Instead here is the correct quote and a laugh for all.

[Loki_999]

Culture != Race

The Dark Lord had many human servants.

[Swerg]

Culture != Race

The Dark Lord had many human servants.

And it seems like the vast majority of his human servants were clearly ethnically defined. Sure, he had spies and quislings amoung the western men, but I don't recall any mention in the books/movies of large numbers of them allied to him in the LOTR period, save for Dunland, but even they seem like they would be fairly easy to differentiate from the other human groups.

[riuk881]

Anywho the OP does have a point. Example: If the elves conquer a northmen dominate region and exterminate the populace the percentage of elvish culture may not go up, but Northmen should go down as there are less men of the north in that region.
Does that make sense? idk i'm finding it hard to convey my thoughts adequately...