Allies betrayal problem

[Eugene of Savoy]

Why are my allies always betraying me? I do nothing to them (No going through their land or spying them) and they always stab me in the back. It's really bloody annoying playing with no allies, how can I get trustworthy ones? Usually I make alliances very early in the game, and they betray me maybe 20 turns later.

[eXistenZ]

because the AI diplomacy is shite....Even royal marriages arent sufficient

You can try retrofit mod, it makes the AI a bit more passive

[Kaiser Nonsense]

because the AI diplomacy is shite....Even royal marriages arent sufficient

You can try retrofit mod, it makes the AI a bit more passive

The AI diplomacy isn't shite, I've seen a guide explaining everything, you absolutely CANNOT make trade agreements with lots of factions, you can't invite lots of factions to be your bloody allies as well, and if you become a economical power, with trade between the whole world, the AI will try to take you down, and blockade your ports.

[eXistenZ]

The AI diplomacy isn't shite, I've seen a guide explaining everything, you absolutely CANNOT make trade agreements with lots of factions, you can't invite lots of factions to be your bloody allies as well, and if you become a economical power, with trade between the whole world, the AI will try to take you down, and blockade your ports.

Nope, its shite. If suddenly the 4 surrounding factions declare war before turn 45, one of which had a royal marriage with and another one regulary allied, its shite

[Kaiser Nonsense]

In MIITW allies exist with one purpose only: to betray you!

Without warning, sometimes for no reason (you have a good overall reputation, good relations with the attacker, didn't cross their territory, didn't spy/assassinate/vote the wrong cardinal for Pope, don't have any relations with their arch enemy etc.), other times following a pervert logic.

I know it sucks, but that's the game and the only thing you can do is to keep in mind that everyone can attack you and be prepared.

Also, you gotta be aware of the fact that there are several "trap provinces" on the map and if you take one of those, expect trouble with the factions that also desire it, regardless of the diplomatic treaties.
The pervert part, often the God damn Council of Nobles gives you missions to take those particular provinces!
I thought those guys are on my side, but no! They sure aren't.

Just one example of "trap provinces", Dijon, who is wanted by HRE, France, Milan and whoever will get to border that province later in the game (I saw Danemark owning it, Spain, Portugal, hell, even Venice!).

Remember, be prepared!

Nope, its shite. If suddenly the 4 surrounding factions declare war before turn 45, one of which had a royal marriage with and another one regulary allied, its shite

Why you lot want to disagree and argue with me? Have you read this (link, click) guide? No, then well, do it and stop arguing with me when I'm right.

[Vlad Dracul]

Why you lot want to disagree and argue with me? Have you read this (link, click) guide? No, then well, do it and stop arguing with me when I'm right.

Actually I did read Claudius guide, but some of the things he states there are false and revealed as such by various users in the same topic.
Diplomacy definitely should of been better in this game as it's very important. Maybe I'll open a topic with my opinion about that subject and, without expecting you to agree with me 100%, you'll see I have a valid point.

And I'm not tryin' to argue with you, but rather tell the man to be prepared and expect the worst.
It's always better to be prepared.

[Dr. Conquest]

As has been noted many times before on these forums, it's Medieval II: Total WAR, not Medieval II: Total ALLIANCES. Yes, it's annoying that the diplomacy is broken, but the way around that is to build armies and crush all other factions!

[eugenioso]

a question to OP: are you playing on VH/VH? if so, the diplomatic rating with other factions begins to lower by itself, regardless of what you do. in Medium/Medium the AI tends to follow long alliances, but they are incredibly sensitive to any perceived threat.

[Vlad Dracul]

Why are my allies always betraying me? I do nothing to them (No going through their land or spying them) and they always stab me in the back. It's really bloody annoying playing with no allies, how can I get trustworthy ones? Usually I make alliances very early in the game, and they betray me maybe 20 turns later.

In MIITW allies exist with one purpose only: to betray you!

Without warning, sometimes for no reason (you have a good overall reputation, good relations with the attacker, didn't cross their territory, didn't spy/assassinate/vote the wrong cardinal for Pope, don't have any relations with their arch enemy etc.), other times following a pervert logic.

I know it sucks, but that's the game and the only thing you can do is to keep in mind that everyone can attack you and be prepared.

Also, you gotta be aware of the fact that there are several "trap provinces" on the map and if you take one of those, expect trouble with the factions that also desire it, regardless of the diplomatic treaties.
The pervert part, often the God damn Council of Nobles gives you missions to take those particular provinces!
I thought those guys are on my side, but no! They sure aren't.

Just one example of "trap provinces", Dijon, who is wanted by HRE, France, Milan and whoever will get to border that province later in the game (I saw Danemark owning it, Spain, Portugal, hell, even Venice!).

Remember, be prepared!

[Highlander of Scotland]

it is not broken. it is just hard, only have one or two allies and gift them money

[eXistenZ]

^^what he said

If you bothered to read past the first page, you would have seen that i posted in there too.

Also, much of the advice comes down to "dont expand". which conflicts quite a lot with your victory demands....

[Kaiser Nonsense]

^^what he said

If you bothered to read past the first page, you would have seen that i posted in there too.

Also, much of the advice comes down to "dont expand". which conflicts quite a lot with your victory demands....

eXistenz, I tested what he said, if you don't have much alliances, don't have much trade agreements, vassals won't attack you. They might break the bloody alliance directly or influenced by someone declaring war to you, but they betray veeeeeeeeery rarely.

[Fluffy_Bunny]

As Spain I had an Alliance with Portugal for 50-60 turns even though I had their capitol surrounded on land and divided their countries... The main thing I did was give them military access. This let them go fight the french with troops from their capitol without having to boat them around and I think that kept them happy. That was on Hard so maybe it wouldnt have worked on VH.

[inbetween]

Typically any faction you border will have ambitions to expand into your territory. Allies included.
Also dont ally with too many factions as certain you cannot have conflicts of interests. You cannot go to war with any faction your ally is allied to if that makes any sense.
It will prompt them to choose only one alliance to maintain since you cannot have two allies at war with each other, and i find they never choose the human faction.

[poisoned goat]

Diplomacy has been terrible all along. You can have immaculate reputation, perfect relations with a distant faction (no shared borders), marriage alliance and all that jazz, but that faction will just sail halfway across the world and blockade your port. Even if there's 20 grande carracks sitting inside it.

I'm pretty sure everyone has experienced this before...

[Darrowmere]

Got to say it put my mind at ease knowing it's because i get trade agreements with everyone that random factions go to war with me just to blockade a port. I never trust any other faction be it Ally, protectorate or neutral they will attack a neighbouring provice if it is lightly garrisoned so i always make a point of having large garrisons to stop them even starting a war.

[Geoffrey of Villehardouin]

Got to say it put my mind at ease knowing it's because i get trade agreements with everyone that random factions go to war with me just to blockade a port.

That's diplomatically put.

All of the above contain some truth. I find allies almost worthless anyway, they never do anything for you other than provide the occasional false sense of security. I once went out of my way to help an ally who was under siege. After we won the battle together I withdrew my army from his territory. But because my army was from different nearby settlements and forts I split them up and withdrew them each to their original location. Be it it was not vanilla but Stainless Steel, the game engine is the same. Every time I moved one of those units my reputation dropped and my relations with that faction dropped, so that by the end of it my relations with my ally whose settlement I had just saved had become abysmal and my reputation about as low as it can get.

I do not think that having alliances is against making war, even total war. Sure it is total war not total diplomacy. But when you have silly things like princesses and trade agreements, why can't the allies agree to go on a total war on your side? One would probably not start a war without some allies. So, although there is some logic in some of the diplomacy once you read the guide and understand what you are supposed to do and why some of it makes sense, other times the logic really isn't there. Personally I would not attack an ally who is on Crusade in real life or in a game, because I like to think as a human being I ought to have some principles - perhaps it's rare in Australia or somewhere but some people do try to have some basic principles. I have quit a couple of campaigns, in fact stopped playing vanilla, when allies attacked me at home when I was on Crusade e.g. to free Jerusalem. I would more than just have expected them, being allies in a time of a Crusade for God's sake, to get their bottoms over to Jerusalem.

It would make more sense if those who are not allies with you attacked you a little bit more instead, I would see no problem with that. Give them bigger armies, make them hard to beat, I would be very happy with it.

The best thing about diplomacy is that it can be modded.

[poisoned goat]

That's diplomatically put.

All of the above contain some truth. I find allies almost worthless anyway, they never do anything for you other than provide the occasional false sense of security. I once went out of my way to help an ally who was under siege. After we won the battle together I withdrew my army from his territory. But because my army was from different nearby settlements and forts I split them up and withdrew them each to their original location. Be it it was not vanilla but Stainless Steel, the game engine is the same. Every time I moved one of those units my reputation dropped and my relations with that faction dropped, so that by the end of it my relations with my ally whose settlement I had just saved had become abysmal and my reputation about as low as it can get.

I do not think that having alliances is against making war, even total war. Sure it is total war not total diplomacy. But when you have silly things like princesses and trade agreements, why can't the allies agree to go on a total war on your side? One would probably not start a war without some allies. So, although there is some logic in some of the diplomacy once you read the guide and understand what you are supposed to do and why some of it makes sense, other times the logic really isn't there. Personally I would not attack an ally who is on Crusade in real life or in a game, because I like to think as a human being I ought to have some principles - perhaps it's rare in Australia or somewhere but some people do try to have some basic principles. I have quit a couple of campaigns, in fact stopped playing vanilla, when allies attacked me at home when I was on Crusade e.g. to free Jerusalem. I would more than just have expected them, being allies in a time of a Crusade for God's sake, to get their bottoms over to Jerusalem.

It would make more sense if those who are not allies with you attacked you a little bit more instead, I would see no problem with that. Give them bigger armies, make them hard to beat, I would be very happy with it.

The best thing about diplomacy is that it can be modded.

You need military access in order to walk your armies around allied territories. I don't think I've ever bothered to get military access, because it'll get flat-out rejected or you have to pay that faction 1 billion florins, followed by a port blockade the next turn -_-

[Dr. Conquest]

I have never seen it posted on these forums, but there is actually an error in the settlement occupation code in descr_factionstanding.txt. The effect is that your reputation is better off if you sack a settlement rather than occupy it peacefully. I tend to unpack my files and correct it, although I doubt it has much effect on my games because I do plenty of other things to upset the AI!

[Vlad Dracul]

I have never seen it posted on these forums, but there is actually an error in the settlement occupation code in descr_factionstanding.txt. The effect is that your reputation is better off if you sack a settlement rather than occupy it peacefully. I tend to unpack my files and correct it, although I doubt it has much effect on my games because I do plenty of other things to upset the AI!

Actually, I mentioned it at the end of my post from here.

I have the Gold Edition, how exactly do you unpack the files? Are those on DVD 1 or DVD 2?