The Best Place to Start with Paradox?

[Sabre120]

Hi guys, I've watched quite a few Lets Play's of Paradox Interactive grand strategy games recently and I've thoroughly enjoyed them. I want to get involved with playing them myself, but I'm aware the learning curve is considerably steep compared to many games. That's why I'm asking you veterans what you think is the easiest of the Paradox Interactive grand strategy's so I can ease myself in and work my way up.

[Kamikaze470]

Excluding CK2, which does not act like a traditional PI game due to the fact you're actually controlling a unique individual instead of the disembodied spirit of a whole nattion, it'd have to be EU3.

[hellheaven1987]

Either EU3 or Heart of Iron; you can try Victoria 2...

[Ciabhán]

Do not start with Vicky. Vicky 2 is the most intricate of all of them. EUIII is the best all rounder.

[Condestável]

Just to reinforce the opinions above, I started too with EU3 and I can say it was the best choice.

[TheBromgrev]

I went backwards, starting with HOI3, then tried Vicky2 and EU3, and I have to agree that EU3 was much simpler and easier to get the hang of than the other 2, even when you consider that I had tried out the other 2 games first. It's also pretty cheap now that EU4 is coming out soon.

That said, I like Vicky 2 the best due to how detailed it is, followed by HOI3. EU3 and CK2 just seem... dull to me compared to the other two. Too much sitting around trying not to go bankrupt. They're definitely fun games once you get the hang of them, but since I only have so much free time I'd rather spend it on Vicky2 and HOI3.

[Sabre120]

Cheers for the advice lads, I'll go with EU3!

[War lord]

Definitely EU3, it's the least complex game over all.

[ShockBlast]

EU 3 as the others said and to go further I would recommend England as your first nation to play.Don`t try to fight France, just let them conquer your continental possessions.Concentrate on becoming a naval power and getting first to the new world.You will have missions that will allow you to conquer Scotland, thus forming UK, and Ireland so you will have the British isles under your control before you set your foot on the new world.

After you become the colonial power uou can do what you want from trying to get a foothold In Continental Europe to conquering India or China or continuing on enlarging your colonial empire.

[hellheaven1987]

Oversea colony is a waste of money in long term.

[Kamikaze470]

Oversea colony is a waste of money in long term.

Not if you focus on a few colonies at a time.

Ignore Africa entirely. It's useless land and only serves as a springboard into India or the East Indies. The Carribean is a treasure trove of money, so is Central America & Southern North America and SA.

[ShockBlast]

Oversea colony is a waste of money in long term.

Well I herd that in MP going for colonies is better in the long run compared to a land power.Also if you have a lot of colonies you can get the bonus for holding 33% of a certain good and you will not lose it when you go to war because you own the CoTs.If you don`t own those CoTs your merchants might get barred from some CoTs in the event of an war.

I for one recommend SA if only for the fact that you can block the other factions if you have a good start thus it will result in fewer colonial wars compared to NA.

Not if you focus on a few colonies at a time.

Ignore Africa entirely. It's useless land and only serves as a springboard into India or the East Indies. The Carribean is a treasure trove of money, so is Central America & Southern North America and SA.

Don`t forget about Eastern Africa, that place is the biggest producer of gold, that is worth keeping plus it will give the player a nice base for invading India and the Far East.

[ShockBlast]

Double post, sorry.

[hellheaven1987]

Not if you focus on a few colonies at a time.

Ignore Africa entirely. It's useless land and only serves as a springboard into India or the East Indies. The Carribean is a treasure trove of money, so is Central America & Southern North America and SA.

The 90% reduce of tax with little manpower contribution does not justify the long investments, especially you still need to build Church and lvl 1 Wall for all of them. I would rather grab as many lands as possible from Russia instead wasting resource on colonies.

[ShockBlast]

The 90% reduce of tax with little manpower contribution does not justify the long investments, especially you still need to build Church and lvl 1 Wall for all of them. I would rather grab as many lands as possible from Russia instead wasting resource on colonies.

Even with full naval so that you get bonus form overseas provinces + that idea that gives bonus income from oversees provinces?

I play D&T by the way.

[hellheaven1987]

Even with full naval so that you get bonus form overseas provinces + that idea that gives bonus income from oversees provinces?

I play D&T by the way.

I don't know how D&T works but in vanilla (DW) oversea province only give you tariff and 10% tax, which means each colony only give about 1/2 to 1/3 income than a province. That is also assumed that you have full sea lance bonus which means to maintain that much of your oversea income must go into maintaining your navy. Worse still colony only give nearly none manpower, means in order to protect it you have to drain your manpower to do so.

Hence oversea colony is, in DW, a good addition for your income if you have spare resource to do so, or a poor man's choice if you cannot compete with Great Power force by force.

[War lord]

The 90% reduce of tax with little manpower contribution does not justify the long investments, especially you still need to build Church and lvl 1 Wall for all of them. I would rather grab as many lands as possible from Russia instead wasting resource on colonies.

Grabbing Russian land in place of Colonies is a terrible idea, you get a 30% hit to tax for wrong culture, another smaller penalty if it's wrong religion and you have low tolerance, if you want to convert the province that's another cost. And for all that you get a base tax 1 or 2 provence of no strategic value with low manpower and crappy trade goods that does nothing but raise Stab and Tech cost for your Empire, probably costing you more money in the long run than not taking anything at all.

Colonies can have much higher base taxes, are much easier to defend by sea, are instantly converted to your culture and religion, don't cost infamy and don't require vast amounts of men to take. Which is important since with the manpower changes in 5.2 total war is only possible every ten years even for land juggernauts like Austria and France, never mind the Naval powers.

Recently Paradox had a big EU4 MP session for Gaming journalists and Developers. The guy who won managed it because while everyone else was squabbling all over the Old World he fortified the border with France, formed Spain and took all the of Americas.

[hellheaven1987]

you get a 30% hit to tax for wrong culture,

Still much better than 90% permanent tax reduction; besides you have a chance to convert its culture.

another smaller penalty if it's wrong religion and you have low tolerance, if you want to convert the province that's another cost.

Still much cheaper than throw 200 gold on one single colony.

And for all that you get a base tax 1 or 2 provence of no strategic value with low manpower and crappy trade goods that does nothing but raise Stab and Tech cost for your Empire, probably costing you more money in the long run than not taking anything at all.

Hardly; you want Russia because:

1. It would not count as oversea colony if they are link to your home province, hence provide normal manpower (always better than colony's 45 manpower) and normal province income (always better than colony).

2. Asian Russia require colonization, which would be your religion and your culture.

3. It also has good resource, and a few province in Central Asia actually gives large manpower.

Colonies can have much higher base taxes, are much easier to defend by sea, are instantly converted to your culture and religion, don't cost infamy and don't require vast amounts of men to take. Which is important since with the manpower changes in 5.2 total war is only possible every ten years even for land juggernauts like Austria and France, never mind the Naval powers.

1. Fighting hordes would not cost you infamy, besides you do want to have some infamy all the time.

2. Even with all building upgrade, National Ideas increasing income and all effects tax income would never go beyond 4 even for best colony province.

3. Province still gives more manpower in the end.

Recently Paradox had a big EU4 MP session for Gaming journalists and Developers. The guy who won managed it because while everyone else was squabbling all over the Old World he fortified the border with France, formed Spain and took all the of Americas.

This has little to do with EU4; in EU3 colonize America coast would not even finish without 200 years.

[SLN445]

With colonies in EU3 its all about trade,production and Tariffs, a massive colony in America for example is not only safe from most nations if you have a strong navy but when played right can bring you in immense income that can dwarf anything that a European land power can manage without being an immense blob.
Sure you get little Tax but production is usualy considerably high expecialy in India, South America or the gold mine that is the Caribean, and it all goes into Tarriffs,

In most of the MP games ive played, the wealthiest nations tend to be Britain, Spain and other Colonising nations that exploit the hell out of it while the non-colonisers tend to be poorer.

Also someone said Africa is poor, if you move there and abuse it right its a great spot for a Trader :p the resources may not be great but you can squeeze a decent income out of it pluss a lot of room for trade buildings to maximise Trade Efficiency to outcompete most nations. I was playing a Morocco Africa one MP game that was in the top 5 of wealth and wouldve been more had i chose to go Mercantalist.

[hellheaven1987]

A massive provinces in Russia is even better; and not to mention you can colonize Asian Russia relatively without competitor and they are counted as proper province instead colony if they link to your capital. You can then bully those East Asians for fun later on and annex their rich provinces as proper province again.