RS 2.5 suggestions lol Horde armies / in game hints / balance / user friendly fixes

[whitewolfmxc]

as topic for 2.5 so far , heres what i feel that can be improved :


1) Spain.........they just kick Carthage's ass EVERY GAME i play , and ive at least got around 100 hours game play fro 2.5 , the problem is they can recruit a lot more armies than Carthage and that land bridge kills it even easier (and the fact the province right at that crossing is usually weak developed or started weak i dont know which is the egg or chicken) , and same reason where the largest carthage cities with good armies are all in the middle of Africa and that land bridge area just gets swarmed fast and they will lose all Spain just as fast because they dont know how to reinforce them (AI is crap with ship transports and the current little fleet syndrome makes it even worst to carry soldiers around safely for AI )


2) since the mod can utilize BI exe , why not allow Horde factions ? im tired of mid game a brick ton of countries being killed off so soon and i get there and its one super faction i have to fight , not that its not challenging but it gets bored fighting the same army over and over again , and addition perhaps a script that helps "AI losing nations" ? i really want a diverse late game and not just clash of super powers


3) ok theres a lot of questions regarding people dont know what barracks (or resources they need) to recruit X Y Z unit , can we have a "nation army building tree building" (its really a 0 turn 0 money building you can build in a settlement) that has detail info (in the show building detail page) and lists all the "special "units that 1 country that can recruit (not counting mercs ) and what they need to do so etc , this just helps a lot in settlement building / army planning , this is obviously needed more for Rome faction


4) is there any way that once you acquired map information the mini map will auto update the "faction progress " on its own (colors change on known provinces at least) ? im sure a lot of people are tired of the sending out diplomats game just to know If your allies need help and where etc



5) related to the above , can we please increase agent "maximum" movement points (the red / blue movement lines after they finished the green movement) ? im tired of having to baby sit diplomats and spies to go to places , especially when you have a ton of them already , this really helps us speed up our turns


6) an AI issue i always find funny , the turn a nation they ask for ceasefire , the same turn their SHIPS attack you , its always the ships i find having trouble to "keep the peace" any chance there can be a fix in that AI department ? perhaps let AI use thier diplomats at the END of thier turn instead of early ? that way it can somewhat avoid the ships attacking in the same turn ?


7) This is more of a small request tidbit.......but humm...... any chance we can have a 3rd slave revolt ? (Spartacus) going for Rome ? (after they have the Marius reforms but before the second rebellion in game) i would love to be able to fight (or Be) Spartacus in game (as well as use those Rome Vanillia Gladiator models in game XD HAHHAHAHA) , capua and the whole south italy can revolt like at the start of the game lol

[Darth Bane1]

1)Well, Carthage lost all it's regions in Spain because of the Spanish tribes. The Gallaeci are pretty strong. Those Iberian
Elite Scutarii can make some mess... But I don't think it gets changed in the next version. Didn't read anything...

2)The script already helps the AI with extra garrison when you besiege their cities and when you take out a faction too
fast, then a scripted army or more will appear out of nowhere. And these are strong armies. Most of them have silver
weapons/armor and a siege weapon.

3)This gets easier over time when you play more. I don't have problems with that anymore. When you know how it works and where you get good units, then it's pretty easy... In the case of Rome, there you can look: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...nd-Information The middle post has the line "Roman Graphics". There are 3 building trees. A little bit outdated, but still usefull.

4)I think that's hardcoded. You can turn the battle shadow off by a cheat... But I don't know this one. I don't need it...

5)For this you'll have to edit a text file, but I don't know exactly which one it is. But I would advise, don't recruit so much
agents. I only need 3 Spies. That's enough...

6)The AI is too stupid. But there is a way that he accepts everything. That's forced diplomacy. You only need to
use your diplomat, make a diplomatic conversation, make your proposal/demands, click on the ? button in the right
corner, advisor will pop up and then click on the show me how button. Send to the AI and he will accept it.

7)Will also not going to happen, but it's a cool idea. Could be scripted, too.

[ur-Lord Tedric]

That's an interesting comment Darth' - for No7 I have actually raised!

Some of the others - given I don't think any game should just give freebies - then I certainly hope not. There were no satellites 2,000 years ago - you want to know something, you go look.

[whitewolfmxc]

darth : you not getting where im coming from , im not asking this for me , but for most people who arent going to be on forums this much to read through all the hints and such

i myself know all what you said already above , ive been on this mod for a lot longer than 100 hours (thats just for 2.5) , and the cheats is not a answer to the problems , and its not the same thing : like the whole map thing , i dont Need to know whats going on in the whole word , i only need to know when a province is Taken by who , thats all i need to know , and reveal the whole map every rturn is a nonsense chore , and if you keep it open and press end turn , youd most likely get a CTD due to too many things going on as seen


Tedric :

realism aside yes , that would be a bit too modern , but it also help improves the player experience so depends on how middle you want to take this , especially when spies dont have enough LOS as well as limited numbers (more due to it takes too much effort to manually MOVE anyone that far as ive said before )and the time it takes to baby sit them (as ive talked about on the first post on movement) , and im pretty sure News still travel back in the roman times , if its too much for ones taste you can make a new scripted event if the "travelers way station" is built in your capital the more you upgrade it (as well as having more of these buildings in your provinces) the more frequent (its random) news "event" shows up at the start of your turn , Showing you the "mini map revealed" when you click on it , event name like "news from afar "

just think of how this will make the mod more enjoyable and still somewhat realistic , im sure if your allied to Rome , rome will send someone tell you the city ROME has been taken by someone else.......... and now you have to go help them take it back etc instead of 50 turns later you find out Rome has been wiped and now you need to fight a mega Spaniard empire......

[Post Hoc]

Toggle_fow comes in handy

[whitewolfmxc]

again im not asking for cheats for the sake of cheats if you actually read what i wrote , i dont want to know where the enemy army is , i dont need to know whos ship is coming towards me with full troops , i just want to know some realistic news without having to cheat and learn all things i shouldnt in the process ,

i want to play a "living" empire that actually needs to use some Real diplomacy with use of intel that i dont have to micromanage 200 spies with (in my games ive actually done a lot of taken back my allies land from their enemies and sent them back to the allies etc) instead of just me worrying about myself , the game has enough micromanagement as it is now already

[Post Hoc]

Well your out of luck. I did read what you actually wrote, but what your talking about i believe to be impossible.

Now what you could do is pan to the bottom left corner of the map, Toggle_fow and look at the minimap for a split second only focusing on the territory you want, as to see what regions your 'ally' has. Or just have a diplomat in the area and ask for map information when you want.

I'm just trying to help you.

[Darth Bane1]

Or map information, with Forced Diplomacy. I do it like that: I send a spy in a area that I want to find out who's there. So he is there and now I can see what's happening. I keep him there so long, until I have conquered that region. 200 Spies...
It's no wonder that you can't control all without using too much time. Do it as I said. Just use a maxmium of 3 spies. That's enough.

When you want to what's happening, then you'll have to find out what's going on. It's meant to be like that. When I already know what's happening then it gets boring for me... The people at this time also didn't know how exactly the world looks like and where some lands are. A good example: Aristoteles thought the world ends at the Hindukusch and Alexander the Great wanted to proof that. After murdering through Persia he came to his target and oh wonder... The world doesn't end there! So he found India and made a bad mistake, but that's another story...

For the other things, Rome is not that simple as you think. Most of it is hardcoded, so it CAN'T be changed. The rest can you do via text editing, but that's hard work and requires a lot of time, plus good knowledge to make it properly.

@Tedric

Thanks. That's what I tried to explain.

[Crymson]

as topic for 2.5 so far , heres what i feel that can be improved:

Thanks for this post, and please do continue to make them. Though I am only a lowly beta tester, I know that all constructive feedback is useful.

1) Spain.........they just kick Carthage's ass EVERY GAME i play , and ive at least got around 100 hours game play fro 2.5 , the problem is they can recruit a lot more armies than Carthage and that land bridge kills it even easier (and the fact the province right at that crossing is usually weak developed or started weak i dont know which is the egg or chicken) , and same reason where the largest carthage cities with good armies are all in the middle of Africa and that land bridge area just gets swarmed fast and they will lose all Spain just as fast because they dont know how to reinforce them (AI is crap with ship transports and the current little fleet syndrome makes it even worst to carry soldiers around safely for AI )

The Gallaeci are overpowered. Part of this is the immense amount of money made available to them in the form of mines. I know that the developers are aware of this; it is being examined for 2.6. I personally also agree that the landbridge should be nixed.

2) since the mod can utilize BI exe , why not allow Horde factions ? im tired of mid game a brick ton of countries being killed off so soon and i get there and its one super faction i have to fight , not that its not challenging but it gets bored fighting the same army over and over again , and addition perhaps a script that helps "AI losing nations" ? i really want a diverse late game and not just clash of super powers

Horde factions would be unrealistic for the time. The Parthians, Sarmatians, and Saka were the major steppe tribes throughout the time period this mod encompasses (though the latter were too far east for this mod to pay attention to), and this did not change until well into the Imperial era. There were no migrating nations in the area at the time. More, granting this ability to any faction would be unrealistic; with the exception of the Sarmatians, the factions in the game were settled rather than nomadic, and would stand and die rather than simply packing up and moving away if their cities were destroyed.

3) ok theres a lot of questions regarding people dont know what barracks (or resources they need) to recruit X Y Z unit , can we have a "nation army building tree building" (its really a 0 turn 0 money building you can build in a settlement) that has detail info (in the show building detail page) and lists all the "special "units that 1 country that can recruit (not counting mercs ) and what they need to do so etc , this just helps a lot in settlement building / army planning , this is obviously needed more for Rome faction

Not a bad idea, though it would be quite a bit of work. I know TATW does something along these lines, though its faction-specific info building only lists lore and exist from game's start (they don't need to be built). That said, I don't know much about building mechanics---specifically if there's a building limit in RTW or not---so I can't speak to the possibility of this.

4) is there any way that once you acquired map information the mini map will auto update the "faction progress " on its own (colors change on known provinces at least) ? im sure a lot of people are tired of the sending out diplomats game just to know If your allies need help and where etc

No. Personally, I play with fog of war off (this is done by opening the console [the ~ button] and typing toggle_fow); it strikes me as very unrealistic that a faction could only be aware of what was happening in a very small radius around its cities, armies, and functionaries. With some notable, very stupid exceptions, armies always scouted in a significant radius, and all nations had the benefit of information from their own citizens or those of the enemy. More, it's entirely true that some (though not all) nations would be aware of major territorial gains or losses in some areas of the region.

I find playing with fog of war off to be more realistic than playing with it on. Unfortunately, there's no happy medium between the two.

5) related to the above , can we please increase agent "maximum" movement points (the red / blue movement lines after they finished the green movement) ? im tired of having to baby sit diplomats and spies to go to places , especially when you have a ton of them already , this really helps us speed up our turns

I agree that it would be nice for diplomats to have more movement points. Awarding these to spies, however, would open up the door to some cheap strategies. I personally do not even use spies, as it seems hugely unrealistic to me that a single spy or even a group of spies could manage to slam all doors in a city's defenses wide open at the same time. That seems more like magic.

6) an AI issue i always find funny , the turn a nation they ask for ceasefire , the same turn their SHIPS attack you , its always the ships i find having trouble to "keep the peace" any chance there can be a fix in that AI department ? perhaps let AI use thier diplomats at the END of thier turn instead of early ? that way it can somewhat avoid the ships attacking in the same turn ?

Easy answer: the AI is beyond stupid in diplomacy. Sadly, this is hardcoded into the game; modders have no access to it. You're best off assuming that your neighbors will never respect a peace.

7) This is more of a small request tidbit.......but humm...... any chance we can have a 3rd slave revolt ? (Spartacus) going for Rome ? (after they have the Marius reforms but before the second rebellion in game) i would love to be able to fight (or Be) Spartacus in game (as well as use those Rome Vanillia Gladiator models in game XD HAHHAHAHA) , capua and the whole south italy can revolt like at the start of the game lol

It would be difficult to make the Third Servile War an actual threat to the player. Historically, it was only a threat because so many of Rome's legions were away fighting against Sertorius in Iberia and Mithridates IV in Asia Minor; this left Italy relatively bare of available forces. This would be a state of affairs unlikely to be prevailing in RTW. Further, whereas Spartacus and his men managed to do quite a bit of damage in the less than two years of his revolt, that is simply not possible in this game. A slave uprising would, in sum, simply result in the player taking a couple of legions and promptly stepping on it.

Simulating the war with a rebellion by the cities in southern Italy would be unrealistic. The slaves never took any notable cities, let alone one of the size and prosperity of Capua; they lacked the wherewithal to do so. Instead, they focused their efforts on raiding. More, it has been speculated by numerous historians that the main goal of the slave army was to escape Italy. Whatever the case, its goal was certainly not to capture Italy, and this ability was vastly beyond its capacities anyhow.

This is a minor point, but the gladiator models in vanilla RTW were very unrealistic. The average slave in Spartacus's revolt was poorly armored or decked out in equipment looted from Roman soldiers. More, they no longer exist in the mod, which is, too, at the limit for unit models already.

1)Well, Carthage lost all it's regions in Spain because of the Spanish tribes.

Carthage lost its primary holdings in Spain to the Romans during the Second Punic War.

[dvk901]

Thanks for the comments. As mentioned already, there are things in RTW that just can't be changed. Diplomacy is stupid in RTW, and it will continue to be stupid because there is no way except forced diplomacy to enforce any modding wizardry on the AI. I know the ships attacking after their diplomat makes peace is pretty 'odd'....experienced it myself. My reaction has been to 'punish' the faction involved by taking an army, attacking a poorly defended city, and then burn it to the ground and leave. You'd be amazed how this influences the AI for some reason.

Bear in mind also that if you play with FOW turned off, the AI can also 'see' everything YOU can see...including all of your armies.
This has been proven over and over, and a very good and simple one is that the AI will stop asking for map information after a while...they don't need it. The point of this is that to stop a faction from being irritating when you don't want to invade them necessarily, you can mass a few armies on their border, go in and sack one of their settlements, and then leave. In cases where the AI asks for a 'ceasefire' and then a ship attacks, the AI is dealing with two things...it needs time and money to build more armies to attack you with, so it asks for a ceasefire, and let's face it, AI factions are coded to attack you, they have never had any coded intention of keeping the peace. Their self interest is to survive and kill you off by any means possible. BUT, they also are coded to deprive YOU of money...thus, the ships blockading your ports. Apparently, whomever coded RTW didn't reconcile this bid of code with a land army ceasefire.

The AI in RTW is, however, pretty conscious of being 'threatened'. So the move I have described is a good way to 'threaten' the AI faction and make them behave a little better. Not saying it 'always' works out, but I have seen it work many times.

We have also done a lot of work on balance for version 2.6.....and one of those issues was Spain having too much money and clobbering Carthage a lot. That will definitely be better in 2.6.

[Luxchamp]

i don't know if someone's aware of this, but the LotR mod by wlesmana and bardo has special advisor messages popping up when Minas Tirith is besieged - perhaps something similar could be implemented for the capitals of the RS factions?

[ImperialAquila]

i don't know if someone's aware of this, but the LotR mod by wlesmana and bardo has special advisor messages popping up when Minas Tirith is besieged - perhaps something similar could be implemented for the capitals of the RS factions?

This.

It is possible and I think one could write the script in a way that might inform you of not only besieged capitals but with other cities as well. But with the number of scripts already in RS2.5, I think adding more will only cause more harm than good.

I play with 4 spies and 4 diplomats (North, South, East, and West) and it seems to be more than enough to get a good view of what is happening beyond your borders. No need to use cheats to effectively "see" the territorial changes on the entire map.

And Carthage usually loses Spain. I've seen it many times in different campaigns so to me, it's well in the norm. The Spanish tribes have money to squander on full stacks owing to the resources they have. Not to mention the money script if they run low on funds. If left unchecked, they sometimes overrun all of Gaul.

[Crymson]

i don't know if someone's aware of this, but the LotR mod by wlesmana and bardo has special advisor messages popping up when Minas Tirith is besieged - perhaps something similar could be implemented for the capitals of the RS factions?

I don't think that this is possible. M2TW allows for vastly more scripting than RTW does. It's a shame that this trend didn't continue on into the next-gen TW games.

[ImperialAquila]

I don't think that this is possible. M2TW allows for vastly more scripting than RTW does. It's a shame that this trend didn't continue on into the next-gen TW games.

I think you were thinking about TATW for M2TW. He was talking about LotR Mod which is for RTW Alex.

[Crymson]

I think you were thinking about TATW for M2TW. He was talking about LotR Mod which is for RTW Alex.

Then it's possible, at least for Alex.

[Voice of Treason]

Just my two-penneths worth. Pound for pound, I would say the Roma Surrectum 2.5 one turn campaign is one of the best balanced mod out there.
Actually, as far as overall gameplay, balance, impeccable units, variety, tunes and stability (I’ve had CTD’s...but you can always roll back a turn and play through provide you do one element “different”, they’re never replicable... I would say The One turn campaign is the best mod out there. Period.
I think the only customizations I ever made was (One turn campaign, obviously)
Spain denarii 8000 in DST
Diametric opposite Scythia (Sarmatians) 12000 denarii in DST
Some of the high tier Sarmatian archers/lancer units numbers reduced by a third in EDU
in EDB my population reduction population_growth_bonus went suburb-5 ,village-6, town-7 cities-8
...and I added one extra copied “plague” late in historical events for the late population purge.
I played that set-up solidly from the “Rome II” announcement (I band-wagon jumped from MED II ) til about 3 weeks ago when I thought I better try something else for variety