Saving Private Octavian ....and more..

**Sun Jetzu** · May 27, 2013, 09:02 AM

something like this, added by a poster

So ive been thinking of naval invasions and how I will take advantage of sea/land beach landings and alot of questions come to mind.
For starters they mentioned in the Siege of Carthage Demo that they wanted it to have a saving private ryan feel to it. Well I was curious about this. In saving private ryan they were invading the Normandy Coast, so it wasn't a walled city. So will we be able to land armies only to invade cities or can we do it to invade coast lines too (with land/naval combat)? I was thinking at the benefit of besieging a city through a land invasion and wondered if anyone knew if this actually happened in the ancient world? And how effective is it? I feel that the beaches would tire your men out alot, and then they would have to attack the walls (if it was a walled city). Sounds really tiring, I would rather just land an army away from the city and siege it by land. This leads me to the question, Can I siege a city by land and reinforce it through a beach landing? They mentioned us being able to maneuver our ships around the coast for the best landing spot, so will that mean that some parts of the beach will be safer to land than others? I guess the only advantage I can see to having your ships landing units on a beach is if your sneaking them on the cities flank, and if your boats have catapults to siege the walls as well. Witch I wanted to ask if trireme ships had catapults on them? Wasn't sure if this was historically accurate.
I was thinking of more strategies with a beach invasion and probably the biggest on would be, being able to flank enemy units that are close to the beaches, and are already under attack by land forces. Another question is, will the navy be able to fight off another navy on the same map while we are besieging the city, or landing our troops? I would love to destroy transport ships in the ocean before they reach the beach.
If we're defending the beaches (witch they mentioned is going to be strategically important), will we be able to booby trap the beaches with pits of spikes and other obstacles that could make it very difficult to land on them? If hundreds of soldiers die on the beaches (and we have a blood pack) will the beach water be red as blood?
Since this is a new feature to Total War I want to know the advantages and strategy before I start playing the game, that way I can use them to full effect when the game comes out.

Okay another question I had was if anyone knows if we will be able to buy an upgrade for units that are levy type units. In every game I hated having a large stack of veteran levy units and having to get rid of them to afford the awesome advanced units. I always either sacrificed them as a large human shield or just disbanded them. I want to know if we can just upgrade a levy infantry into say a legionnaire, that way he can keep all the experience from years of war?
I think its awesome we can name and color our own units and happy that CA took a suggestion from the forums and added it to the game. See guys we can make a difference if just make the difference aware to all!
Lastly
Can anyone tell me the song playing at the end of the announcement trailer? I cant find it to save my life right now, but I believe it was at the end of the siege of Carthage. It was a little tune that was in the original Rome but sounded a bit newer. If I can find the video I'll update this but I was just wondering if anyone knows what I'm talking about lol
UPDATE:

I found the song, and low and behold its the Greek intro!!! this my rigntone now lol

**SturmChurro** · May 27, 2013, 09:17 AM

In the Siege of Carthage video they had quite a bit of land to actually set up and cover to actually get to the walls. It wasn't like they were being hit with constant machine gun fire right as they landed. Not to mention the Romans had defenses built as they landed already. I don't really see them getting hit by too much arrow fire even if there were some archers set up on the side walls like in the video that were closer to the beach. I guess as the defender you could meet them out, I don't know how well that would turn out in the long run for the defender though, abandoning their walls. Blood red water would be damn awesome, though.

**Sun Jetzu** · May 27, 2013, 10:28 AM

Originally Posted by SturmChurro

It wasn't like they were being hit with constant machine gun fire right as they landed. Blood red water would be damn awesome, though.

hahahah its like, yea I'm gonna take this town, wait they have MG-42's on the walls! no!!!!
Okay but isnt the siege of carthage just a historical battle? So they would have all the defenses already raised and the city would have been besieged for years already.
I'm talking about a grand campaign naval landing. Will upgrading the walla also upgrade beaches? Or will you have to do that on a separate slot? And as a defender, I would stay in the castle, it would suck though if they had naval artillery with them though.

**SturmChurro** · May 27, 2013, 10:49 AM

Originally Posted by Sun Jetzu

hahahah its like, yea I'm gonna take this town, wait they have MG-42's on the walls! no!!!!
Okay but isnt the siege of carthage just a historical battle? So they would have all the defenses already raised and the city would have been besieged for years already.
I'm talking about a grand campaign naval landing. Will upgrading the walla also upgrade beaches? Or will you have to do that on a separate slot? And as a defender, I would stay in the castle, it would suck though if they had naval artillery with them though.

Maybe you can extend the siege for more than one turn and build defenses as the attacker?

Each turn is a year anyway. Your best bet for fighting against the initial naval landing as the defender would probably be to use artillery. If you look at the Siege of Carthage video they actually had artillery, albeit it looked very inaccurate. Either way with artillery or fire arrows you will probably be able to do quite a bit of damage to the attackers and their equipment.

**green tea** · May 27, 2013, 10:37 AM

Perhaps CA should do sth with WW2, mortars, machineguns and explosions. All this artillery-fixation is in my opinion not really fitting for the antique world. As far as I know, battles were still decided by sword and spear at that time, not catapults with exploding stuff like in that second Lord of the rings movie.

**Sun Jetzu** · May 27, 2013, 11:03 AM

I just dont think its tactically smart to attack a walled city by sea without at least having a pinning force by land on the other side of the city. I guess you could enter harbors and stuff instead of actually attack the walls.
And Green Tea im also thinking that fights were decided mainly by sword. Thats why i didnt waste time on artillery in shogun 2 lol

**SturmChurro** · May 27, 2013, 11:05 AM

Originally Posted by Sun Jetzu

And Green Tea im also thinking that fights were decided mainly by sword. Thats why i didnt waste time on artillery in shogun 2 lol

More like the arrow in SHOGUN 2.

**~~oOIYvYIOo~~** · May 27, 2013, 11:52 AM

Originally Posted by Sun Jetzu

I just dont think its tactically smart to attack a walled city by sea without at least having a pinning force by land on the other side of the city. I guess you could enter harbors and stuff instead of actually attack the walls.
And Green Tea im also thinking that fights were decided mainly by sword. Thats why i didnt waste time on artillery in shogun 2 lol

Dont you think it would be suicidal for a invasor people to send only 2 ships at the same time(its what the space of the harbour entrance allows) ,full of men, disembark ,and than come out of the harbour for other ships to enter ,all of this under fire of catapults and surely no ship would manage to enter the harbour as they were easily sunk or put under fire ?
Not all you see in trailers and books its real .
You see some ships enter in the Cartaginian harbour due it could happen after months of siege, due the attack on the walls have reached is climax and the romans mange to destroy some walls and there was romans alreayd in the streets and all the soliers of Carthage were on the walls and streets .

**Sun Jetzu** · May 27, 2013, 12:40 PM

Originally Posted by oOIYvYIOo

Dont you think it would be suicidal for a invasor people to send only 2 ships at the same time(its what the space of the harbour entrance allows) ,full of men, disembark ,and than come out of the harbour for other ships to enter ,all of this under fire of catapults and surely no ship would manage to enter the harbour as they were easily sunk or put under fire ?
Not all you see in trailers and books its real .
You see some ships enter in the Cartaginian harbour due it could happen after months of siege, due the attack on the walls have reached is climax and the romans mange to destroy some walls and there was romans alreayd in the streets and all the soliers of Carthage were on the walls and streets .

yea i was saying that as example because of the video showing you could get a force in the harbor. if there are more cities like this then yea i would send in a suicidal force to try and capture a wall through the dock lol but i guess i was just grasping at straws trying to find tactics in the new naval/land combat

**DeadlyPhoenix** · May 27, 2013, 11:34 AM

Legit and interesting questions, I'd definitely like some elaborated and official answers to this if possible to give us more indepth in the overall gameplay.

**|Sith|Galvanized Iron** · May 27, 2013, 11:43 AM

Anyone remembering the ridiculous beach landing scene from Robin Hood (2010)?

**Sun Jetzu** · May 27, 2013, 11:48 AM

Originally Posted by |Sith|Galvanized Iron

Anyone remembering the ridiculous beach landing scene from Robin Hood (2010)?

i literally wanted to watch that movie soley on the beach landings, but it got god awful reviews so i resisted. and thanks deadly phoenix, i just feel we need to know everything about this new feature. Because if i can use it tactically, i bloody will lol

**Dan113112** · May 27, 2013, 05:09 PM

Originally Posted by |Sith|Galvanized Iron

Anyone remembering the ridiculous beach landing scene from Robin Hood (2010)?

That was my favorite scene from the entire movie. It wasn't unrealistic in my opinion but not historically correct either. None of the movie really is except parts of the beginning.

Originally Posted by Aethelwulf Winterfilleð

Something like this!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpLtXIlkyYA

Exactly what I was thinking. This clip should be added to the OP.

**RGA** · May 27, 2013, 12:29 PM

IIRC Carthage was built on a hillside with the only easily accessible side facing the sea. Few city was built like in RTW, i.e. in the middle of grassland with all sides exposed to attack. In some cases it was even impossible to completely cut off a city from its supply line (siege of Antioch by the Crusaders in 1097).

**Thunderbolt II** · May 27, 2013, 04:59 PM

If a city is located on a river, I wonder if you could enter the city with your navy. CA mentioned something about possibly having naval battles on rivers. I don't know if that has been verified yet.

**Aymer de Valence** · May 27, 2013, 05:05 PM

Something like this!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpLtXIlkyYA

**torongill** · May 27, 2013, 05:16 PM

Caesar's British landings are a case where you can use these combined battles to the fullest - if the enemy force is waiting for you at the beach, discourage them with a balista/scorpion/onager barrage. When they give you breathing space you move closer to the shore and continue to harass them. When you have enough space you disembark and deploy your men. To me it sounds just about perfect.

**Sun Jetzu** · May 27, 2013, 05:42 PM

Originally Posted by torongill

Caesar's British landings are a case where you can use these combined battles to the fullest - if the enemy force is waiting for you at the beach, discourage them with a balista/scorpion/onager barrage. When they give you breathing space you move closer to the shore and continue to harass them. When you have enough space you disembark and deploy your men. To me it sounds just about perfect.

i was wondering if enemy fleets could also attack your fleets while your troops fight troops on land. wow thats alot lol and Dan113112, the vids on the OP

**Caesar15** · May 27, 2013, 05:57 PM

A naval invasion and a battle at the same time?! That's like if the germans had a fleet waiting for the Allies at normandy.

**Sun Jetzu** · May 27, 2013, 06:03 PM

Originally Posted by Caesar15

A naval invasion and a battle at the same time?! That's like if the Germans had a fleet waiting for the Allies at normandy.

exactly, the invaders battleships will be trying to protect the troop ships while the battle raging on the ground. Duel combat at the same time, this is something completely new. For the first time we "should" have the ability to wage warfare on two different mediums at the same time.
It would be as though a huge Greek fleet lands at troy, and then an equally big Trojan fleet flanks them from behind. it would be Double Encirclement but by land and by sea