Building ships

[CaesarOfSeleucid]

I have a question:

When a faction like the suebi or the arveni conquer a territory at the sea, shouldn't they first research a ship thing before building a fleet. I mean it is impossible for a faction that has never see the sea before to build a fleet. The romans did't have a fleet either, but after they found one of carthage on the beach they copied it because then they knew how to build one. But factions like Athens, Egypt, etc... should be able to build them from the beginning. This is not about tradeships but about warships.

[kamikazee786]

hmm this makes me wonder how ships will be built overall,we know that recruitment will now mean placing a general into "muster mode" and then selecting whatever units you want,

i wonder if naval recruitment will require an admiral in different sea regions ?

[Aymer de Valence]

Theoretically this should be the case, but for balance I doubt it will be. This will be one section of Rome II which could either go well, or REALLY badly. It is only a game, and therefore there's only so much the developers can do to make it realistic. But I hope the barbarian factions will use ropes to board enemy vessels and not the 'corvus' which Rome will use (probably Carthage will be given this too). There should at least be some distinction between cultures more than just ship type

hmm this makes me wonder how ships will be built overall

Hopefully the reduction in ship-building costs which was present in Napoleon TW with logging camps etc will be present in Rome 2!

[Marcus Aemilius Lepidus]

I have a question:

When a faction like the suebi or the arveni conquer a territory at the sea, shouldn't they first research a ship thing before building a fleet. I mean it is impossible for a faction that has never see the sea before to build a fleet. The romans did't have a fleet either, but after they found one of carthage on the beach they copied it because then they knew how to build one. But factions like Athens, Egypt, etc... should be able to build them from the beginning. This is not about tradeships but about warships.

No they should not need to research shipbuilding first. Shipbuilding was universally known to allmost every culture in the world and it requires not much to build ships. They didn't build huge types like the greeks did, but to be honest they would have sunken in the atlantic ocean, the north and baltic sea. They were made for the calm Mediterranean Sea.

In fact the find the germanic warriors in Rome 2 are made of is a ship.


The so called Hjortspringboot. Here a reconstruction.

This kind of ships were used by warriorbands long before our starting date in Rome 2.
Similar ships are also described by Caesar and used by the Gauls.

They are perfect for the ruffer nordic sea, while the romans often lost entire fleets and cohorts/legions on the sea, as can be read by Tacitus, regarding the Germanicus Campaigns.

Tacitus Annales 2.23 and 24, English Translation.

When, however, summer was at its height some of the legions were sent back overland into winter-quarters, but most of them Caesar put on board the fleet and brought down the river Amisia to the ocean. At first the calm waters merely sounded with the oars of a thousand vessels or were ruffled by the sailing ships. Soon, a hailstorm bursting from a black mass of clouds, while the waves rolled hither and thither under tempestuous gales from every quarter, rendered clear sight impossible, and the steering difficult, while our soldiers, terrorstricken and without any experience of disasters on the sea, by embarrassing the sailors or giving them clumsy aid, neutralized the services of the skilled crews. After a while, wind and wave shifted wholly to the south, and from the hilly lands and deep rivers of Germany came with a huge line of rolling clouds, a strong blast, all the more frightful from the frozen north which was so near to them, and instantly caught and drove the ships hither and thither into the open ocean, or on islands with steep cliffs or which hidden shoals made perilous. these they just escaped, with difficulty, and when the tide changed and bore them the same way as the wind, they could not hold to their anchors or bale out the water which rushed in upon them. Horses, beasts of burden, baggage, were thrown overboard, in order to lighten the hulls which leaked copiously through their sides, while the waves too dashed over them.

As the ocean is stormier than all other seas, and as Germany is conspicuous for the terrors of its climate, so in novelty and extent did this disaster transcend every other, for all around were hostile coasts, or an expanse so vast and deep that it is thought to be the remotest shoreless sea. Some of the vessels were swallowed up; many were wrecked on distant islands, and the soldiers, finding there no form of human life, perished of hunger, except some who supported existence on carcases of horses washed on the same shores. Germanicus's trireme alone reached the country of the Chauci. Day and night, on those rocks and promontories he would incessantly exclaim that he was himself responsible for this awful ruin, and friends scarce restrained him from seeking death in the same sea. At last, as the tide ebbed and the wind blew favourably, the shattered vessels with but few rowers, or clothing spread as sails, some towed by the more powerful, returned, and Germanicus, having speedily repaired them, sent them to search the islands. Many by that means were recovered. The Angrivarii, who had lately been admitted to our alliance, restored to us several had ransomed from the inland tribes. Some had been carried to Britain and were sent back by the petty chiefs. Every one, as he returned from some far-distant region, told of wonders, of violent hurricanes, and unknown birds, of monsters of the sea, of forms half-human, half beast-like, things they had really seen or in their terror believed.

[CaesarOfSeleucid]

Thanks for the reply, you do have a point.
But in sea battles, let's say gauls attack a fleet of carthage, shouldn't there be a huge advantage for carthage. So playing as barbarians will be a really pain in Rome II

[-=PHX=-Hades]

Thanks for the reply, you do have a point.
But in sea battles, let's say gauls attack a fleet of carthage, shouldn't there be a huge advantage for carthage. So playing as barbarians will be a really pain in Rome II

I would assume Carthage's ships will be far more advanced than Gaul's, so yes they will have the advantage in that area.

[oppaiO_O]

i believe everybody at the start should be allowed to build their own basic sucky ships, but later on either through encounters or the tech tree they get the chance to build better ships. though factions that have "naval superiority" should get better ships at the start or have the tech necessary already researched....

[rohirrimelf]

Well i dont know if you should get better ships if you have a naval superiority historically. Ive been reading about the Peloppolesian war between Athens and Sparta some time before the start of the game. I dont think the city states used vastly different types of ships. It was more about how you use them in battle. Ill rather see a diffent system that does not focus on which type of ship you use but more on how good a faction is at using them.

[jtfjtfjtf]

Did someone from CA say that units will have integral transport ships now? So if you wanted to do a beach landing assault it wasn't complicated. And then you can build the war oriented ships that would be escorts.

[Marcus Aemilius Lepidus]

I would assume Carthage's ships will be far more advanced than Gaul's, so yes they will have the advantage in that area.

I don't know how it will be in Rome 2, but technically Carthage would have difficulties to play their advantage outside the Mediterranean Sea. Historically the Gauls which used ships in larger numbers settled on the Gulf of Biscaya and the other Atlanticcoasts. As i wrote, the larger Triremes which were the basic warships for the most factions, would have difficulties and weren't used on the atlantic coast. The ships which could be used were the merchant ship classes, the largest class of this typ is the Bireme, which was largely used by the carthagians, but without the battering ramm om the atlantic ocean.



This is how this merchant ships could looked like.

Also we should not underestimate the values of smaller warships like the "Barbarians" used. They were classical raid and pirateships.

Wrong time, but to imagine the value of smaller ships. In the 11th century the seapower of Arkona, (located by the famous white cliffs of Rügen/Isle in North Germany) was able to terrorize and raid with a fleet of around 1000 dugout canoes the entire baltic sea for decades. Finally large parts of the fleet was destroyed in Norway and the Danes conquered the last Slavic Sancturary in modern Germany, but it shows, not to underestimate smaller ships.
Finally Agrippa won in Actium also because he had smaller, but more ships than Antonius and Cleopatra.

Well i dont know if you should get better ships if you have a naval superiority historically. Ive been reading about the Peloppolesian war between Athens and Sparta some time before the start of the game. I dont think the city states used vastly different types of ships. It was more about how you use them in battle. Ill rather see a diffent system that does not focus on which type of ship you use but more on how good a faction is at using them.

Historically Naval Warfare stagnated after the Romans builded their Empire around the Mediterranean sea. There were only few innovations, which is one reason why in the Medieval Times, Galleys were still in use. Technological Advances appear in times of Competition. For ships examples are the Greek Wars, Diadochy or Punic Wars.