Steam is the RTW2 deal-breaker - here is why

[removeduser_45762834756]

You've got to show the suits that investing the time and resources into making this separate product would increase the profits of their franchise.

youp i know, regardeless of that, what i said about it:

... If all games were like that, it would be an ideal situation for everybody(consumers), those who want Steam can use it, while those who don't want it, are not forced to use it, as simple as that...

being the ideal way for us the consumers, remains there...


-------------------------

The Original Dawn of War, indeed didnt use Steamworks for multiplayer, it used game for windows live......And everyone hated it

I think i already said that...

The latest Dawn of War 2 (Retribution) DID (pretty sure) use Steamworks for multiplayer though. I think CoH2 is using Steam for multiplayer also as they also found out how bad GFWL is

I think there must have been a reason, as to why i did not mentioned Dawn of War 2, don't you think?

For any multiplayer game, Steams support is just so massive and good that they have to use it as there is no good alternative (unless your Blizzard).

Say that to any MMO....

[Siven]

I never said it was simple, and i know what you talking about, but Company of Heroes, for example, or Warhammer 40k (1 + expansions) did not required steam to be played online(multiplayer) neither any TW games previous to Empire... they merged the games into Steam on purpose, am sure they can reverse it if they wish...

PS: before you or somebody else tells me, that it takes time and money to do so, am sure merging the games into steam in the first place, also required time and money, yet here we are

EDIT: i might be wrong about CoH(it might have required Game for Windows Live) duno why but a bit unsure now, its been a wile... anyway...

The Original Dawn of War 2 (warhammer 40k) indeed didnt use Steamworks for multiplayer, it used game for windows live......And everyone hated it.

The latest Dawn of War 2 (Retribution) DID (pretty sure) use Steamworks for multiplayer though. I think CoH2 is using Steam for multiplayer also as they also found out how bad GFWL is.

For any multiplayer game, Steams support is just so massive and good that they have to use it as there is no good alternative (unless your Blizzard).

[King Philip II]

OP Orders:

Back to subject please. Most of us have no clue about the games you are talking about, much less with all the abbreviations and acronyms.

The subject of the Thread is ROME TOTAL WAR II and Steam support.

Thank you

[removeduser_45762834756]

OP Orders:

Friendly remainder sounds better... i don't like being given orders...

[Crazyeyesreaper]

They are giving legitimate examples to why steam is used and its purpose if your unable to understand these principles why start the flame thread to begin with. I have seen this thread spring up every time from Empire to Napoleon to Shogun 2 and now Rome2. At the end of the day all the people complaining usually still end up buying the game and playing it anyway.

Steam handles not only Rome II DRM it handles the Multiplayer aspect as well including leader boards co-op campaigns etc. Steam also allows for easy integration of DLC and extra content.

Server costs for multiplayer yes lets have CA for Rome II go back to the days of gamespy which was pretty much spyware lol and had terrible support and laggy servers. Yes lets have CA create a completely stripped down non steam version with no multiplayer no coop no head to head and phyiscal DLC packs so that on launch day I can listen to your TWC double moan and complain because he doesnt have multiplayer support.

Simply put most people are in fact morons.
People will buy the wrong version and get pissy about it
Most likely everyone hating on steam and Rome II for using it will still probably end up buying it. At launch? maybe not but when its $7.50 on sale I am pretty sure most here would purchase.
Very few ppl that complain here will step back and NOT get the game. If they did CA / Sega might make some SMALL chances but the fact is while people would like a NON steam version it wont keep them from purchasing so the 20-30,000 sales they may lose are considered acceptable loses as that represents 1% of sales if that.

As it stands Steam = cheaper overhead for Rome II, because yes Sega and CA have amazing stockpiles of cash to afford multiple server systems DRM schemes cross system multiplayer patching and DLC integration. So yes lets have a PC only game get further cash strapped by making Sega and CA spend a large amount of money on excess overhead to make the NON-Steam version a reality. You want Rome II to be Non- Steam start a Kickstarter or something of that nature to fund it for Sega / CA see how far you get.

As the saying goes Money Talks and ******** Walks. and CA / Sega regardless of saying it are calling the bluff of many who say they wont get it cause of steam.

Again go take a look at how console gamers are being treated with this next generation and tell me that Steam is bad. Always on camera that spys on you. It can detect how many ppl are on your couch so if you all watch a movie aka more ppl that allowed they can fine you for it. Mask the camera the system doesnt work. PS4 Sony is pushing PS Vita support for as many games as possible, Wii U forced tablet controller support. All of them are online system with online accounts that need some form of online support.

PC and Steam are now the least draconian platform available to developers with properly support systems in place. But yes Steam is so awful we have to demand a developer doesnt use it.

[removeduser_45762834756]

But yes Steam is so awful we have to demand a developer doesnt use it.

i do not think i have said in one single of my comments that steam is awful. or that no game should use it, i said pretty clear, that it should not be a requirement for us consumers to, even if we do not purchase the game on steam, be forced to use steam to play it... that all i said.

[Crazyeyesreaper]

i do not think i have said in one single of my comments that steam is awful. or that no game should use it, i said pretty clear, that it should not be a requirement for us consumers to, even if we do not purchase the game on steam, be forced to use steam to play it... that all i said.

My response is more direct at the OP and the likes of Humble Warrior who usually starts a similar thread with every Total War release.

As for the OP,

Multiplayer server backend to handle a large number users costs hundrends of thousands and in some cases upwards into the millions to pay for out of pocket, Steam supplies that from the get go
DRM like securom against costs hundrends of thousands doesnt really work, and offers extreme number of headaches.

Steam supplies both for very little cost because they take a cut with the sales. This lowers overhead if you buy say a Physical copy of the game, Steam still gets a cut due to Steamworks, Retail Giants need their cut as well. This results in less money in CA's pockets. Now imagine if they had to fund server back end out of pocket along for multiplayer / leaderboards / co-op and more. By using steam works and putting it on Steam, CA gets a bigger cut of the profits. Now this doesnt apply to all copies but it does apply to enough that it cuts costs. if server backend and multiplayer cost say $2 million over the games lifespan using Steam Works and working with Steam directly can cut costs significantly. Everything adds up. Creative Assembly has SOME freedom but at the end of the day they are owned by SEGA and they want record profits not mediocure profits.

Steam eliminates the need for programmers server overhead and so much more. say you have 4-5 guys who do network coding for the game engine to handle multiplayer in house the cost for those 4-5 guys if they are industry veterans is around 70-100k each thats 280,000 to 500,000 per year x 2-3 years for game development thats almost 900,000 to 1.5 million to code that from the ground up. Then you need these guys on hand to make changes to keep it working with each patch. Nothing in this world is free.

The average 3D artist makes around 45-65k say you got 20 guys in house thats 450 to 650k a year just on artists over 3 years thats 1.25 - 1.8 million give or take, Just making payroll on a large studio is massive. Add in everything else. And prices climb at insane rates. Then you end up with stupid costs like live action trailers lol and marketing budgets out of control.

Corprate culture in the video game business is cut throat.

Steam cuts costs ends of story compared to other alternatives.

Think about if you have access to the Empire multiplayer beta for campains, that game came out 4 years ago multiplayer still supported thanks to steam, Steam isnt going anywhere where as Gamespy is gone they went defunct.

Steam offers a long term attractive and cheaper option.

Steam is cheap its effective they have a good working relationship with developers.
They provide an easy to use and implement DRM thats not intrusive or limiting like securom they offer multiplayer server hosting and support.
They allow game modding and user generated content, where as companies like EA and Origin, making edits to say a few files in Mass Effect 3 can see your account banned.

You may not like it but Steam isnt going anywhere for CA / SEGA not unless you can pony up enough money to make it WORTH THEIR WHILE To do so.

At this stage Rome II wont drop steam just as Shogun 2 didnt Napoleon didnt and Empire didnt.
It would be possible if they had to code a new game engine from scratch. But considering the cost and time involved to create a properly functioning game engine, adapting current tools and tech and getting it stable thats a multi-million dollar project in and of itself. I dont see a new engine coming anytime in the future.

As for my confindence that comes from wasting alot of money attending college for Computer Animation and Graphics design at Full Sail University. Many of my friends work in that field at the likes of EA / Tiburon, Raven Software and more. Considering costs for these basic necessities tend to be fairly similar for most developers.

Developers like CA might care they might want to offer you that option of a non steam version. However they dont get to make that choice the PUBLISHER makes that choice aka SEGA. And considering how badly SEGA got burned by Gearbox over the Alien Colonial Marines fiasco I am surprised they are willing to maintain the Rome II budget. Regardless SEGA makes the money decisions CA does the work. Capitalism at its finest.

Again don't like it dont buy Rome II. If you end up buying it anyway you simply prove my point award them money even though you dislike the decisions they made and thus reinforce the point they don't need to change.
Again I see many on this forum complain about it yet they still buy the game and play it Honestly its fairly hilarious. Just like my trolling right now is immensely satisfying.

[wozzar]

My response is more direct at the OP and the likes of Humble Warrior who usually starts a similar thread with every Total War release.



This lowers overhead if you buy say a Physical copy of the game, Steam still gets a cut due to Steamworks, Retail Giants need their cut as well.

I think the Steam version cost you more than a non Steam version because the Publishers are paying for a premium which i believe could be up to 30% which would be factored into the cost of the game and of course this would be passed on to the gamer. Also take note Matrix games has very little problems with piracy.

Many people on this thread have said this is just a rant. However the same can be said for the pro Steam users who flood publishers forums who don't use Steam. One example of this is Matrix Games. There is a very strong pro Steam users group who demand that Matrix have some of the games on Steam. Matrix has stated that Steam does not fit into there business model and it would limit there profitability due to the high premium they would charge to be on Steam. The other problem for Matrix is they get a lot of customers because there games are DRM free. If they were to have Steam it would mean they would have to have a non Steam version which cost money they would lose customers who only purchased the because it was DRM free and not on Steam. Take note that Matrix games has very little piracy problems compared to the larger companies who have DRM and still have a very big piracy problem including Steam.

[King Philip II]

/stuff

Could you please pass me the latest CA P&L please? You obviously have access to this since you can talk with confidence about their current overheads.

Do you even know what it means in reality? or is this just a gulp from someone who has passed his degree exam in basic business 101?

[magpie]

Thank,s again MrChris,
My broadband speed is on average 4.4 Gb I hope the speed will increase soon due to line upgrade,s in my area?
Regarding my main concern,s and steam.
First and foremost I mod just a habit I gained over the years. Never could get a game without wanting to change something in it.
So I assume one will have to make up a special folder to keep a mod in. If Steam updates the original it could make your mod unplayable?

Also my other concern is how reliable is the off line mode.
In other word,s if your broadband goes down for any reason can you still play the game?

How often do you have to sign in with steam to keep your game working?
By that I mean can you play off line all the time? Stick the disk in the drive and just play.

regards,

magpie.

[CheesyFreak]

Thank,s again MrChris,
My broadband speed is on average 4.4 Gb I hope the speed will increase soon due to line upgrade,s in my area?
Regarding my main concern,s and steam.
First and foremost I mod just a habit I gained over the years. Never could get a game without wanting to change something in it.
So I assume one will have to make up a special folder to keep a mod in. If Steam updates the original it could make your mod unplayable?

Also my other concern is how reliable is the off line mode.
In other word,s if your broadband goes down for any reason can you still play the game?

How often do you have to sign in with steam to keep your game working?
By that I mean can you play off line all the time? Stick the disk in the drive and just play.

regards,

magpie.

i havent used offline mode, but as far as i am aware you have to just fully download the game on steam and then go offline mode and i dont think you have to upgrade it ever again if you want.

[MrChris]

Thank,s again MrChris,
My broadband speed is on average 4.4 Gb I hope the speed will increase soon due to line upgrade,s in my area?
Regarding my main concern,s and steam.
First and foremost I mod just a habit I gained over the years. Never could get a game without wanting to change something in it.
So I assume one will have to make up a special folder to keep a mod in. If Steam updates the original it could make your mod unplayable?

Also my other concern is how reliable is the off line mode.
In other word,s if your broadband goes down for any reason can you still play the game?

How often do you have to sign in with steam to keep your game working?
By that I mean can you play off line all the time? Stick the disk in the drive and just play.

regards,

magpie.

ha, you have it better than me then, although hopefully once I have Fibre Optic I'll be at about 24mb, otherwise would depend on what your broadband provider is giving you

hmm, well that depends, since a lot of games work differently

Some games on steam can be modded just fine, they have stuff like mod folders etc

If I remember correctly with Empire and Shogun (I played those with Darthmod) and I'm not 100% on this but the files just went into the data folder, which basically is in program files, steam, Empire/Shogun etc etc (I think you needed to unpack some game files first if you wanted to fiddle with stuff yourself?). Basically how a lot of Steam games work in terms of modding is, there will be a folder, such as data etc, whereby you put mod files, if you unpack a game for example and find a settings file and want to change stuff, I believe you put your version into that directory and Steam will use that instead (while the original remains).

But as I said, I'm not 100% sure, Darthmod ended up with a handy installer so I didn't have to manually move files in the end

Steam would technically update the game if there was a patch for it, but I don't think it would touch your mod file in such a case (it would just update the original that it was based on) that would probably mess up any mod, but with steam you can set how updating works, so if you are worried about an update coming out and breaking your mod, you can tell Steam not to update the game, you can always backup the game through steam etc anyway

If a file did somehow become damaged or something (oops I deleted half of it) you can just verify the game files, Steam basically scans the game directory and looks for anything broken and redownloads as appropriate

Only downside is that Steam doesn't really keep a version control system, you can see what updates have taken place through the news but can't sort of jump to a halfway point in the updates (but you could technically backup the entire game after a patch - then tell steam not to download updates I suppose). So if a game had 20 patches, but you wanted to play on patch 10, that would be more difficult to do.

In terms of offline mode, my experience is fairly limited, I haven't had to use it for a long time

https://support.steampowered.com/kb_...3160-agcb-2555

but I think as long as your account is setup ok then it should work fine, if my net ever drops out for example, Steam says it has lost connection, and I can start in offline mode instead

In terms of time, I have talked to people that have used offline mode for weeks, I think Steam can be a bit picky if you connect to any sort of network since it may try and check if there is a Steam update at all but the last time I used it I think it was for just over 5 days (net was down )

Its best not to try and think of Steam like that, once you have installed the game and it is registered to your account, it is yours forever, Steam won't remove it should you choose not to login etc, inactivity is not a reason to disable your account etc

And you won't need the disks to play, if the game is installed via steam on your PC you just run it through that without them. Keep them for installs but otherwise you don't need them, you technically don't need the disks at all once you have initially registered, since you can download the game in its entirety from Steam instead (since the game is now attached to your account) so handy if they get broken...

In terms of installing it again, it is an interesting thought but in all likelihood you would probably have to be connected to the internet at least once at some point, as I imagine Steam would want to update itself and the game (unless you tell it not to) when you run the installer. Basically its no longer really just the game, its the game+steam and in all honesty I have never tried running Steam like that, or offline for any period longer than I have mentioned before. I just haven't had a need really, my PC is always connected to the internet so I've never had to consider it...in terms of installing the game and then just going to offline mode and playing, I don't see why there would ever be a problem, you would just install the game with steam, login etc. After that whenver you want to play, just launch steam in offline mode and launch the game there, you won't need the disks to play in offline mode either

The funny thing about it is, currently none of my installed games are through Steam, all I have on my PC at the moment is Minecraft, Mass Effect 3 (Origin) and Battlefield 3 (Origin) but I still keep Steam running ha

[nameless]

I think there should be a ban on discussing the ethics of STEAM and such in a RTW2 forum. If anything it should have it's own STEAM thread and everything related to STEAM should be there. What makes RTW2 any special than any other game that's offered through STEAM anyways? I never understood it. Even Paradox which some people praise as some gods and angels distribute their games through STEAM as well or other digital distributers.

The fact that we have these threads pop up where the OPs complain about STEAM blah blah blah and then end up buying the damn game anyways kinda makes it a moot point. Especially as others have stated this isn't the first time or game we've had threads like these.

I decided to google and I can't find any games that aren't using STEAM or if they are they're in the extreme minority so again I don't see why the OP feels that he's important or why RTW2 should be singled out.

Thank,s again MrChris,
My broadband speed is on average 4.4 Gb I hope the speed will increase soon due to line upgrade,s in my area?
Regarding my main concern,s and steam.
First and foremost I mod just a habit I gained over the years. Never could get a game without wanting to change something in it.
So I assume one will have to make up a special folder to keep a mod in. If Steam updates the original it could make your mod unplayable?

Also my other concern is how reliable is the off line mode.
In other word,s if your broadband goes down for any reason can you still play the game?

How often do you have to sign in with steam to keep your game working?
By that I mean can you play off line all the time? Stick the disk in the drive and just play.

regards,

magpie.

Dude even with StarCraft 2 and Mass Effect 3 sometimes I'll lose internet connection and I can STILL continue playing. I can even continue playing offline as well if I want to. STEAM does NOT require 24/7 connection. I remember playing Mass Effect 3 for 2 months and had forgotten that I had it set on offline mode the whole time. So even Origin does that.

Therefore even if you're in a rural area you just need to connect once to establish the game and after that you're good to go. If you're on the internet then you definitely have access to this stuff.

Unless the game is like SimCity 5 that demands 24/7that's because of the publisher and not the distributor (Origin for example).

I should also point out for those talking about what happens if Valve goes bellyup well what happens if Microsoft goes belly up? Then everything goes down the drain.

Also you guys seriously don't think companies like EA, Sega, Blizzard, etc. would just sign up to distribute their games through Valve (For example) and not have a clause that demands that if Valve goes bankrupt for whatever reason they have to be given an option to continue as mandated? Say if Valve went bankrupted next year and STEAM disappeared SEGA wouldn't go off and find someone else or like Blizzard make their own? At this point no one would let STEAM go under.

[Remwr]

One little thing I'd like to point out. Just how does Steam really effect the quality of R2TW. How does it become the final straw that hypothetically "broke the camel's back." Steam is kind of like a console, and I would just like to point out that your choice of console usually does not usually detract from a game. The Wii not withstanding.

[King Philip II]

One little thing I'd like to point out. Just how does Steam really effect the quality of R2TW. How does it become the final straw that hypothetically "broke the camel's back." Steam is kind of like a console, and I would just like to point out that your choice of console usually does not usually detract from a game. The Wii not withstanding.

I have no idea what you are talking about. Aren't you the guy who thought it was a good idea to come in here and start by apologizing on our behalf btw?

[Greve Af Göteborg]

I have no idea what you are talking about. Aren't you the guy who thought it was a good idea to come in here and start by apologizing on our behalf btw?

Maybe you should come up with some proper counter arguments, instead of just commenting about how bad people are based on what opinion they have.

[Karnil Vark Khaitan]

I have no idea what you are talking about. Aren't you the guy who thought it was a good idea to come in here and start by apologizing on our behalf btw?

He asked why it was a deal breaker.

[Remwr]

You know what screw it, I might just go elsewhere for Total War news and info. I have had it with this. I write one thing and now everyone hates me for it. I'm done with this.

[removeduser_45762834756]

You know what screw it, I might just go elsewhere for Total War news and info. I have had it with this. I write one thing and now everyone hates me for it. I'm done with this.

Bye Bye

[King Philip II]

You know what screw it, I might just go elsewhere for Total War news and info. I have had it with this. I write one thing and now everyone hates me for it. I'm done with this.

don't let the door hit you on the way out