Disproving God(s)

[Ó Cathasaigh]

After carefully reading many a thread in this sub forum, I have come to the conclusion that the only reason some nameless posters post in here is an attempt to disprove God(s).

This is a total waste of time.
Many have tried to disprove God using Science, Logic, etc. None have prevailed. Yet they try, try again.

One wonders....why?

Is it the thrill of going up against the "ultimate" authority? Is it the thrill of getting a rise out of people? Is it done to simply pass the time?

Or could it be...as I imagine it is...that these individuals wish to alter the beleifs of others who choose to have a faith? In essence...conversion.

Ironicaly, these same members frequently complain about Christians, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, etc who try to preach to them. It is the ultimate hypocracey.

It has gotten so bad these days, you can't even post in a thread called "PRO-RELIGION thread" without getting lambasted for being a man of the faith.

This brings me to my next point. What do you have to gain?

You are obviously never going to disprove a God you obviously don't understand. It is "illogical" to try. Again, this leads me back to the "conversion" theory.

Perhaps it is time that you practice what you preach, and let us beleive what we want to beleive without you breathing down our necks all the time.

Wrong? Well, we could be. We don't beleive so, but there is always that possibility. But you know, regaurdless, do you realy think we care?

Could It be we are in Religion not out of fear of death and hell, but for reasons more pure? Such as bettering ourselves and being a part of something great? I don't expect you to enjoy getting called out for your hypocracey, nor do I expect you to agree with a word I've said. It's your nature to argue, I forgive you.

[mongoose]

This is a total waste of time.
Many have tried to disprove God using Science, Logic, etc. None have prevailed. Yet they try, try again.

People will always believe in God ands should be allowed to. How ever, that doesn't really change the fact that he doesn't exist.

Back to the subject:

The reason I have for debating this is to convince people that atheism isn't founded out of some childish fear of God or morality, but out of logic. I don't seriously expect nor really want to convert anyone.

[SoggyFrog]

God is a problem when he justifies for one what another believes is wrong.

[God]

After carefully reading many a thread in this sub forum, I have come to the conclusion that the only reason some nameless posters...

...post in here is an attempt to disprove God(s).

Well, yes. This is the religion forum, so if you don't expect atheist-theist debates then... what do you expect?

This is a total waste of time.
Many have tried to disprove God using Science, Logic, etc. None have prevailed. Yet they try, try again.

Many have tried to prove God using sacred books, witnesses etc. None have prevailed. Yet they try, try again.

Most debates are a waste of time really. In most debates nobody changes their mind. An argument about the existence of aliens is exactly the same.

One wonders....why?

Why not? It's fun. It makes me think about 'stuff'.

Is it the thrill of going up against the "ultimate" authority?

Hell yeah! Down with God!

Or could it be...as I imagine it is...that these individuals wish to alter the beleifs of others who choose to have a faith? In essence...conversion.

Ironicaly, these same members frequently complain about Christians, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, etc who try to preach to them. It is the ultimate hypocracey.

Except this is a debate forum. If a Christian, Jew, Muslim, Hindu, etc tries to convert me here, I have no problem with it. I'll gladly listen to their views.

I don't try to convert people to atheism out of TWC though. I only have a problem with people who teach their children that x religion is definately correct, or religion being taught in school as true (I do know that many religious people are also against this. I don't have a problem with these people. I am also equally opposed to people who bring their children up telling them atheism is right)

It has gotten so bad these days, you can't even post in a thread called "PRO-RELIGION thread" without getting lambasted for being a man of the faith.

*sighs

well guys I have returned...

I would like to first of all thank the archbishop of the list, IamthePope, for keeping track of the members list in my absence.(give him a round of applause)

The list on the first post has been updated and I am truly proud to see such prestigious members have decided to join!!!

in response to the SIN members request that we start debating in here, I say okay. I believe that we now have enough members and if anyone wants to post the opening argument, THE FLOOR IS YOURS!!!!!!!

This brings me to my next point. What do you have to gain?

Nothing much. What do you have to gain from any debate?

You are obviously never going to disprove a God you obviously don't understand. It is "illogical" to try. Again, this leads me back to the "conversion" theory.

And I'm never going to disprove novusordo's theories, but I'm damn well gonna try!

And no, I don't understand God. At all. He seems to have some very harsh mood swings though.

Perhaps it is time that you practice what you preach, and let us beleive what we want to beleive without you breathing down our necks all the time.

Again, we're arguing about religion, because it is a debate forum. Perhaps all the atheists should be banned completely from the ethos and we'll have some very pleasant religious threads with everyone posting "I agree"?

Wrong? Well, we could be. We don't beleive so, but there is always that possibility. But you know, regaurdless, do you realy think we care?

Maybe, maybe not. I care about my beliefs (or lack of) but I guess that's just me.

[chimera1715]

It seems to me that since the major religions were formed people, rulers, and the clergy have been shoving these religions down peoples throat with threats of both secular and spiritual punishments for those who did not fall in line. Freedom of religion is a modern concept and certainly does not represent the historical norm. I myself have no problem with people believing what they will as long as they keep it relativly to themselves.

And your post is more hypocritical than you think. Attempts to prove the existence of God have been going on for far longer and these have also been just as much as a failure. It is only very recently that athiest and other non belivers have become somewhat socially acceptable so I think that a few years of having to listen to these "unbearable" non-believers is a far cry from the 1000 years of having to listen to christian propaganda.

I can answer your question of why people try to disprove God. The first is that they probally dont believe in a god in the first place. Second, religion is obviously a creation of man so it figures that the gods created for each of these specific religions are also a creation of man. If you subscribe to this line of reasoning then disproving the existence of god seams like a natural step. Mabey, some people think that religion (especially organized) does not benefit the progress of humanity and would like to see its influence wane. Personally, as an example, I dont see much value in the current attitude that evangelically christians have towards science. I mean come on, Creationism Museums!

If you are in a religion for the reasons that you expressed at the bottom of your post then I have no problem, but just remember that people may never fully disprove God's existence, but it seems just as likely (if not more so) that religious people will never be able to prove God's existence either.

[LegionnaireX]

People will always believe in God ands should be allowed to. How ever, that doesn't really change the fact that he doesn't exist.

How do you know, exactly? The proper stance based purely on scientific reasoning would be that one does not know for a fact either way. Philosphy can lead you many ways, but as for your stating of opinion as fact you are just as dogmatic as you believe theists are.

[Lee1026]

How do you know, exactly? The proper stance based purely on scientific reasoning would be that one does not know for a fact either way. Philosphy can lead you many ways, but as for your stating of opinion as fact you are just as dogmatic as you believe theists are.

And when you don't know either way, you apply occam's razor. The results don't favor the religious folks.

[Sétanta]

Heh, god might not exist, but if he does I 1) Am a better person because of the morals religion brings into life and 2) Get to go to heaven.

Basically saying, if God doesn't exist than I was still a better person in life because of my beliefs and the Christian morals brought to me, and upon other people surrounding me. I have everything to gain in terms of eternal life and bliss, and nothing to lose. Whereas trying to prove Gods non-existance you have nothing to gain and everything to lose. Even if God doesn't exist than why the heck does it matter if somebody believes in him?

[LegionnaireX]

And when you don't know either way, you apply occam's razor. The results don't favor the religious folks.

Occams razor doesn't work in this situation, though. Occam's Razor is not infallible, and with our limited knowledge you can't know what is simple and what isn't. The questions that need to be answered are the following:

Is random occurence an adequate explanation for the origin of life, and more importantly can life arise by such means without an intelligent force.

Is random occurence an adequate explanation for the origin of all things, and can this even be possible.

If and only if these questions are positively answers can you apply occams razor to the situation in favor of an atheistic aproach.

[Lee1026]

because that someone is probably going to be trying to push silly policys down on me?

[Sétanta]

because that someone is probably going to be trying to push silly policys down on me?

The atheists are worse. Oh sure you got the nutjobs (like M.E. Muslims), but in general, we don't care if you want to go to hell. Why do you care

[Lee1026]

Tell that to the missionarys who regularly visit my house.

[Sétanta]

Tell that to the missionarys who regularly visit my house.

Again, nutjobs exist. That can't be helped. However, the majority of atheists like breathing down the necks of theists, whereas the majority of religious people don't give a damn.

[Ó Cathasaigh]

How ever, that doesn't really change the fact that he doesn't exist.

Thanks for proving my point. We have an example of the Athiest claiming facts that aren't true.

God is a problem when he justifies for one what another believes is wrong.

Such as Loving thy neighbor, not killing, not theiving. For shame God!

Well, yes. This is the religion forum, so if you don't expect atheist-theist debates then... what do you expect?

How about Theist vs Theist for a change?
I've never had an opportunity to discuss things with a Hindu, jew, Muslim, etc because the expected "god doesn't exist" line gets shoved in my face every single thread.

Many have tried to prove God using sacred books, witnesses etc. None have prevailed. Yet they try, try again.

I find, that at TWC at least, that it rarely happens. I don't realy care if anyone can prove God's existance. Why? Well, it wouldn't change my opinion on the matter one bit, nor should it for anyone other christian. We know we'll never scientificaly prove God exists, as it is impossible, so we don't try. It's faith based for a reason.

Again, we're arguing about religion, because it is a debate forum. Perhaps all the atheists should be banned completely from the ethos and we'll have some very pleasant religious threads with everyone posting "I agree"?

Have you considered that it's not all about the athiests?
it always comes down to the Thiest vs Athiest....when it started Jew vs Muslim or Hindu vs Christian. You guys always weasel your way in.

Attempts to prove the existence of God have been going on for far longer and these have also been just as much as a failure.

more often than not, on TWC, we thiests are forced onto the defensive, lest you just say "hey, they're not argueing....God doesn't exist!" so we are drawn in to counter that. The cycle goes on.

but it seems just as likely (if not more so) that religious people will never be able to prove God's existence either.

The goal has never been to prove God's existance

The results don't favor the religious folks.

PROBABILITY!

It's not probable to win the lottary, yet it happens.

because that someone is probably going to be trying to push silly policys down on me?

When was the last time you heard a Christian complain about an religious symbol of a different religioun and order it be removed? or visa versa

Which is a problem because total idiots can be elected just because of their religious agenda.

It is called Democracy. Not a fun game when your not in the majority?

[Katrina]

After carefully reading many a thread in this sub forum, I have come to the conclusion that the only reason some nameless posters post in here is an attempt to disprove God(s).

Well, because of the omnipotence of Gods, there is no way in the logic or words of mankind to disprove a God, because theoretically God can contradict all thoughts and logic produced by mankind, therefore, making any point displayed against a God, invalid.

This does not, however, disprove the existance of a God. There is simply no way mankind can do that as well. However, in the meantime, debating certain aspects amongst the validity of religions through the man-made history behind them, is possible, for those ideas were created and originated through society to begin with, therefore, can be contradicted through other aspects of society.

[God]

How about Theist vs Theist for a change?
I've never had an opportunity to discuss things with a Hindu, jew, Muslim, etc because the expected "god doesn't exist" line gets shoved in my face every single thread.

Have you considered that it's not all about the athiests?
it always comes down to the Thiest vs Athiest....when it started Jew vs Muslim or Hindu vs Christian. You guys always weasel your way in.

Why not open a thread asking that only Hindus, Jews, Muslims, etc take part. I'm sure us atheists won't interrupt if you ask us not to.

The problem is that most of the forum is made up of Christians and Agnostcs/Atheists so you don't really have anyone to take part in this...

When was the last time you heard a Christian complain about an religious symbol of a different religioun and order it be removed? or visa versa

Actually I believe a muslim asked for a christian symbol to be taken down from a school she was in or something similar. Personally, I have no problem with religious symbols and I don't care about 'In God we trust' being written on money or anything.

It is called Democracy. Not a fun game when your not in the majority?

Not particuarly.

[SoggyFrog]

God is a problem when he justifies for one what another believes is wrong.

Such as Loving thy neighbor, not killing, not theiving. For shame God!

It would be wrong if the existence of God were your sole rationale for such values. That obviously isn't the case for the examples you give. I will not contest your believing in a God so long as you never use that belief as a rationale for something I disagree with.

For example, the things Gigagaia mentioned.

[Talbaz]

When was the last time you heard a Christian complain about an religious symbol of a different religioun and order it be removed? or visa versa

um...dearborn,MI muslim call to worship christain got **** and try to froce the city conuil to stop them from playing it and there argument for this was and i qoute

:We don't wanna hear that stuff Alli(i havn't had to spell that in bit sorry if i spelled it wrong)doesn't exist the only true god is jesus christ r lord"

end qoute i fell on thefloor laughing , because of the fact that this women didn;t even know her own religon very well

[Lee1026]

Well, the majority of atheists does not breath down theist necks. We do it here, but then again, this is what we are supposed to do here.
Also, highly religious people like to elected highly religious people for office. Which is a problem because total idiots can be elected just because of their religious agenda.

[gigagaia]

I really have only one thing to point out about all of this:
Atheists attempt to prove the existence of no god for the very reason that Theists attempt to prove the existence of their god.

I suggest that if you seek an answer to your question that you seek to answer why you attempt to prove the existence of God unto yourself and others (ie. converting them)

Such as Loving thy neighbor, not killing, not theiving. For shame God!

Also, putting people who divorce to death/condeming them to hell and condmening homosexuals to eternal damnation among other things. Don't forget those Bits Hicksy. The bible isn't all pretty flowers, green pastures and happy days.