Character Traits in TWR2

[King Philip II]

Nice summary, but how does it have anything to do with what I said? You are listing out mods that fix certain issues or add more depth to characters, while we are talking about the base game. Rome II will have more character development and depth than any previous TW game judging by what we have heard. Characters will be anything but dumbed down.

Picking a trait you like for your general based on "experience points" is dumbing down the game. Character traits are based on personality traits, some of us are lazy, some are energetic, some are intelligent, some are dumb fracks .... welcome to the real world. My RTW2 game needs to be the same.

[King Philip II]

Nice summary, but how does it have anything to do with what I said? You are listing out mods that fix certain issues or add more depth to characters, while we are talking about the base game. Rome II will have more character development and depth than any previous TW game judging by what we have heard. Characters will be anything but dumbed down.

Picking a trait you like for your general based on "experience points" is dumbing down the game. Character traits are based on personality traits, some of us are lazy, some are energetic, some are intelligent, some are dumb fracks .... welcome to the real world. My RTW2 game needs to be the same.

[Keyser]

Traits still exist in Shogun 2... The matter is that they are very rare (both by the trigger and the total number), so your characters get only a few each time and they often are the same from a play session to another (mirror of amateratsu etc).

We can hope they add many different traits with many triggers in Rome 2 on top of the skill system (that i liked, the only matter was that indeed some paths make more sense given your playstyle, so most generals would end up being the same if you don't force yourself to roleplay or specialise them... The "strategist" path giving a bonus to campaign map movement was such an obvious choice compared to the "warrior" path who gave more defense value to the general and bodyguard...)

However it seems it's an aspect of the game who have not really been modded in Shogun 2, i don't know why, maybe it's more difficult than before, or hard coded.

[King Philip II]

Traits still exist in Shogun 2... The matter is that they are very rare (both by the trigger and the total number), so your characters get only a few each time and they often are the same from a play session to another (mirror of amateratsu etc).

We can hope they add many different traits with many triggers in Rome 2 on top of the skill system (that i liked, the only matter was that indeed some paths make more sense given your playstyle, so most generals would end up being the same if you don't force yourself to roleplay or specialise them... The "strategist" path giving a bonus to campaign map movement was such an obvious choice compared to the "warrior" path who gave more defense value to the general and bodyguard...)

However it seems it's an aspect of the game who have not really been modded in Shogun 2, i don't know why, maybe it's more difficult than before, or hard coded.

Good points. I don't know why either - let's ask:

Darth Vader, you lazy modder (seems to be the general consensus that we're all lazy), why haven't you modded the skills on the Warscape engine?

[Keyser]

But those you pick with xp aren't traits, they are skills...

Being lazy, having an eye for ladies, for food etc are still based on triggers like before in Shogun 2 and Jack said that both systems will still coexist in Rome II too.

The part you choose with XP are more career orientation/specialisation. Granted, they could also be triggered like traits (you command lot of cavalry you acquire the "cavalry commander" skill, cause it sure doesn't makes a lot of sense to acquire it without ever commanding cavalry), however there are still some traits that become available and that gives you command point when you are proficient with some units.

I still think there is room for both system, but they need to be more separated and more well thought (as well as being all interesting and not having a specialisation making much more sense than others).

[King Philip II]

But those you pick with xp aren't traits, they are skills...

Being lazy, having an eye for ladies, for food etc are still based on triggers like before in Shogun 2 and Jack said that both systems will still coexist in Rome II too.

The part you choose with XP are more career orientation/specialisation. Granted, they could also be triggered like traits (you command lot of cavalry you acquire the "cavalry commander" skill, cause it sure doesn't makes a lot of sense to acquire it without ever commanding cavalry), however there are still some traits that become available and that gives you command point when you are proficient with some units.

I still think there is room for both system, but they need to be more separated and more well thought (as well as being all interesting and not having a specialisation making much more sense than others).

If this is true, then I have misunderstood something. Do you have a link to Lusted's post on the subject?

[Keyser]

If this is true, then I have misunderstood something. Do you have a link to Lusted's post on the subject?

Generals still have skills and traits. New skills can be chosen as a General gains experience. Traits are given based on what a General does.

Of course, they should aim at making them having more sense by being really different though.
As i said acquiring the "skill" cavalry commander who grant a charge bonus without ever commanding cavalry because of XP as it happens in shogun 2 is strange, but you can still gain cavalry related traits if you win battle while commanding them like before. The matter in Shogun 2 (that i hope will be adressed in Rome 2) was that the traits were rare.

[DaVinci]

Originally Posted by Jack Lusted in his last post on the exclusive content thread
Generals still have skills and traits. New skills can be chosen as a General gains experience. Traits are given based on what a General does.

Of course, they should aim at making them having more sense by being really different though.
As i said acquiring the "skill" cavalry commander who grant a charge bonus without ever commanding cavalry because of XP as it happens in shogun 2 is strange, but you can still gain cavalry related traits if you win battle while commanding them like before. The matter in Shogun 2 (that i hope will be adressed in Rome 2) was that the traits were rare.

It is like Keyser says along what we know by now from S2 and the quote of Jack.

Summary as of yet:
- Generals get skills (along S2's feature by xp-progress, chosable) and traits (not chosable, but dependent on what the character is doing within the campaign).
- Agents get skills (along S2's feature by xp-progress, chosable) and traits (not chosable, but dependent on what the character is doing within the campaign).
- Armies (as additional feature) get a kind of trait aka special skill, in form of an emblem*, which gives certain bonusses (ie. an army is good in sieges); those skills will be influenced by the traits and skills of the leading general and ie. embedded agents.
*the emblem is permament, even if the army is destroyed, can be taken over by a following created army.

As for ancillaries (retinues), it is like with the character traits.

All in all, it is like the earlier engine until M2, but bit extended and differently organised (programmed). I expect that some things are open (as they are in S2) aka moddable.

I hope, that agents skills won't be that superpowerful as they are in S2 (ie. agents aren't that decisive aka anti-total-agent-war), it's also mentioned, if i recall it correctly, by Jack, that the agent skills will be softened in its power.
Instead, as was mentioned by Keyser, general's traits should be a bit more frequent and thus more decisive, also in S2 generals are easy targets of agents, i very much hope that won't be the case in R2.

EDIT

Two quasi facts still: (along S2 features at least)
- The traits and anc modding is not anymore that easy as it was until the M2 engine.
- The kind of skills, its tree's and ie. stepping though can be quite easily modified.

[King Philip II]

It is like Keyser says along what we know by now from S2 and the quote of Jack.

Summary as of yet:
- Generals get skills (along S2's feature by xp-progress, chosable) and traits (not chosable, but dependent on what the character is doing within the campaign).
- Agents get skills (along S2's feature by xp-progress, chosable) and traits (not chosable, but dependent on what the character is doing within the campaign).
- Armies (as additional feature) get a kind of trait aka special skill, in form of an emblem*, which gives certain bonusses (ie. an army is good in sieges); those skills will be influenced by the traits and skills of the leading general and ie. embedded agents.
*the emblem is permament, even if the army is destroyed, can be taken over by a following created army.

As for ancillaries (retinues), it is like with the character traits.

All in all, it is like the earlier engine until M2, but bit extended and differently organised (programmed). I expect that some things are open (as they are in S2) aka moddable.

I hope, that agents skills won't be that superpowerful as they are in S2 (ie. agents aren't that decisive aka anti-total-agent-war), it's also mentioned, if i recall it correctly, by Jack, that the agent skills will be softened in its power.
Instead, as was mentioned by Keyser, general's traits should be a bit more frequent and thus more decisive, also in S2 generals are easy targets of agents, i very much hope that won't be the case in R2.

Thanks DaVinci. Just the info I needed. Of course it comes from The First Triumvirate aka Fall of the Republic - Rise of the Empire (FRRE) mod team

one small comment: I believe the Army "traits" is what they call Traditions?

/KP

[Greve Af Göteborg]

It is true, the ones that you choose have always been referred to as "Skills". They are like training that your character gets with experience. Traits still exist, these are the ones that you gain by doing certain things, you can sort of influence what traits you get by focusing on doing certain tasks, but you can't pick them.

[King Philip II]

It is true, the ones that you choose have always been referred to as "Skills". They are like training that your character gets with experience. Traits still exist, these are the ones that you gain by doing certain things, you can sort of influence what traits you get by focusing on doing certain tasks, but you can't pick them.

well, then CA certainly does not understand the difference between a "skill" and a "trait".

As I said, linky please

[Kiliç Alì]

Link!

[Keyser]

Link!

Are you so lazy you can't click on the stickied thread with all Jack's exclusive info ?

[King Philip II]

Are you so lazy you can't click on the stickied thread with all Jack's exclusive info ?

It's not about being lazy mein Keyser. It's about the simple fact that OP asked about facts and not speculations i.e. if you have anything to say in this thread you better back it up with a link.

Don't be so fast the next time Keyser.

[DaVinci]

Yes, right, i as well read somewhere "Traditions", the emblem might be an icon.

Btw., i edited my post to get an idea of what might be moddable ... just bad is that traits and ancies are more complicate to modify (since ETW).

[Keyser]

I wasn't arguing about having to back my claims , i just found the insistance of Kiliç Alì for a link specifically, while i gave the source, wich was easily accessible on this forum, a bit exagerated.

Anyway, for those who don't own Shogun 2, here is a screen about the traits and skill system :

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Die-hard fighter is one of the skills available when you reach the third command star (it needs another skill (a rank 2 one) as a prerequisite)

The jade blocks with a kanji represent traits.

Heart Sick is a trait that triggered when the general lost his father (and i guess because of his high loyalty).
Pillager after looting a few settlements.
Polite wife when he married.

[King Philip II]

Here is what you said: "Are you so lazy you can't click on the stickied thread with all Jack's exclusive info"

Now, how about you go back to the RTW2 forum and do whatever you did before you got the crazy idea that you would be welcome here. Bye bye.

[Keyser]

Here is what you said: "Are you so lazy you can't click on the stickied thread with all Jack's exclusive info"

Wich wasn't aimed at you but at the second person who asked me for a link, after i gave my source.

Now, how about you step back a little and stop taking things on a condescending tone and confrontational mode ?

I was just trying to explain how the traits and skills works. If you don't like my interventions i am fine with it.