Long term CA fan but not planning to buy Rome 2? (No flaming, constructive criticism here)

[Obi Wan Asterix]

Do not flame, be constructive if you post below. Here is a form.

How many CA games do you own?

I have been on board with all of CA's games. I am a long standing fan and moder. My favourites were Rome, and the Shoguns.

Why are you hesitating or deciding not to buy Rome 2? Which items in particular are you not excited by? (List of points is better)

1. It seems to dive further into the very cinematic and fantasy setting that many people founded TWC for.
2. It will be un-modable, or very very hard to mode (continuing in the ETW, NTW, S2TW progression towards overload)
3. It continues the trend of bending history with fantasy and cinematics. Every bit of marketing released pushes me further and further away.
4. Flaming boulders at Teutonberg Forest? The 3 families diving Rome again? The Greek DLC?
5. Selling DLCs before the (expensive) game is even released. Is CA turning into EA (a rich company catering to the kid market?)
6. I care less for graphics and over-buff Rambo-looking centurions screaming things in English. I care more for historical simulation as a genre. This crosses the line.

What changes could convince you otherwise?

Modability allowing me and others to "fix" the game into EB-style quality. More historical depth, as opposed to graphics and cinematics. Different governmental systems, diversified economy, ability to customize and reform your army as you see fit, more detailed provinces with more forts and cities to take in battle. Slower, more difficult, less unrealistic game.

Please, do not flame here, be constructive.

[Eien]

I don't know OP, by the looks of what you have listed, you are asking to be flamed.

[Woodrow Skillson]

You have not even seen the game yet how do you know it needs to be slower, more difficult, and less unrealistic? You have seen alpha footage put together to showcase the engine and general appearance of battles.

1. This appears to be far, far more realistic then Rome 1, as it includes much more realistic and wel lresearched units very similar to the ones included in RTR.
2. It will be plenty moddable, just like Sohgun 2 is. Read the 12 page thread al labout modding in Rome 2 and Shogun 2.
3. PR is made to catch the attention of the casual fan who has never seen it before. Flaming boulders catch the eye far more then Spartans wearing the right sandals.
4. What is your point? What is bad about having royal families? Why is the Greek DLC bad when it is free with preorder?
5. No DLC has increased the cost of the game yet. You get 3 greek factions and the pontus faction free if you preorder.
6. This seems to be the most accurate game they have ever made, and if this is to fantastical for you, go play a paradox game.

[Seanakk]

I own copies of all CA's games (even the hideous Spartan: Total Warrior *shudders*). I'm not hesitating, in fact I have already pre-ordered it.

As for your hesitation, I would say wait until the demo is released for a bit of gameplay experience or wait for a trusted review to come out, try to keep an open mind on features that we only know very little about until you have first hand experience.

Oh and no DLC has been sold yet as such as the Greek city states are a pre-order incentive.

[Obi Wan Asterix]

Appreciate the feedback, I just want to generate the discussion.

I think flaming me will have no effect, I just don't feel anything convinces me otherwise.

I play CA games for different reasons, I am not trying to dissuade the mainstream CA gamer (who has perhaps changed in his profile since Shogun I), I am trying to make sure that a different point of view is expressed.

1. This appears to be far, far more realistic then Rome 1, as it includes much more realistic and wel lresearched units very similar to the ones included in RTR.
2. It will be plenty moddable, just like Sohgun 2 is. Read the 12 page thread al labout modding in Rome 2 and Shogun 2.
3. PR is made to catch the attention of the casual fan who has never seen it before. Flaming boulders catch the eye far more then Spartans wearing the right sandals.
4. What is your point? What is bad about having royal families? Why is the Greek DLC bad when it is free with preorder?
5. No DLC has increased the cost of the game yet. You get 3 greek factions and the pontus faction free if you preorder.
6. This seems to be the most accurate game they have ever made, and if this is to fantastical for you, go play a paradox game.

1. No, it appears to be a rehash of historical details from Rome I. Yes, some of the animations are actual more accurate (inspired by EB?) like Companion cavalry, hoplite overhand spears etc. I am not talking about animatioins though.
2. Plenty moddable? Again you like graphics, and changing the colour because models and animations will not find the full-time modders required. The size of the job will be unrealistic and massive.
3. I don't care what sandals Spartans wear. I care that they have armour 200 years out of date, that they are still there despite having been wiped off the face of the earth as a power by the Successors of Alexander and so many other similiar elements. I am just not seeing what I am looking forward to, please respect my point of view.
4. Missed the royal family bit in between the flaming boulders.
5. Ahhh but it will. Game in Europe is 20% more expensive that the normal title.
6. Accurate? Ever made? Paradox doesnt do a good job, but you don't seem to like or know much about strategy games so you would find that to be the end of your perspective on the topic

[Woodrow Skillson]

Appreciate the feedback, I just want to generate the discussion.
1. No, it appears to be a rehash of historical details from Rome I. Yes, some of the animations are actual more accurate (inspired by EB?) like Companion cavalry, hoplite overhand spears etc. I am not talking about animatioins though.
2. Plenty moddable? Again you like graphics, and changing the colour because models and animations will not find the full-time modders required. The size of the job will be unrealistic and massive.
3. I don't care what sandals Spartans wear. I care that they have armour 200 years out of date, that they are still there despite having been wiped off the face of the earth as a power by the Successors of Alexander and so many other similiar elements. I am just not seeing what I am looking forward to, please respect my point of view.
4. Missed the royal family bit in between the flaming boulders.
5. Ahhh but it will. Game in Europe is 20% more expensive that the normal title.
6. Accurate? Ever made? Paradox doesnt do a good job, but you don't seem to like or know much about strategy games so you would find that to be the end of your perspective on the topic

1. How do you know this? You have seen screenshots that show nothing but standard barbarian troops, standard legions, standard phalangites, 1 unit of elite spartans that is historically plausible, and standard cavalry. There is literally no evidence of fantasy units at all.
2. According to people who mod the game total conversions are possible if harder then before. Someone mocked up a map of britain in the shogun 2 mod tools to prove that point just for the thread.
3. Sparta was around for a long time after 275BC.
5. First I have heard of this, sucks if it is true.
6. Ad hominem for no reason? Awesome work buddy! Clearly someone who does not share your opinion is a simpleton who cannot match your sheer prowess at being smug about vidya gamez.

[King_Porus]

1. No, it appears to be a rehash of historical details from Rome I. Yes, some of the animations are actual more accurate (inspired by EB?) like Companion cavalry, hoplite overhand spears etc. I am not talking about animatioins though.
2. Plenty moddable? Again you like graphics, and changing the colour because models and animations will not find the full-time modders required. The size of the job will be unrealistic and massive.
3. I don't care what sandals Spartans wear. I care that they have armour 200 years out of date, that they are still there despite having been wiped off the face of the earth as a power by the Successors of Alexander and so many other similiar elements. I am just not seeing what I am looking forward to, please respect my point of view.
4. Missed the royal family bit in between the flaming boulders.
5. Ahhh but it will. Game in Europe is 20% more expensive that the normal title.
6. Accurate? Ever made? Paradox doesnt do a good job, but you don't seem to like or know much about strategy games so you would find that to be the end of your perspective on the topic

1. Are you joking? Rome 1 had Egyptians that were from a COMPLETELY different time period, not to mention screaming women and head hurlers and stuff. Yes, some of them will be returning, but it seems like only the plausible ones will return (war dogs and flaming pigs).
2. The engine is holding back modability, so the SDK pack is probably the best they can do. I agree though, better modability would be nice in a perfect world.
3. I respect your point of view, for the most part CA has explained their historical inaccuracies (officers wore a certain type of old-school helmet) but I agree with you that there are some inaccurate things that were put in to appeal to "casual gamers". Doesn't bother me too much, however, and they can be re-skinned.
4. Still don't really understand the problem with the three royal families, please elaborate.
5. That fact that your area has higher prices isn't the fault of CA, if you preorder, the extra factions come at no extra cost to what you would have already payed.
6. It is the most accurate vanilla Total War game is what he is trying to say.

not trying to flame you or sound rude BTW.

[Ryou]

Appreciate the feedback, I just want to generate the discussion.

I think flaming me will have no effect, I just don't feel anything convinces me otherwise.

I play CA games for different reasons, I am not trying to dissuade the mainstream CA gamer (who has perhaps changed in his profile since Shogun I), I am trying to make sure that a different point of view is expressed.



1. No, it appears to be a rehash of historical details from Rome I. Yes, some of the animations are actual more accurate (inspired by EB?) like Companion cavalry, hoplite overhand spears etc. I am not talking about animatioins though.
2. Plenty moddable? Again you like graphics, and changing the colour because models and animations will not find the full-time modders required. The size of the job will be unrealistic and massive.
3. I don't care what sandals Spartans wear. I care that they have armour 200 years out of date, that they are still there despite having been wiped off the face of the earth as a power by the Successors of Alexander and so many other similiar elements. I am just not seeing what I am looking forward to, please respect my point of view.
4. Missed the royal family bit in between the flaming boulders.
5. Ahhh but it will. Game in Europe is 20% more expensive that the normal title.
6. Accurate? Ever made? Paradox doesnt do a good job, but you don't seem to like or know much about strategy games so you would find that to be the end of your perspective on the topic

sir, you have no idea what you are talking about.
1, if you know anything about Rome TW, (which you profess is one of your favorite games) you would know the franticness and low budgetness of the release. CA really didn't have a lot of time or money and did they best they can with the game. R2 actually has a staff of VERY dedicated historians so, the game will be MUCH MUCH MUCH more accurate than RTW.
2, Are you really not going to buy the game because its not moddable? Having the ability to mod at all is a privilage, not a guarentee. Why don't you act like it?
3, CA is a corporation. They have a fiduciary duty to their finicial backers. They make the most money they can, period. If you can't understand basic economics, i'm sorry for you. (Would you be happy if they made the game the romans speak latin, the germanics speak a long extinct dialect, and all the greek faction speaking ancient Greek?)
4, You mentioned RTW was your favorite TW game. Perhaps you forgot the three families was EVERYTHING in RTW. Ironic, huh?
5,As mentioned b4, all DLC mentioned thus far are free. The game is expensive but seeing how much effort they've put and are putting into the game i think its fair.
6, This one gave me the chuckles. As i've said before R2 IS the most historically accurate game to date. If you like RTW so much, R2 should make you A LOT happier, but somehow you're not.

[Emperor Domitianus]

I own all TW games since the first Shogun.
I will buy for sure RTW2 and even preorder it.
Nothing will change my mind as I am convinced 100% this game will keep me on my chair for a very long time.

[Prof]

Do not flame, be constructive if you post below. Here is a form.

How many CA games do you own?

All of them

I have been on board with all of CA's games. I am a long standing fan and moder. My favourites were Rome, and the Shoguns.

Same here.

Why are you hesitating or deciding not to buy Rome 2? Which items in particular are you not excited by? (List of points is better)

1. It seems to dive further into the very cinematic and fantasy setting that many people founded TWC for.

1. I don't think, this is neccessarily a bad thing. (just my opinion)
   
   

2. It will be un-modable, or very very hard to mode (continuing in the ETW, NTW, S2TW progression towards overload)

[torongill]

1. I own RTW, M2TW with Kingdoms and Napoleon with Iberia
2. My favourite is RTW because of the setting and for the mods; however for gameplay, even though it's more boring in the field - NTW

1. I don't know what do you consider fantasy and cinematics as opposed to "real gameplay". Most of the stuff I've seen looks quite realistic. If you point out examples I will address them.
2. I wonder what your definition of modable is, because I have found NTW to be more mod-friendly than RTW. True, huge overhauls will not be possible without a lot of hard work, but as a matter of fact the level of detail we have seen so far in Rome 2 shows that the need for overhaul mods like EB will be diminished. That's especually true for modification of unit behaviour.
3. The burning balls of twine and straw were inspired by the movies Troy and Centurion; I wouldn't call them very realistic, but they're imprinted in the general mind. And as a matter of fact they are more realistic-looking than say dropping an entire forest on the heads of an army. Like they say, "reality is unrealistic". As for the three families, don't draw lines with the original RTW. If you have read the mechanics revealed so far, this political division is far more realistic than you think. The Greek States DLC is a nice compromise between historical reality(Aetolian and Achaen leagues) and marketing appeal. Greek fans should rejoice instead of grumbling about it. At least they can choose between three Greek states(four if you count Makedonia), unlike Iberian, Dacian, Thracian and steppe tribe fans, who so far get no playable factions, or the Gallic and Germanic fans, who get a single one.
4. Nobody is selling DLC pre-release. As a matter of fact it's the other way round - if you preorder you get DLC for free.
5. The game has the same price of any new major release. However with preorder a lot of retailers offer it with a significant discount. An example - 55 € is the listed retail price. Ordering from Zavvi.com or amazon.co.uk lowers that price to around 35-37 € and there's an option of free of charge delivery at least with Zavvi.com.

[Karnil Vark Khaitan]

It's pretty biased. Were is: I haven't preordered yet because I what to know more about the game.

[Boicote]

IMO, CA should implement a "realistic mode" in the game. People who want to have a realistic experience should turn on this option (no fantasy units; factions controlling the historical regions, etc). People who don't care about historical accuracy should turn off this option to have fantasy units, units moving very fast, etc. This way, everybody would be pleased .
CA already did something similar in Shogun 2 (they gave us realistic mode that allows us to restrict the camera view). They just need to expand this idea.

[theDaedricPrince]

Why is everyone doubting the modding tools so much? xD CA will be announcing something in the modding summit, so I'm pretty sure there will be a better and efficient way to mod the game in a deep scale.

[Holger Danske]

Why is everyone doubting the modding tools so much? xD CA will be announcing something in the modding summit, so I'm pretty sure there will be a better and efficient way to mod the game in a deep scale.

Ever since Empire there has been a genuine distrust at anything CA say regarding modding, and I seriously doubt RTW2 will recover that trust because frankly CA doesn't care since they know the majority of those who purchase their games will never learn about places such as TWC.


I had some enjoyment with ETW (when dathmod saved it) and was dissapointed over my purchase of NTW, so I didn't go for Shogun 2.
I don't expect buying this one either, but the setting is the one I find most compelling of all TW games and if they actually make a solid game which is also pre-empire moddable (as in custom strategy maps, entirely new factions, etc.), then I'll buy it. But I doubt it and I certainly wont pre-order.

The only game I've ever pre-ordered was Arma 3 because participation in the alpha granted full access to the release at half the price!

Agreed. I think the two sides boil down to this:

On one side are the market fundies, who think that the company enjoys broad entitlements, to cut-and-slice content, restrict mods, sell any kind of DLC day one, microtransactions, etc. Our choice is to make a buy/don't buy decision or series of buy/don't buy decisions and yes or no is the limit of our entitlement.

On the other side are the consumer oriented hippies like me, who believe that we are entitled to the developer's best effort at release and that means the fully enjoyable game. Our full enjoyment means not restricting content to certain classes of purchasers (pre-orders versus day one purchasers, etc.) If the developer chosses adds content after release then of course we are not entitled to that content if it is not free.

Exactly!

Expansion packs are totally legit (and fair) forms of earning extra cash by actually offering NEW contents. DLC (especially Day One) is just a doucebag way of blackmailing more money out of the consumer for a product they've already bought. Sadly, the casual gamer is perfectly okay with gaming companies screwing them all over the place, but if any other business tried anything remotely similar, they would go ballistic. It's almost like a prevailing neural disorder...

[Eien]

As for the Rome having 3 families argument, have you played RoTS, OP? it works along the lines of that, a single faction, but with different families.

[-Concrete-]

If you look at what was possible in modding for Empire, Napoleon and Shogun 2 (even pre kit), modders can make the game more 'realistic' for the hardcore players. That's what almost all the mods were aimed at. If you think Rome II will have no modding at all you will need to show a source, not just the stock "CA=EA" insult.

[Aleron]

1. It seems to dive further into the very cinematic and fantasy setting that many people founded TWC for.
2. It will be un-modable, or very very hard to mode (continuing in the ETW, NTW, S2TW progression towards overload)
3. It continues the trend of bending history with fantasy and cinematics. Every bit of marketing released pushes me further and further away.
4. Flaming boulders at Teutonberg Forest? The 3 families diving Rome again? The Greek DLC?
5. Selling DLCs before the (expensive) game is even released. Is CA turning into EA (a rich company catering to the kid market?)
6. I care less for graphics and over-buff Rambo-looking centurions screaming things in English. I care more for historical simulation as a genre. This crosses the line.

1. No, it doesn not, you have absolutely no proof of that whatsoever.
2. Yeah, because, guess what, games from E:TW and onwards are built using a much more complex system. And it is still possible to mod the **** out of them, as shown by people creating new models and maps for S2:TW.
3. No, it doesn't. It's the most accurate game (history wise) in TW history ever. Besides, they have stated that they are going for 'historical plausability'. Don't like it - don't buy it, noone cares that you don't like Sparta being on the map, because, guess what, it's interesting to play as Sparta for a lot of people and the fact that they were not as powerful in real life at that time as they are in the game doesn't really matter, since the game is about creating your own history.
4. Flaming boulders were actually used in many ancient battles. It's that you personally don't like it. Too bad, I guess. About the families, you should probably google how they work before typing this kind of ****? They've stated that you select a family that gives you different bonuses, you still control the whole territory of the country. And what don't you like about Greek DLC? It's a great DLC, you get 3 countries for free if you preorder. Why only if you preorder, you might say. Well, take a wild guess. Perhaps, it is because it costs a hell lot of money to produce something like that and it wasn't initially planned to be a part of the 'main game'? You get your main game (8 factions) and a free nation (which cost them a lot of money to develop too, by the way). And now you're gettng 3 extra nations if you preorder. And you're still whining. That's kinda sad.
5. No, they aren't. Perhaps you should get out of your bubble world and take a look into the real world where developing any content costs a lot of money. And, if that content wasn't planned for the main game (9 factions), it is only logical to make it a DLC.
6. Too bad for you, noone cares, though, as the number of preorders for R2:TW is 6 times that amount of S2:TW.

[♔KillZoneGB♔]

I`m planning to buy rome2, but only when it goes on sale, £44 is a tad to pricey for my tastes, seeing I`m running around in a S-class Jaguar

[Little Legionaire]

I share the concerns of OP but they look like a bit rushed conclusions on major aspects of the game.

We still do not know more on modding, how the families will work, bending the historic story base by cinematics and et cetera. We still much time and especially much more info before sayin "i'm not buying it". But however it's totally the OP' decision and i respect that.

I believe CA doing pretty good so far and working hard on making a great game. We still need to understand that they're gonna make some decisions to larger audience by such as Sparta faction and such. But its not a devastating element to ruin all. And its impossible to make a game and please all the audience of veterans, new comers and casuals.

After the ETW, CA evolved and refined the TW experience by taking bold decisions and augmented the experience with techtrees, general perks and many more. There are more reasons to buy this game and trust what they do instead ignoring it. Just my thoughts...