I thought this was a democracy

**ishootfriendlies** · May 20, 2013, 10:15 PM

Take a look at this. This was the voting result for a papal election. Notice anything funny?

**Maklodes** · May 20, 2013, 10:50 PM

Hmmm... I have to say that is genuinely strange. I know that sometimes if you have a bunch of cardinals, and vote for your own præferatus, but no one else joins you, you can lose even if your cardinals give you the most votes, but I can't see why 6 French/HRE votes should outweigh 7 English/Polish votes.

Not that the Catholic Church is a democracy, or would ever claim to be. (at least in the Medieval age through to the present age. In the distant future maybe?) They still should count votes fairly, though.

**Delvecchio1975** · May 21, 2013, 05:10 AM

Is Boguslaw still alive?

**ishootfriendlies** · May 21, 2013, 06:24 AM

Originally Posted by Delvecchio1975

Is Boguslaw still alive?

Yep. He was my main man, too. I was the English, and the Poles were the only ones who were not my enemies. I was at war with the French and the HRE, so this result was a real disappointment.

**Dr. Conquest** · May 21, 2013, 10:19 AM

lol, Maybe CA should have added an option to bribe the ballot counters, because that's what it looks like the AI did!

**Vissewalde rex de Gerzika** · May 21, 2013, 11:18 AM

Originally Posted by Dr. Conquest

lol, Maybe CA should have added an option to bribe the ballot counters, because that's what it looks like the AI did!

There is an option to buy a vote from a faction when you enter the diplomacy screen when you are in the voting screen.

**Dr. Conquest** · May 21, 2013, 11:50 AM

Originally Posted by Baltic Warrior

There is an option to buy a vote from a faction when you enter the diplomacy screen when you are in the voting screen.

Yes, which is why I said 'ballot counters' and not 'AI factions'; the people who do the adding up. Anyway, the point (rather, joke) is moot. The result has already been explained. (Corruption within the Catholic church as the result of a politically based voting system, obviously). Long live Medieval II!

**Aeratus** · May 21, 2013, 10:27 AM

The reason the HRE cardinal won the election is because the votes were tied and he won the tiebreaker.

First, votes are only counted by faction and not by cardinal. For example, 10 cardinals belonging to a single faction will be outvoted by 2 cardinals of different factions. This means that dominating the college of cardinals cannot be done simply by the raw number of cardinals you have.

So in the screenshot, the HRE cardinal received 2 votes (i.e., votes of 2 factions) and the Polish cardinal also received 2 votes.

This puts the voting at a tie. Then, it goes to tiebreakers, which are determined based on the cardinal's piety and hidden stats (including purity and eligibility). I'm not sure what the exact tiebreaker process is, but I suspect that it goes in the order of the three stats (piety first, one of purity/eligibility, then the remaining one).

**ishootfriendlies** · May 21, 2013, 01:16 PM

Originally Posted by Aeratus

The reason the HRE cardinal won the election is because the votes were tied and he won the tiebreaker.

First, votes are only counted by faction and not by cardinal.

Interesting info, thank you. I always thought it was total votes.

**Kaiser Nonsense** · May 21, 2013, 11:17 AM

Lol, who ever said that any election is a democracy? The Papal States is a elective monarchy, and so is the Vatican city nowadays. And the answer to your question is exactly what Aeratus said.

And by St Expeditus, what have you done, have you actually taken a photograph out of your screen!?!

**eXistenZ** · May 21, 2013, 12:49 PM

no this isnt a democracy

THIS IS SPARTA

**Aeratus** · May 21, 2013, 02:08 PM

Yeah it's interesting that they made it like that. Even though the papacy is not a democracy, it doesn't quite make sense to have faction-based voting.

I suppose it was done for game balance, to prevent players from trivializing the papacy system by simply spamming priests.

**Dr. Conquest** · May 22, 2013, 11:29 AM

Originally Posted by Aeratus

Yeah it's interesting that they made it like that. Even though the papacy is not a democracy, it doesn't quite make sense to have faction-based voting.

I suppose it was done for game balance, to prevent players from trivializing the papacy system by simply spamming priests.

So, instead, we trivialise the papal system by wiping out all other Catholic factions and by taking Rome itself.

**Kataphractos** · May 22, 2013, 11:06 AM

This means that dominating the college of cardinals cannot be done simply by the raw number of cardinals you have.

This is why you recruit a batch of priests from all of your regions every 15-20 turns. Within 40-50 turns, you will never lose another papal election (unless you're excommunicated, of course).