Will there be ladders in the game?

[Modestus]

Will there be ladders in the game?

OK the question may seem a little weird but we have seen no ladders since Warscape why?

And if you don’t have ladders you really have only a few other methods to take a wall, a siege engine , climbing with a rope or god-forbid your trusty axe, I presume most people don’t want a return of the wall climbing so your left with a siege engine.

Its going to look slightly odd pushing your siege engine up to a palisade on top of a hill fort, the jump off would probably kill you so for smaller settlements with smaller walls of stone or wood how do you take them? Obviously you can knock them down but I am interesting in actually taking the wall not putting a big hole in it.

And something to ponder if there are no ladders and no wall climbing and a siege engine is too big then the only way to take a small settlement is to knock down the wall which makes you wonder what is the point of having troops on a wall in the first place.

So could CA clarify the situation with ladders.

[Nicolaos]

wall climbing absolutely killed siege battles for me.

I only play them because you can't trust auto resolve in sieges...

[Anna_Gein]

wall climbing absolutely killed siege battles for me.

Same here. I was completely astonished by the evolution of siege battle from M2TW to ETW. What happened ?

I don't really remember, but wasn't there some kind of epic wall in either Rome or Med2 which was so big that you couldn't use ladders but were forced to build siege towers? If this is the case, then i think that Carthages' walls are just too epic to be climbed by ladders. I'm pretty sure we'll see some ladders. Would be weird to climb a tiny wooden wall with a siege tower.

Yes it was the case. But I don't think Cartage walls we saw were "massive walls" or "epic walls".
They looked like the regular stone walls from RTW.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[Greve Af Göteborg]

I inspected the carthage panorama screenshot but I could not find any ladders (maybe in in the right side of the screenshot, but the angle is bad). I sure hope that they bring back ladders, rams, sappers and the siege towers, I hated the wall climbing so I hope that has been removed.

[simonsimons]

I think there will be ladders for the smaller settlements. There has to be, surely?

[GrudgeNL]

Considering the siege towers from the carthage gameplay footage have an actual working ladder system/mechanic, I don't see any reason for CA not to implement siege ladders seperately.

Ofcourse it's just speculation, but I highly doubt CA would ignore well known siege equipment, when the basic ladder function already works in Rome II's siege towers.

[torongill]

Will there be ladders in the game?

OK the question may seem a little weird but we have seen no ladders since Warscape why?

And if you don’t have ladders you really have only a few other methods to take a wall, a siege engine , climbing with a rope or god-forbid your trusty axe, I presume most people don’t want a return of the wall climbing so your left with a siege engine.

Its going to look slightly odd pushing your siege engine up to a palisade on top of a hill fort, the jump off would probably kill you so for smaller settlements with smaller walls of stone or wood how do you take them? Obviously you can knock them down but I am interesting in actually taking the wall not putting a big hole in it.

And something to ponder if there are no ladders and if no wall climbing and if a siege engine is too big then the only way to take a small settlement is to knock down the wall which makes you wonder what is the point of having troops on a wall in the first place.

So could CA clarify the situation with ladders.

Too many ifs make for iffy argument.

That's not to say I won't be disgusted at a lack of siege ladders. It would be ridiculous.

[Augustus Scipius]

We have already seen siege towers, so I would not worry about ladders that are even simpler to implement. Basically all they need to do is to get rid of the hull of the siege tower models and elongate the ladders inside. The Greek Culture pack info also states that there will be battering rams in the game. I see this as a sign that CA will return to its roots when it comes to siege battles.

[Modestus]

We have already seen siege towers, so I would not worry about ladders that are even simpler to implement. Basically all they need to do is to get rid of the hull of the siege tower models and elongate the ladders inside. The Greek Culture pack info also states that there will be battering rams in the game. I see this as a sign that CA will return to its roots when it comes to siege battles.

Had this discussion with torongill before and while a ladder is a simple model it must be carried by a unit and strange though it may seem I think warscape cant do that, models can push a ram climb into a siege engine but they cant carry a ladder?

And of course you cant have a ladder suddenly appearing like ropes from a soldiers back pocket you need to see it coming.

[GrudgeNL]

Had this discussion with torongill before and while a ladder is a simple model it must be carried by a unit and strange though it may seem I think warscape cant do that, models can push a ram climb into a siege engine but they cant carry a ladder?

And of course you cant have a ladder suddenly appearing like ropes from a soldiers back pocket you need to see it coming.

Warscape can easily manage ladder animations. It's.. just an animation really. I have never seen a game engine say: "Animation rejected. Animation contains traces of ladder carrying soldiers."

And on top of that, the actual mechanics have always been there. In previous TW games built on the warscape engine, soldiers were capable to climb the walls, ships were capable to board each other. The only difference between these scenario's and the ladder climbing scenario, are the difference in appropriate animations.

[HusKatten]

I don't really remember, but wasn't there some kind of epic wall in either Rome or Med2 which was so big that you couldn't use ladders but were forced to build siege towers? If this is the case, then i think that Carthages' walls are just too epic to be climbed by ladders. I'm pretty sure we'll see some ladders. Would be weird to climb a tiny wooden wall with a siege tower.

[Mortarion]

Im 100% sure there will be ladders, it was in Rome 1 and medieval 2. In Shogun 2, they didn't need ladders. Because the walls where not that high, and where skewed. So it was pretty easy to crawl.

[magpie]

I sure as hell hope so, God damn rope climber,s are ridiculous.
What next an Indian fakir playing a flute while the rope unwinds from a basket.

[oOIYvYIOo]

Even if i think it ruins the pleasure of playing a game based in military,culture history , i think it will be there logically.

[Modestus]

Even if i think it ruins the pleasure of playing a game based in military,culture history , i think it will be there logically.

Logically it has nothing to do with history but with the game engine.

[oOIYvYIOo]

Logically it has nothing to do with history but with the game engine.

thats where your wrong ,in my opinion .
TW is TW due is realism . In campaign map and logically on battlefield.

[Sun Jetzu]

thats where your wrong ,in my opinion .
TW is TW due is realism . In campaign map and logically on battlefield.

exactly

[Lord Dakier]

Ladders couldn't be used in the largest of walls if I remember rightly. Wall climbing will not be in, although Spartacus managed climbing downwards on a mountain.

[torongill]

Yes, it's very strange how you think a ladder cannot be carried but a cannon can be pushed by hand or turned by hand, or a siege ram can be pushed and used.

So what you're saying is that the engine is complex enough to build a model that allows units to push it around, climb into it, be carried and protected by it; use a number of simultaneous and sequential animations by different soldier models like for example "push a the cannon, load it, ram it, prime it, ignite it(Everybody cover their ears and hold fast!) but it's not capable of locking say eight men around a piece of equipment and have them move forward, while the rest follow, even though we've had cases of six soldier models climb aboard another model(six horse gun carriage), tow the cannon, get off the horses(in sync) and move to their positions?

Your main argument was that there is vertical movement and the engine cannot model it. Interesting that you should mention that when the drawbridge of the siege tower has to be moved down, or the boarding planks that are used in boarding ships in NTW.

Of course, the question remains, if CA has all that capability, why did they use rope climbing and rock climbing? My guess is eye shiny.

In RTW the only moment when ladders could be used was when there were stone walls. With Large Stone Walls the only way was with siege towers. With Epic Stone Walls the only way was with armored siege towers.

[Modestus]

Yes, it's very strange how you think a ladder cannot be carried but a cannon can be pushed by hand or turned by hand, or a siege ram can be pushed and used.

So what you're saying is that the engine is complex enough to build a model that allows units to push it around, climb into it, be carried and protected by it; use a number of simultaneous and sequential animations by different soldier models like for example "push a the cannon, load it, ram it, prime it, ignite it(Everybody cover their ears and hold fast!) but it's not capable of locking say eight men around a piece of equipment and have them move forward, while the rest follow, even though we've had cases of six soldier models climb aboard another model(six horse gun carriage), tow the cannon, get off the horses(in sync) and move to their positions?

Your main argument was that there is vertical movement and the engine cannot model it. Interesting that you should mention that when the drawbridge of the siege tower has to be moved down, or the boarding planks that are used in boarding ships in NTW.

Of course, the question remains, if CA has all that capability, why did they use rope climbing and rock climbing? My guess is eye shiny.

In RTW the only moment when ladders could be used was when there were stone walls. With Large Stone Walls the only way was with siege towers. With Epic Stone Walls the only way was with armored siege towers.

Once again you did not understand , the model of a ladder the whole of the ladder needs to go from the horizontal to the vertical, a siege tower drops a ramp the animation is contained within the model.

My main point however was that a unit needs to carry a ladder that means not only will there be an animation of a unit carrying a ladder horizontally there also needs to be an animation of a ladder being lifted vertically, you also need a unit to be able to pick a ladder up and put one down so any unit except cavalry should be able to attach itself to a ladder.

Did you see the Testudo carrying a ladder will be like brain surgery.


Anyhow its a simple question are there ladders in the game?