Preview VII: The Kushan Empire

[tamerlane29]

same

[Rampante-Cid]

Awesome work guys!

+REP

Question:The kushans and sassanids can recruit elephants?

[Joar]

Question:The kushans and sassanids can recruit elephants?

Yes, in certain areas.

[Reno Melitensis]

An other stunning preview. Well done

Cheers

[Emperor Caesar]

Very nice. Loving the mod's progress.

[Flavius Vegetius Renatus]

Great job Joar! Its good to see heavier elements implemented into Kushan army. They were always my least favorite to play in other mods lacking heavy infantry or cavalry.

I have a question that is slightly off topic. You will be using "imitation legionairies" for nations of bosphorus and armenia. Will these units be also available for recruitment for any roman faction and if yes what will be the equivalent?

[julianus heraclius]

I have a question that is slightly off topic. You will be using "imitation legionairies" for nations of bosphorus and armenia. Will these units be also available for recruitment for any roman faction and if yes what will be the equivalent?

Yes, if you look at both the Armenian and Bosphorus previews, each has a unit of imitation legionnaires. Only the Armenian troops will be recruitable as mercenaries due to limits in the descr+model_battle.txt file.

[Edelfred]

Weren't they or their rulers Europeans , why to make them look like the Southern Dravidians ?
They called themselves Aryans and were defeated only in 5th AC by the Southern Indians .
Saka are blue-eyed ,yellow-haired Scythians not Tamils,who are not even Indo-Iranic .
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...SakaYueZhi.jpg

[Joar]

Weren't they or their rulers Europeans , why to make them look like the Southern Dravidians ?

Well, they appear to have been Indo-European, but that's hardly the same as "being European". And I think you're a bit unfair when you say we've made them look "southern Dravidian". The source material I've used pretty much describes them as a mix between Steppe cultures, with some Hellenic elements, and native Indian influcences.

They called themselves Aryans and were defeated only in 5th AC by the Southern Indians

You mean the Hephthalites?

[bengalg3]

Weren't they or their rulers Europeans , why to make them look like the Southern Dravidians ?
They called themselves Aryans and were defeated only in 5th AC by the Southern Indians .
Saka are blue-eyed ,yellow-haired Scythians not Tamils,who are not even Indo-Iranic .
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...SakaYueZhi.jpg

Ummm.... No... They're not European...










Kushan worshippers

[Edelfred]

double-post

[Flavius Vegetius Renatus]

So if i understood correctly if a roman faction takes over armenian lands the only legionaires available will be in the form or mercs instead of the city recruitment quene? If that's correct then one will be destined to wait for mercs to be available and then have no option for retraining. That's terrible news. I guess better option would be if there is no space in descr+model file to create one single "imitation legio" and make it available for recruitment in lands bordening romans, the ones they never had full control of like armenia, bosphorus or mesopotamia. Well, anyway you guys know better what to do but this is just my suggestion.

[julianus heraclius]

So if i understood correctly if a roman faction takes over armenian lands the only legionaires available will be in the form or mercs instead of the city recruitment quene? If that's correct then one will be destined to wait for mercs to be available and then have no option for retraining. That's terrible news. I guess better option would be if there is no space in descr+model file to create one single "imitation legio" and make it available for recruitment in lands bordening romans, the ones they never had full control of like armenia, bosphorus or mesopotamia. Well, anyway you guys know better what to do but this is just my suggestion.

Well, they could be made recruitable as well or instead of as mercenaries. Remember, other Armenian Heavy Infantry will be recruitable for the Romans. I'm not sure why the romans would want to recruit imitation legionnaires when they have their own.

[Flavius Vegetius Renatus]

Remember, other Armenian Heavy Infantry will be recruitable for the Romans.

Problem is I don't want to use local troops when playing as a roman. Im thinking in line of romanization that at some point in the future my newly conquered province will have some converts to my cause. This means i will have romanized armenians joining existing legions or forming new ones. Local names like azat infantry sound to exotic for the roman. 2 things can be done. 1) basically expand existing legion's base of operations for recruitment and retraining everytime you conquer new land. That way as your border expands to Armenia and beyond so does your legions bases. 2) create a single fictional legion, in this case it can be "imitation legion" that is available to roman factions only in places beyond roman glory (lands that were never truly part of the empire like armenia, germania, bosphorus). This way you keep the number of core legions intact within proper roman lands but at least you create a true sense of romanization if a player wants to expand. And since we will never know how the roman state would fair in places like Persia an imitation legion would be a perfect fit. Close enough to roman standards but not truly it.

[TuranianGhazi]

Fantastic! Stellar job! Loving the units and especially the portraits. Very immersive!

[Rampante-Cid]

Another question: Apart the units of this post, khusans and sassanids can recruit another eastern warriors, like the sakas of the western satraps of India and the red huns?

[Rampante-Cid]

Sorry Double Post

[Edelfred]

Well, they appear to have been Indo-European, but that's hardly the same as "being European". And I think you're a bit unfair when you say we've made them look "southern Dravidian". The source material I've used pretty much describes them as a mix between Steppe cultures, with some Hellenic elements, and native Indian influcences.

..

Steppe cultures haven't existed at that time , since Turkic only started migration around the 5th AC . Iranic were not steppe but semi-nomades due to nessesities to feed their numerous horses and visit their mining complexes in Altai ,where as it was found a single mine had around 3 thousands workers.

Indian is word originating from Scythian Dn - water reversed to Ind .
Northern India before Aryans had architecture of that Eastern Semitic Babylonian style .
Anywhere religion of that time Brahmanism has been restricted to Aryans only , Buddism and Hindu were attempt to let non Aryans to have some place in society.

Don't know but the myths are myths . The nobles of Mitani (ancient Armenians near Syria ,Lebanon) haave
been Indo-Aryans . It means that people we called Indo-Aryans were not native to India ,they came to Mitani to India but
had another origin place .

[Gäiten]

Scythians, Sarmatians, Yuezhi belonged to the Iranian People and they were true steppe people and cultures.

[Edelfred]

Scythians, Sarmatians, Yuezhi belonged to the Iranian People and they were true steppe people and cultures.

modern Iranian people are of Semitic and Elamitic genes, who were submited by people whose leaders descend from the Andronovo culture and whose name the conquered Asians even can't spell right - Aryans from Aryana,descendents of Greko-Armenian-Aryan group . It is the same with the name Alexander which Asians spelled Skander or some other corruption . The word Iranians is misleading naming ,given in 1840 , long-outdated and simply non-scientific , since you can not call parents by the name of one of their offspring . I don't know the ethymology of the sons of Ara-mein (armenians) so they might have other meaning ,but A-ssi , in Georgian-Ossi, was Scythian name for Aryans too . They kept that to the letter A not I .
Admittedly Scythians on frontiers assimilated others ,but always keeping themselves as nobles . I remember one thing - the ancient Germanics ,Eastern ones, from the so-called Gothic confederacy haven't liked ordinary Sarmatians for their untidy dwellings , but they greatly admired Sarmatian nobles . It is a good example of Andronovo culture they always ,due to their cultural supremacy,
have established themselves as ruling class .

These guys are obviously not Europeans
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:HaddaTypes.JPG


Steppe Nomads ? Hardly, the Andronovo culture had massive grave complexes ,the best metalurgy in the world ; and domesticated horse before Altaic , Semito-Babylonic ,Finno-Uralic and
Tamil in fact these all have learned that from them . They have been ruling class in many nations from Scoti or Polish nobles to Mitani , but to bound them to one of their conquests or victories by cutural dominations,as you do, is not fair . Admittedly some of Farsi talking groupes in Iran and Afganistan are of European ancestry with later interference of Turkic and Mongolic migrants
Anywhere in India Brahmanism has not allowed Indo-Aryans marriages outside , it has also only permited them to be the ruling casts of priests and warriors .


The other point though is that Kushans were not Iranic but Tocharians , none of the Tocharians we know is not a European .
Their language though is not of Satem group like Slavic-Iranic ,but of Centum ,which is Western European .
Their frescoes were destroyed ,for their fair looks /
Talibans have also destroyed Buddhas in Afganistan . Don't go by that way . Yes, today India is Turkic-Tamil ,very few Indo-Aryans left somewhere Ceylon or Nepal . But it still does not make Kushan people Tamils or Timurids .