Previewing the battlefield before actually fighting

[Lockcaps]

I feel like this is a very important feature missing from TW. Since Empire you just don't know how the battlefield will look like before you enter it. This can be devastating if you built your tactics around what you -thought- the terrain was (best example is probably bridge battles, i generally avoid camping armies near bridges because you just don't know if it will actually feature a bridge)

There are multiple ways to solve this:

1. In the campaign map you can use a "magnifying glass" to zoom in on a part of the map and see how it would look like in a battles.
2. Scouts (agent or unit) automatically recon the area they ride through, giving you the details about the map
3. Armies who are stationary (you could even make it so that only stationary armies who are put into the new "Defensive stance") can preview the battlefields around them (depending on the direction the enemy army attacks them from)

The first solution is very effective obviously but it's also boring because it means that you don't have to plan your attacks, you can't just stroll into enemy territory and still know just as much about it as your enemy does. The reason it could be good for harder difficulties is that it will take away an advantage from the player. While obviously not as good as making the AI smarter, atleast it's something more than "hurr enemy units have 1000 morale and yours have 10"

The second one is more balanced, the enemy can kill your scouts. You don't -have- to send out scouts but knowing the battlefield will be a huge advantage, especially in places like the german forests. Obviously your army can also scout, if it passes through an area it'll know how it looks like.

And the third solution could be something for the harder difficulties. This means that it's easier (or atleast more strategic) to wait for the enemy to come to you. It could punish aggression too much and that's not good.

Thoughts?

[Gugg]

Wow this is actually one of the few good suggestions on this forum. It would be very usefull. As long as you don't have to load up the map or anything I'm all for it!

[SturmChurro]

Didn't they do this in SHOGUN 2, though? On the loading screen it had a map overview with elevations, etc.?

Your suggestions seem entirely too complicated, in my opinion. Compared to what SHOGUN 2 has, albeit you can't see it before loading into battle which is probably what you are meaning?

[Gugg]

Didn't they do this in SHOGUN 2, though? On the loading screen it had a map overview with elevations, etc.?

Yeah, but I think he meant that you would preview it how it would look at the actual battlefield when you control your units. You can preview it in 3D. At leas that's how I understood it.

[* Matolo Swazulu *]

Didn't they do this in SHOGUN 2, though? On the loading screen it had a map overview with elevations, etc.?

Yeah, they do, but I think he means an actual visual of the battleground instead of an isoline, ordanance survey map style...

[Sir Winston Churchill]

If I remember correctly Medieval I would give you a panoramic view of the battlefield on the pre-battle screen, which was pretty awesome. I never understand why so many good features from older games get wiped out and not reused in future games (such as the non-practical but still cool and immersive settlement view in Rome I). Instead it's almost like CA tries to make a totally new game from scratch every time, rather than building on the good parts of previous releases.

[Sharpe]

If I remember correctly Medieval I would give you a panoramic view of the battlefield on the pre-battle screen, which was pretty awesome. I never understand why so many good features from older games get wiped out and not reused in future games (such as the non-practical but still cool and immersive settlement view in Rome I). Instead it's almost like CA tries to make a totally new game from scratch every time, rather than building on the good parts of previous releases.

I'm pretty sure on Medieval 1 it was a panoramic view accompanied by a box saying what region you were in. Great for atmosphere it must be said.

And with this as the pre-battle screen too. So good.

[SturmChurro]

I'm pretty sure on Medieval 1 it was a panoramic view accompanied by a box saying what region you were in. Great for atmosphere it must be said.

And with this as the pre-battle screen too. So good.

Yeah, something like this is what I meant, but using the elevation overview like in SHOGUN 2. To be honest, that one seems a bit useless (No, I haven't played Medieval 1).

[* Matolo Swazulu *]

If I remember correctly Medieval I would give you a panoramic view of the battlefield on the pre-battle screen, which was pretty awesome. I never understand why so many good features from older games get wiped out and not reused in future games (such as the non-practical but still cool and immersive settlement view in Rome I). Instead it's almost like CA tries to make a totally new game from scratch every time, rather than building on the good parts of previous releases.

It's a pity really, because as you say, why change or try and fix a problem that doesn't need altering or fixing? But then again, if they didn't change it, people would accuse them of being lazy.

[* Matolo Swazulu *]

I like idea three... perhaps if you are in defensive mode, you can have a choice of three different maps from the immediate vicinity to choose from to give you an advantage for being defensive?? Not sure though...

[SturmChurro]

Maybe have the option to see the map when you first get attacked or attack. Like giving an option to view the map overview like in SHOGUN 2, to see if you would want to fight or retreat. I think in SHOGUN 2 they already have the conditions on that screen?

Your suggestions really do just seem useless and or over complicated, in my opinion, if it was possible. Well, the third one seems like it may be able to work with the "Forced March", etc. options now being included. You could put your army at a certain choke point, and do as you suggested.

You can view the map in 3d when you are deploying anyway.

[ztrain909]

Lockcaps, wonderful suggestion. This is definitely something that is missing from TW, not to mention it would be nice if the battle map actually matched what the campaign map terrain was showing. Great idea though. + rep

[Sharpe]

I think it was more for atmosphere than function.

But after you entered the 3D battle field another box came up saying "Ulster" for example, while the camera rotated and you were free to look around before any troops were deployed.

[Lord Tomyris]

I think it was more for atmosphere than function.

Aye, in many ways I found MTW the most atmospheric and immersive entry in the series...I'm not sure if that was the design of the game itself, or the fact that, at the age of 13, it was my first Total War title, and so completely, excitingly, different to anything that I'd ever played before. But somehow it had an extra spark of magic that later titles seem to have lacked.

[spanish_emperor]

Aye, in many ways I found MTW the most atmospheric and immersive entry in the series...I'm not sure if that was the design of the game itself, or the fact that, at the age of 13, it was my first Total War title, and so completely, excitingly, different to anything that I'd ever played before. But somehow it had an extra spark of magic that later titles seem to have lacked.

Indeed, i always remember playing MTW and the fearsome swiss armoured pikemen (the general for the swiss) who would never die no matter how many arrows you shot at them or how many dismounted knights you fielded. Tactic was to use skirmishers, attack, run away, attack, run away...And because the animations were **** it seemed like they hovered towards you. Still gives me the shivers

[ChairmanCrassus]

I like the idea and I myself have played around with the idea of more closely merging the battle map and the campaign map. Although the magnifying glass idea is great, I don't think many peoples computers could handle the campaign map AND the battle map (albeit in a popup window) without dramatically changing the game engine (there is a reason you have to load between campaign maps and battle maps).

The best solution that I can suggest is this: Battle maps should more closely resemble their representations on the campaign map. I know for a fact that Rome 1 maps used to have mountains, neighboring settlements, etc. represented on both the campaign and battle maps. On the campaign map you should have the option to zoom in further and use your middle mouse button to change prospective. This way you could see a 3D representation of what you would see on the battle map.

[stradar1]

I feel like this is a very important feature missing from TW. Since Empire you just don't know how the battlefield will look like before you enter it. This can be devastating if you built your tactics around what you -thought- the terrain was (best example is probably bridge battles, i generally avoid camping armies near bridges because you just don't know if it will actually feature a bridge)

There are multiple ways to solve this:

1. In the campaign map you can use a "magnifying glass" to zoom in on a part of the map and see how it would look like in a battles.
2. Scouts (agent or unit) automatically recon the area they ride through, giving you the details about the map
3. Armies who are stationary (you could even make it so that only stationary armies who are put into the new "Defensive stance") can preview the battlefields around them (depending on the direction the enemy army attacks them from)

The first solution is very effective obviously but it's also boring because it means that you don't have to plan your attacks, you can't just stroll into enemy territory and still know just as much about it as your enemy does. The reason it could be good for harder difficulties is that it will take away an advantage from the player. While obviously not as good as making the AI smarter, atleast it's something more than "hurr enemy units have 1000 morale and yours have 10"

The second one is more balanced, the enemy can kill your scouts. You don't -have- to send out scouts but knowing the battlefield will be a huge advantage, especially in places like the german forests. Obviously your army can also scout, if it passes through an area it'll know how it looks like.

And the third solution could be something for the harder difficulties. This means that it's easier (or atleast more strategic) to wait for the enemy to come to you. It could punish aggression too much and that's not good.

Thoughts?

Great Idea and I like it but CA has locked in features and now there doing optimizing bug testing and removing bugs and stuff like that. But you idea would be great for the next total war game.

[CDR Hurricane]

Great Idea and I like it but CA has locked in features and now there doing optimizing bug testing and removing bugs and stuff like that. But you idea would be great for the next total war game.

FreeLC, problem solved. (Even better, a patch)

Also, for anyone that thinks city view was useless, I used it all the time for tactical reasons. Knowing the road layout, wall placement, and number of choke points can make the difference between victory and defeat when you are tight on units and money. Some settlements need more pikes, some need more archers. Some have great artillery positions while others will just have you shooting into a building. Anyone who doesn't see the value of city or battlefield view is a bad general.

[Sharpe]

SturmChurro I also recommend trying out Medieval 1, it has aged well!

[SturmChurro]

SturmChurro I also recommend trying out Medieval 1, it has aged well!

Yeah, I should. Farthest back I have played is Rome. Would be great to see how things were done originally, with that and Shogun.