Consistent English / Consistent Japanese naming?

[Maklodes]

The mix of English and Japanese terms doesn't bother me too much, but I sometimes think about how to handle a consistent English or Japanese approach. I'd imagine that there are already a lot of threads on this, as well as the work of the ZenMod, but the threads before have seemed rather old. (I think this is the most recent one?)

The simplest ones are probably the "(weapon) (unit type)" units, like yari ashigaru or bow cavalry:

All English:

Unit types:
Ashigaru --> Footmen?
Cavalry: Already English
Samurai --> Warriors?
Warrior Monks: Already English

Weapon types:
Bow: Already English
Katana --> Sword
Matchlock: Already english
Naginata --> Glaive
No-dachi --> Greatsword
Yari --> Spear

Examples: Yari ashigaru --> spear footmen. Naginata samurai --> glaive warriors.

All Japanese

Unit types:
Ashigaru: Already Japanese
Cavalry --> Kihei
Samurai: Already Japanese. Or should they be bushi?
Warrior Monks --> Sohei

Weapon types:
Bow --> Yumi
Katana: Already Japanese
Matchlock --> Tanegashima (Teppo?)
Naginata: Already Japanese
No-dachi: Already Japanese
Yari: Already Japanese

Examples: Bow cavalry --> yumi kihei. Matchlock warrior monks --> tanegashima sohei.

Thoughts on siege units? Naval units? Special units? English for metsuke? Japanese for monk?

[JasonDomination]

Certain things you can't translate into English, like naginata. Otherwise, I think CA did a pretty good job in keeping enough English in the game to make it understandable, but enough Japanese to give it that special flavor.

[Maklodes]

Certain things you can't translate into English, like naginata. Otherwise, I think CA did a pretty good job in keeping enough English in the game to make it understandable, but enough Japanese to give it that special flavor.

What's wrong with glaive as a translation for naginata? Well, other than the fact that it doesn't make it that much easier to understand for English speakers, since glaive isn't that common a word in English anyway.

[JasonDomination]

What's wrong with glaive as a translation for naginata? Well, other than the fact that it doesn't make it that much easier to understand for English speakers, since glaive isn't that common a word in English anyway.

A naginata is similar to a glaive, but it's not the same thing. It's like calling a BMW a Mercedes. Not everything can be translated. There's a whole science to it called linguistics.

[Hazzard]

I'd say a poleaxe or bladed spear or hafted sword will be the best way to name the naginta.
Also, how will you name the Great Guard for Japanese?

[Maklodes]

Also, how will you name the Great Guard for Japanese?

I think it's "oban."

[Lokgar]

Ashigaru would be equivalent to footmen or levies(or other terminologies for troops that come from the peasantry --although I'm pretty sure a number of sources just call them 'light foot' or something similar.) and samurai would be knights.

Matchlock = Teppo or Tanegashima which is the region where they known for being manufactured at when they first arrived and I believe was used interchangeably.
Also keep in mind that just like in English there are many words in Japanese for different types of units. For example, 重騎兵 (Juukihei) = heavy cavalry, 軽騎兵 (keikihei) = light cavalry, with 騎兵 (Kihei) being a generic word for cavalry, so it depends how in-depth one wants to go, although I must admit to not knowing when these differentiation started to come up.　
IMO, Samurai should be Bushidan (武士団) = warband / group / company of bushi. "Samurai" weren't 'samurai' 'til hideyoshi started codifying bushido which the shogunate continued (IIRC).

Metsuke = Inspector or Magistrate. there are many words in Japanese for monk, I'm a fan of Biku (比丘).

[JasonDomination]

A naginata is a weapon specific to Japan. It may be a type if poleaxe, but it is a subclass thereof. Similarly, samurai are feudal warriors, but they are a subclass exclusive to Jaoan in the same way knights are a European classification. A word does is not classified by its definition alone ( in this sense even a naginata is unique enough in workmanship and design to qualify it as something of its own), but also by its origins, connotation, and usage in language. CA could not possibly use the Japanese names for everything, so they only gave specific names to more well known Japanese terms, such as samurai and naginata.

[Hazzard]

A naginata is a weapon specific to Japan. It may be a type if poleaxe, but it is a subclass thereof. Similarly, samurai are feudal warriors, but they are a subclass exclusive to Jaoan in the same way knights are a European classification. A word does is not classified by its definition alone ( in this sense even a naginata is unique enough in workmanship and design to qualify it as something of its own), but also by its origins, connotation, and usage in language. CA could not possibly use the Japanese names for everything, so they only gave specific names to more well known Japanese terms, such as samurai and naginata.

Closest Europeon weapon I could think of was a Poleaxe. Hafted Scimitars or Sabres would also work, but that's a bit unwieldy.

[RubiconDecision]

I'm unclear what the OP most desires. Is it merely to be consistently Japanese or consistently English? As the bushi/saburai/samurai cover the time period from say 1140 AD up to 1870 AD or so, the terms changed for the time periods. Not only that, but the proper Japanese names of the weapons are often incorrect as well, something I've tried to address in the VV under the nodachi topic as well as in the STW2 history section.

I guess one could completely Anglicize STW2 and have Leader Bob Jones running his kingdom and wearing armor and a wielding a broadsword, but isn't that rather ridiculous? Isn't the whole fun to immerse into other cultures and see how their armies and soldiers were different?

We could name everything in English, use similar feudal terms for everything in the game. I guess we could just call Kyoto something easier for you like London too?

EDIT: That sounded harsh. Look here:
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...99724-No-dachi

See all of the different names for the weapons carried by a samurai during the Sengoku period? Let's break it down into something easier. In general we have two parts for each soldier 1st part and 2nd part i.e. Ashigaru Yumi

Well the first part had multiple names as did the second part too depending upon the time period. So one could divide out all of those into subparts based upon time period and weapon name. Maybe that's what you're going for? But then you speak about English equivalents, and I truly don't understand why you would ever wish to do that? And again, the length and quality of the weapon meant that there were unique Japanese names for them as katanas were not usually utilized on the battlefield but other more sturdy edged weapons from the armory were used instead. So even your basic system would be wrong. Of course there's any number of fantasy units created too so players can have unique units to fight with.

[BullGod]

Because "glaive" is a word originated from french it's getting kind of ridiculous when you propose to replace "naginata" with it to make it english. Also, everyone knows what "naginata" is (more or less), so naming it "poleaxe" f.ex is just confusing.
It's good to explore those meanings, learn more about history, have some valid idea what kind of units and weapons Shogun2 is trying to represent in it's gamey way, but since there was no such thing as katana samurai unit, what's the difference if it's name is purely historicaly japanese, or not?

[kronpas]

Samurais aint mere warriors, samurai is a castle on its own while warrior is a board, generic term. Various weapon names should be kept intact save for bow and spear. The katana is a sword on its own (although they used the wrong term, should be something like taichi). In short, there are many terms without English equivalent, trying to translate them all to English would be ridiculous and make the wrong impression on players who aint too familiar with Japanese theme. Keeping roumaji unit names might look good, but would be confusing as hell for those people too. I think CA made the right choice here.