Sparta and Athens, Oda Clan all over again?

**Arcani 4 Ever** · May 10, 2013, 10:33 PM

That's the first impression i get from seeing the Greek City States and Macedonia. It reminds me of the Oda in Shogun 2.

Chances are Epirus and Macedonia survive while Athens and Sparta get crushed respectively.

Hopefully CA will do a proper job and give the factions on that area, specially the playable ones. Decent armies and garrisons for them to survive at least until turn 20, that will make it really interesting.

It would be really lame, that playing as Parthia, on turn 2 i get the message that Sparta already got vanquished...it would be pretty disappointing.

I hope someone from CA clarifies, if the playable factions will be able to survive the first turns, where the most AI factions get destroyed

**Rijul.J.Ballal** · May 10, 2013, 10:35 PM

Given the vast and dynamic nature of the game it would be hard to ensure this happens without over scripting events,me thinks.But i don't think it would take too much work to keep them around for 5 to 6 turns...

**Toho** · May 10, 2013, 10:48 PM

I have a problem with both sparta and athens... why are their lands so damn big? there were many other greek city states but I just see 2?
thats crap! those territories better be a host of vassals or allied factions to Sparta and Athens. I though I would enjoy conquering a divided greece but there is barely 4 greek factions there...

**vietanh797** · May 11, 2013, 12:24 AM

Originally Posted by Toho

I have a problem with both sparta and athens... why are their lands so damn big? there were many other greek city states but I just see 2?
thats crap! those territories better be a host of vassals or allied factions to Sparta and Athens. I though I would enjoy conquering a divided greece but there is barely 4 greek factions there...

57 big land divide into 183 regions
If I sum up everything I know so far the map will contain many type of regions
Coastal, Farmland, Mine, Village, and the most important one: City
You can capture Coastal, Farmland, Mine, Village instead of City(it still count that you expanding your land). Land battle now have more meaning since you actually fight for some land rather than still have to siege a town to get the land.
In short you can see in map Sparta look like 1 region but it actually more than that, how many regions actually in that land I don't know but I am sure it is more than 1

So it mean we won't have turn 2 FD, but if Ai too stupid then a turn 6 or,7 FD can happen

**Toho** · May 11, 2013, 01:18 AM

Originally Posted by vietanh797

57 big land divide into 183 regions
If I sum up everything I know so far the map will contain many type of regions
Coastal, Farmland, Mine, Village, and the most important one: City
You can capture Coastal, Farmland, Mine, Village instead of City(it still count that you expanding your land). Land battle now have more meaning since you actually fight for some land rather than still have to siege a town to get the land.
In short you can see in map Sparta look like 1 region but it actually more than that, how many regions actually in that land I don't know but I am sure it is more than 1

So it mean we won't have turn 2 FD, but if Ai too stupid then a turn 6 or,7 FD can happen

alright but again there are only 4 factions (counting macedon) on the greek mainland. both Thebes and Corinth are mentioned in the game and Sparta seems to be a vassal of League of Corinth but all the territories where these city states are suppose to be at is colored by sparta or athens.

I really hope the artistic representations are inaccurate and the campaign map is more detailed than that. I have always enjoyed playing in divided regions so playing a greek faction is highly likely for me... maybe Athens or maybe Epirus.

**Jokern** · May 11, 2013, 01:27 AM

Originally Posted by vietanh797

57 big land divide into 183 regions
If I sum up everything I know so far the map will contain many type of regions
Coastal, Farmland, Mine, Village, and the most important one: City
You can capture Coastal, Farmland, Mine, Village instead of City(it still count that you expanding your land). Land battle now have more meaning since you actually fight for some land rather than still have to siege a town to get the land.
In short you can see in map Sparta look like 1 region but it actually more than that, how many regions actually in that land I don't know but I am sure it is more than 1

So it mean we won't have turn 2 FD, but if Ai too stupid then a turn 6 or,7 FD can happen

Sparta is the region, while Hellas is the province with the capitol city of Athenai. Resorces will probably still be raidable, but most likely not conquerable.

Look at this map that spartan_warrior made:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

He says it contains around 170 regions. If you look at the borders of the regions, you can big borders which are the provincial borders and smaller regional borders. CA have confirmed that there are 183 regions in the game and this map pretty much shows most of them.

CA have also said that there are 117 factions. If we subtract the playable factions and the regions they hold, we get 156 regions and 105 unplayable factions. Everyone will get at least one region, so 156-105= 51 regions. This shows that some factions will get more than one starting region.

My point is that it's impossible for there to be more factions within one region. We won't see Corinth or Thebes or any other city state in Greece. Sparta and Athens are the only two that have been confirmed. From the map I can imagine that Crete, Rhodes and Pergamon will also be in the game, maybe one or two more. But the region of Sparta won't be a cluster of factions, that's impossible.

**vietanh797** · May 11, 2013, 03:24 AM

He is CA staff? if not then I don't believe him.
The map may be accurate to some point but still not what CA gonna give us

**BeastG33** · May 11, 2013, 03:38 AM

Originally Posted by vietanh797

He is CA staff? if not then I don't believe him.
The map may be accurate to some point but still not what CA gonna give us

I think the point is it's a fine estimation and the best guess we have as to what we'll see in September until CA finally pulls back the curtain on campaign. Everyone acknowledges it isn't 100% accurate...

**The Juggernaut** · May 10, 2013, 10:49 PM

The only question is, who kills them on turn two?! The Greek factions seem pretty small to me, and while Macedon is probably primed to establish rule over them, they probably won't be in a position to do so for a few turns at least!

**eLus1on** · May 10, 2013, 11:30 PM

Yeah this is a problem I hate in Shogun, I keep seeing "Great Clan Destroyed!" like after 5 turns :| And I usually never end up with any of the great clans after the realm divide, they have either been destroyed or in the process of being destroyed..

**Punic Hoplite** · May 10, 2013, 11:47 PM

I think Athens is still a protectorate of Macedon, as it hints at it in their description. So I think Athens will get Macedonian military support. Sparta, well, they're weak by now RL anyways. They aren't anything near their glory days.

**ptoss1** · May 11, 2013, 12:14 AM

Originally Posted by Punic Hoplite

I think Athens is still a protectorate of Macedon, as it hints at it in their description. So I think Athens will get Macedonian military support. Sparta, well, they're weak by now RL anyways. They aren't anything near their glory days.

That's what I said, except not as kindly, or logically.
Wouldn't be surprised if one of those three factions disappeared by turn 6 or 7.

**Ichon** · May 11, 2013, 01:10 AM

Main question about Sparta for me... will the capitol have walls? It might not be the provincial capitol as map shows Megapolis and that would be historically accurate I think? I've seen reports that walls were eventually built but never very grand or imposing and were ordered torn down by Romans?