Factions that always loose

[Papay]

Which is the biggest looser of medieval 2 total war?Well ive reached the conclusion that the biggest looser is the Byzantines.While they are a rich faction it seems that they always get defeated and they end up holding one island(cyprus or rhodes)till they get completely eliminated.Other looser factions include Scotland(usually destroyed be England)HRE(great units but they end up fighting many factions with equally great units and get destroyed)Russians(they always loose when they fight Poland and they get destroyed when the Mongols invade)and Egyptians(after the Mongol invasion)

Oddly the Turks manage to survive till late.The Moors also despite having many enemies because they have a good strategic position.Usually one of these two factions(spain-Portugal,Milan-Venice)is a late survivor while the other is destroyed early.

So Who in your opinion is the biggest looser in the game.Also have you ever saw an unusual expansion late in the game?(for example the Scots capturing Europe?Lol)

[_Elysium_]

I'd say Portugal. They can hang in there for a while, but never expand much so end up completely outclassed.

Scotland ripped England apart in my current campaign, but didn't put up much of a fight when I decided their territory looked nice.

HRE are always strong in my games, and are a good adversary for me.

The Turks could be another contender for biggest loser, as could Russia. The Turks usually expand until they incur the wrath of Byzantium, who then wipe them out. Russia usually overexpands in the vast Russian territories until they meet Poland. Then Poland decides to wipe them out.

Denmark could also be a good contender. I've never seen them gain territory outside Scandinavia.

So to summarise, I don't have a clue.

[Dude with the Food]

Milan either tantrums everywhere is ganged up on quickly. Usually the latter.

[lolIsuck]

France, the Holy Roman Empire, the Byzantine Empire and the Moors normally screw up early in game, Russia and the Turks in mid game and pretty much everyone else when the hordes come rolling in.

Factions that do well almost always would be Denmark, Hungary, Venice and Egypt with Poland and England managing to do something half the time. Sicily and Milan do expand quite a lot early on but than stop once they have to battle bigger/more advanced armies.
Spain, Portugal and Scotland are normally a bit meh, not really special.

[cretanKoG]

Byzantines are always the first to go, then the Moors, then Scotland, then Portugal.

[Aeratus]

I concur with most of the above. In my experience, the trends are as follows:

1. Moors and Byzantines are usually weak.

2. Among Milan, France and HRE, one of them will dominate and the other two will be weak. Over the long run, Milan among the three is most likely to dominate, because Toulouse and Frankfurt are very common crusade targets. Crusades against Toulouse (especially) or Frankfurt very easily turns the tide against France and HRE.

3. Denmark and Sicily are usually strong. Egypt is strong, absent Mongol/Timurid interference.

4. Poland, Turks, Venice usually hold their own, but are not overly expansive.

5. Portugal rarely expands, but is rarely eliminated from the game without player interference.

6. One between Scotland and England will dominate the other. England dominates 2/3 of the time, I'd say.

7. Hungary and Spain are either strong or moderate. They are rarely weak.

[PrestigeX]

Worst ones I notice would be HRE and France.

Both of these factions have a lot of potential, but they never seem to have much going on when I'm playing - other than town/spear militias, the odd Merc / Crusader left over (if I am lucky to face some challenge) and a sprinkling of knights.

Byzantines -- well.. they usually go down because I take them out. I find they put up some of the best resistance, and I don't usually see them go down because of A.I. But I am always greedy for Constantinople so I don't wait around for the Turks or Hordes to bring cannon-armies and the like

. Poland / Russia both seem to do very well in my games, but generally what happens is Russia displaces Poland -- poland ends up diminished but alive somewhere in central europe. Russia is always a beast.


REally though, the one faction I am always dissapointed with is ENGLAND -- they never do anything except own wales + 'england proper' and maybe Caen and the next one over...While that would be fine in of itself, it is the fact that their AI never ever trains any of their unique units when I play...

At best, I see them with 'regular' billmen in their army (ie the non-armored kind) but usually they have armies that are the same like HRE and France -- a small help in the form of Hobilars at times ( a superior unit to the Mounted Sergeant IMHO - yea not in stats but definantly in use and role)

For me, it isn't about which Faction is 'a loser' its more about which Factions have the potential to produce highly skilled, tough opposition in their armies / roster but completely FAIL to do so...

England could be - should be ! - owning the period, with longbows and armor swords and all that - but I never see this =(

[Kaiser Nonsense]

The Crusader States in SS always seen to be destroyed by the Fatimids if it's AI. Scotland in my last campaign captured good parts of France, whilst on vanilla Denmark seems to be one most destroyed, other than that, Portugal and I can't think of any other.

[Kataphractos]

I've yet to see a SS game where Portugal, Spain and Aragon are not overrun by each other and eventually the Moors. Hungary typically bites the dust as well, if it doesn't become a vassal. HRE is a 50-50 chance, but they typically expand into French and Polish territory before the Danes gut them. Poland almost always has a rough start, but if it can survive the first 100 turns and has at least one castle, they might go far. I've never seen the Turks last long enough to present much of a threat to the Byzantines (hell, I've never seen a SS game where the Byzantines were in danger of dying out, but then again, I play Early campaign, where Byz have roflstomp units compared to everyone else's spear militia armies). France seems to get hemmed in by England and Genoa and almost never expands, but they last a surprisingly long time. And alas, poor Crusader States...

[Masked Marauder]

I'd have to say Milan in vanilla. They always seem to piss off France and/or HRE early, so they are normally destroyed relatively quickly.

[totalwar_legend]

Lose not Loose, by the way.

And with me, it's whoever is unlucky enough to be my neighbour at the start. Either that or Scotland.

[Kataphractos]

Alas, poor Scotland. The few times they manage to capture a mainland territory, even if it was one of yours, you almost want to cheer them on.