Generals BODYGUARD

[King Philip II]

The Generals Bodyguard unit is intended to be just that - a bodyguard unit.

It should not be used as a heavy cavalry reserve. Their only job is to protect the General.

The Generals "only" job is to issue commands to his units, not to engage in melee or courageous cavalry charges.
(exception to some factions where generals are expected to be in the thick of it)

Try using the "Generals Camera" settings - then you'll not have time for the above shenanigans.

Just my humble opinion. I'm getting tired of BG questions and mods with very strong BG units.

/KP

[Fluffy_Bunny]

Orrrrrrrr people can play the game however they want... since it is a game not a history simulator where you try to be as historically accurate as possible.

[King Philip II]

Orrrrrrrr people can play the game however they want... since it is a game not a history simulator where you try to be as historically accurate as possible.

Since you have the coolest ever user name I'll have to agree

[Danzar]

Then why do they have such a good charge score? It's just too tempting, such that I find myself compelled to send the unit - General included - in for the occasional smashing, even if it's only to get those nice shiny bronze, silver and sometimes gold experience flags that make them so much better at doing their 'only job'.

They're not getting any younger you know.

[King Philip II]

Then why do they have such a good charge score? It's just too tempting, such that I find myself compelled to send the unit - General included - in for the occasional smashing, even if it's only to get those nice shiny bronze, silver and sometimes gold experience flags that make them so much better at doing their 'only job'.

They're not getting any younger you know.

I know There is also the chance that your general becomes a coward if he doesn't get a little "conditioning". As most people play modded versions of M2TW I hope it's ok to mention modding. Reducing the bodyguard size and removing their spears (for heavy cavalry BG) will make the BG unit less attractive. A few adjustments are needed in the traits files to avoid being a coward.

[knight of meh]

actually it depends because what you say is true of a mod maybe representing a pike and musket time frame

but in medieval times generals were often knights or kings who were meant to project an image and that quite often meant getting into the thick of fighting , i do however concede that in some mods there unit is over powered it should be a last ditch attempt at victory not your go to bulldozer

[King Philip II]

actually it depends because what you say is true of a mod maybe representing a pike and musket time frame

but in medieval times generals were often knights or kings who were meant to project an image and that quite often meant getting into the thick of fighting , i do however concede that in some mods there unit is over powered it should be a last ditch attempt at victory not your go to bulldozer

Aye - I absolutely agree. It's impossible to enforce this on the player and Mod "house rules" are a little lame, so we can only encourage our users to play our mods in the way that it was intended.

[Aymer de Valence]

In some battles (and in 99%) of sieges I would agree with you, but the bodyguard unit is too powerful not to be used when the battle could go either way. A general with good traits can be devastating. The leaders of this period frequently fought alongside their men. Surely it is better for your general to sacrifice himself if it means you can emerge victorious, rather than hold him back and lose the battle (especially against the Ai, who DO use their generals to flank attack!)

[totalwar_legend]

Bodyguards are probably overpowered as a counter measure for suicidal AI. If the bodyguards were weak, we could just aim a surgical strike at the general and be done with him straight away, leaving the enemy army with reduced morale.

[Vissewalde rex de Gerzika]

Bodyguards are probably overpowered as a counter measure for suicidal AI. If the bodyguards were weak, we could just aim a surgical strike at the general and be done with him straight away, leaving the enemy army with reduced morale.

Not to mention that that can be done even now with no problem.

[King Philip II]

Bodyguards are probably overpowered as a counter measure for suicidal AI. If the bodyguards were weak, we could just aim a surgical strike at the general and be done with him straight away, leaving the enemy army with reduced morale.

There are other ways to make sure that the AI general is kept alive. I think we have all done the surgical strike when it was going south, my point is just that it should be done as a disaster recovery option only.

I'm not letting you know how we plan to do this in TFT2, but if you normally base your armies on BG units you'll not like it

If you don't know TFT2 then I'm pleased to let you know that it's version 2 (for M2TW) of TFT

[knight of meh]

If you don't know TFT2 then I'm pleased to let you know that it's version 2 (for M2TW) of TFT

i vaguely remember playing number one back in RTW (i think) when i was still just a lurker , i wish you all the best for creating this paradox i.e nerfed generals that don't die easy i look forward to seeing it

[King Philip II]

@Knight of meh

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Already done - we have different units for each of the four campaigns It's a nightmare to maintain but we can control the historic scenarios much better

[King Philip II]

@Knight of meh

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Already done - we have different units for each of the four campaigns It's a nightmare to maintain but we can control the historic scenarios much better

[Aeratus]

Yeah, bodyguards are overpowered in the game. You don't even need heavy cavalry units. A single bodyguard unit can wipe out 4 AI units on the battlefield without any problems.

[stupar123]

Yeah, bodyguards are overpowered in the game. You don't even need heavy cavalry units. A single bodyguard unit can wipe out 4 AI units on the battlefield without any problems.

Turth to that . I even once soloed 6 units ( 2 ranged ) 1 cav and 3 foot with my BG ( of course it was king so it had even more men ) .
Too OP ...

[Kataphractos]

The Generals Bodyguard unit is intended to be just that - a bodyguard unit.

It should not be used as a heavy cavalry reserve. Their only job is to protect the General.

The Generals "only" job is to issue commands to his units, not to engage in melee or courageous cavalry charges.
(exception to some factions where generals are expected to be in the thick of it)

Try using the "Generals Camera" settings - then you'll not have time for the above shenanigans.

Just my humble opinion. I'm getting tired of BG questions and mods with very strong BG units.

/KP

So...we're not supposed to use general units as one-man-army wrecking balls?

Meh, they're in the game like that, so I will use their strength to the best potential and advantage. Yeah, some may view it as cheesing the game, but if you're not going to employ your general unit in a field battle, then why bring him along in the first place?

Yeah, bodyguards are overpowered in the game. You don't even need heavy cavalry units. A single bodyguard unit can wipe out 4 AI units on the battlefield without any problems.

I've witnessed a 2-silver echelon general being the first to die in an initial charge against a unit of woodsmen. Hardest I've ever raged at MTW2

[King Philip II]

So...we're not supposed to use general units as one-man-army wrecking balls?

Meh, they're in the game like that, so I will use their strength to the best potential and advantage. Yeah, some may view it as cheesing the game, but if you're not going to employ your general unit in a field battle, then why bring him along in the first place?

I agree with Fluffy_Bunny (post #2) - play the game as you like.

Your general has a massive impact on the morale and combat ability of your troopers. Placing your general on the flank that is about to fold will stiffen the ranks and prevent them from routing, which could have influenced other units and finally caused a general rout and a lost battle if the general had not been there.

The Generals character, traits, abilities and followers (ancillaries) is a very important part of this game. It creates immersion and allows you to associate yourself with your generals. Try reading some of the excellent AAR's out there and you'll see what great stories people have written based on character traits.

/KP

[Incarnal]

Yes, it's definitely a balancing act. On one hand, generals shouldn't be dropping like flies, but on the other hand they shouldn't be super soldiers.

Is there some way to improve the type of unit the general is to get around this problem? Perhaps the AI would handle its generals more carefully if they were horse archers or such?

[Maklodes]

I think that quite a few generals actually fought on the front line (sometimes because they thought it would boost their soldiers' morale, sometimes because they wanted glory, sometimes because their household retainers were the only people they considered reliable, and maybe sometimes because they were just bloodythirsty sadists who liked the feeling of their maces crashing through their hated enemies' cheekbones). The Mongols under Genghis Khan were distinguished by actually having their generals stay back from the front line, assess the tactical situation, and respond by giving appropriate orders, rather than charging into combat.

However, I do agree that a special "general's bodyguard" unit is kind of silly. My idea (posted on a TW: Rome 2 forum) is that bodyguard should be a status that could be applied to many units (while increasing their costs and abilities) -- most likely a knight type unit, but possibly something else: maybe the Byzantines might arm their generals as speedy vardariotai, so that they're where they need to be on the line as quickly as possible, and can get out if necessary. They did this with captains being "embedded" in a unit rather than having a "captain's bodyguard," although for generals, unlike captains, perhaps general's bodyguard units could get a little boost too (e.g., 2 hp). It's funny that in the Agincourt scenario, they had Henry V fighting on foot with his bodyguard, but they left that possibility out of the grand campaign or custom battles.