Spear length of phalanx units 13-21ft and alpha comparison

[Jedi]

I just realised this was one of the major things for me in the game and i have not been able to find much info on it from google.All the phalanx screenshots i can find have small spears except the Egyptians which dont look that bad but in reality a real sarissa is sometimes 21ft long.

http://wiki.totalwar.com/images/thum...ld_Bearers.png
http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgur...ed=0CEQQrQMwDA


Do u guys think those spears look 21ft long? Do u think CA should increase the length of the Macedonian units at least?Personally i think those Egyptian sarissas are roughly 13ft which would probably be semi accurate for that faction but for the hardcore Macedon lovers we really want to see proper 21ft pikes!



A quick google brings me to a pretty sad but unique image of a conveyor belt that happens to be exactly 21ft long for comparison.

http://www.sigmapackaging.com/Equipm...87/1_11587.jpg


And the picture of how a real 21ft long sarissa pike compares to a hoplite spear.I think CA have the Macedon units as Hoplite rather than pikeman.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_IYGc_MWwkf...vs_sarissa.jpg

[Demetrios of Messene]

And the picture of how a real 21ft long sarissa pike compares to a hoplite spear.I think CA have the Macedon units as Hoplite rather than pikeman.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_IYGc_MWwkf...vs_sarissa.jpg

The Macedonian unit shown in CA's picture is a hypaspist (or shield bearer as per CA's naming). It is not meant to be a sarissa wielding unit anyway. I think that we can safely assume that there will be other Macedonian units with Sarissas. We just have to wait for more pictures until we can understand CA's choice of Sarissa length.

[Maleventum]

the Hyspapists didn't use pelte & sarissa but instead aspis & hoplite spear (maybe, but actually their real equipment is not so clear ); while I think that the spears used by the Germans in the Teutbourg video seoom to me too long, if those are the famous framea they are supposed to be a weapons suitable both for throwing and trusting so their leght shuld be shorter...........

[Hannarr]

I don't think CA has even released an image of a proper sarissa equipped unit. the hypaspists seem to be wielding doru, and the Egyptian pike men are using what look to be xyston length spears. the doru in the OP's last picture seems a bit short at around 2.5m, as the were usually around 3m long.
CA haven't realeased many images yet, i don't see why you would be worried about it at this point.

[perifanosEllinas]

Do u guys think those spears look 21ft long? Do u think CA should increase the length of the Macedonian units at least?Personally i think those Egyptian sarissas are roughly 13ft which would probably be semi accurate for that faction but for the hardcore Macedon lovers we really want to see proper 21ft pikes!

I think CA have the Macedon units as Hoplite rather than pikeman.

No,they don't look long enough as shown in the preview of Egypt.The Makedonian sarissas should look way longer.

In the preview of Makedonia they show us the hypaspists with hoplitic equipment concerning the armours but their shields are generic medium round shields and not the large hoplon shields,their weapons look like javelins and much shorter than a dori is (it varied from 2,20 m to 3m),they are not in formation and their faction colour (black) is a wrong choice.In reality they painted their helmets blue and usually wore purple clothes underneath the armour.I think that their preview is the worst so far with very bad picture and many mistakes.

The Macedonian unit shown in CA's picture is a hypaspist (or shield bearer as per CA's naming). It is not meant to be a sarissa wielding unit anyway. I think that we can safely assume that there will be other Macedonian units with Sarissas. We just have to wait for more pictures until we can understand CA's choice of Sarissa length.

Hypaspists were a unique complicated elite unit trained in fighting with many different tactics and weapons.They were trained to fight as both heavy phalangites and heavy hoplites using Phrygian helmets,muscled breastplates and heavy hoplitic greeves.But they were also trained to operate as raiders or ekdromoi hoplites wearing only their cloth and Phrygian helmet and using hoplon shield and dori as main weapons and shortswords as secondary weapons if the occasion demanded it.So maybe the fact that they fought in many different ways is the reason for the confusion about their tactics and equipment.

the Hyspapists didn't use pelte & sarissa but instead aspis & hoplite spear (maybe, but actually their real equipment is not so clear ); while I think that the spears used by the Germans in the Teutbourg video seoom to me too long, if those are the famous framea they are supposed to be a weapons suitable both for throwing and trusting so their leght shuld be shorter...........

See my description above about the hypaspists equipment and tactics.

I don't think CA has even released an image of a proper sarissa equipped unit. the hypaspists seem to be wielding doru, and the Egyptian pike men are using what look to be xyston length spears. the doru in the OP's last picture seems a bit short at around 2.5m, as the were usually around 3m long.
CA haven't realeased many images yet, i don't see why you would be worried about it at this point.

No,CA hasn't released a proper sarissa unit picture yet.If CA presents the dori in the game that short as shown in the preview,then it will be a great dissapointment as that's a javelin,not a dori.The dori in the OP's last picture is about 2,20m to 2,30m long which means that it's of the shortest versions of it as it varied from 2,20m to 3m.The most frequently used doris were about 2,40m to 2,50m as very few units were able to effectively use longer ones.The elite units that had been through intense training usually used the longer versions of dori near the 3m and that gave them a slight advantage.We have to take note about the sarissa length in the picture too though!It seems about 5m long which means that it's also of the shortest versions of it as its length varied from 5m to 7m generally with the longer versions again being used by the elite units and the shorter versions by common units.I can estimate safely the length of those two weapons in the picture because I have fought with both dori and sarissa myself!
Ahhh,what a great experience that was

[Ariamanesh]

In the preview of Makedonia they show us the hypaspists with hoplitic equipment concerning the armours but their shields are generic medium round shields and not the large hoplon shields,their weapons look like javelins and much shorter than a dori is (it varied from 2,20 m to 3m),they are not in formation and their faction colour (black) is a wrong choice.In reality they painted their helmets blue and usually wore purple clothes underneath the armour.I think that their preview is the worst so far with very bad picture and many mistakes.

So you are agree with me that their colour must be replaced with Parthians.

[Jack Lusted]

The pikes in the game are 21ft long. The spears that the Shield Bearers and all other melee spear units use are 8ft long. Javelins are 6ft long. Lengths ahve been standardised because of animations.

[DividingSolid]

The pikes in the game are 21ft long. The spears that the Shield Bearers and all other melee spear units use are 8ft long. Javelins are 6ft long. Lengths ahve been standardised because of animations.

Sounds good too me.

[perifanosEllinas]

The pikes in the game are 21ft long. The spears that the Shield Bearers and all other melee spear units use are 8ft long. Javelins are 6ft long. Lengths ahve been standardised because of animations.

ΟΚ.Good to know.Thanks for clearing it up.They look shorter but it could be because of the angle of the pictures.I also have the impression that the hypaspists hold their doris in the preview nearer to the front edge than they should and that makes their doris look shorter in that picture.

[Dan113112]

The pikes in the game are 21ft long. The spears that the Shield Bearers and all other melee spear units use are 8ft long. Javelins are 6ft long. Lengths ahve been standardised because of animations.

I have one question that is not directly related to the OP's question. Are phalangites to be lighter infantry like they were in RTW? Because unless you have elite or heavy supporting troops it's a pain to besiege cities. Especially Roman ones.

[Jedi]

The pikes in the game are 21ft long. The spears that the Shield Bearers and all other melee spear units use are 8ft long. Javelins are 6ft long. Lengths ahve been standardised because of animations.

Mind = Blown

[smoke]

The pikes in the game are 21ft long. The spears that the Shield Bearers and all other melee spear units use are 8ft long. Javelins are 6ft long. Lengths ahve been standardised because of animations.

Now I can sleep well again. REPREORDERED!!!

[jakeswe]

^Sounds good.

[Sir. Cunningham]

So we wont get 5 rows of pikeheads infront of a Macedonian Phalanx I presume ?

[Dan113112]

So we wont get 5 rows of pikeheads infront of a Macedonian Phalanx I presume ?

At 21ft, yes you will.

[Sir. Cunningham]

At 21ft, yes you will.

Doesn't look like it from the picture of the Egyptians, I see just 3 pikeheads.

[Kinjo]

Going out on a limb here but probably because the formation is only 3 ranks deep.

[Hrobatos]

You will have to rely on auxilary units such as theuropoi and allied hoplites, so not just pezhetairoi infantry.

[Jedi]

The latest rally point clearly shows this is not the case.The pikes at the rear may be almost 21ft long but what you crafty devils never told us was that the front row only hold thier sarissa about half way up the pike and therefor the pike length in front is only around 12ft long.It is clearly only over twice the length of the men which at most would be 12ft.

Where is the other 9ft? There is a counter weight on the back of the pike so it can only go back so far without poking someone in the rear ranks so i clearly think you guys are doing a phalanx an injustice.

Just compare it at 1m39s in the video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwWrD...ature=youtu.be

[ab1713]

The latest rally point clearly shows this is not the case.The pikes at the rear may be almost 21ft long but what you crafty devils never told us was that the front row only hold thier sarissa about half way up the pike and therefor the pike length in front is only around 12ft long.It is clearly only over twice the length of the men which at most would be 12ft.

Where is the other 9ft? There is a counter weight on the back of the pike so it can only go back so far without poking someone in the rear ranks so i clearly think you guys are doing a phalanx an injustice.

Just compare it at 1m39s in the video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwWrD...ature=youtu.be

I disagree. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwWrD...tailpage&t=153 you can clearly see that the guy in the front is holding the spear in the same exact place as everyone else in the unit. Why would they make one row hold the pike in a different place than the rest of the men in the unit. That is just not reasonable and I don't think that would work with the animations. look hard at the front row guy closest to our view and you see he is holding the pike 2-3 feet from the rear.