MOS Gondor Campaign on vh/vh + Eastern Shadows And all evil bonuses. Anybdoy survive or prevail?

[CatoTheYounger]

I am currently playing MOS Gondor campaign on VH/VH + Eastern Shadows and Isengard secret Evil faction bonuses. No Imortal hero's on either side and using Central administration. Talk about fighting the long defeat!

This is an enormously challenging campaign because the war of attrition fought with Mordor and Harad drains Gondor of mapower even in victory. I love it because its closer to the Lore where Gondor was realy in a desperat fight where they could do little but defend and runs some guerilla raids in Ithilien. Rohan is finaly pressed as well as they should be by Isengard and Dunland. I have already refused them help twice because my finances were stretched trying to keep the pipeline of regiments up and running against the massive Mordor stacks.


Some of you have probably played with the same setup as me so how is it going? Im curious how others have handled this dilema. The vanilla Gondor campaign was challenging but MOS with Eastern Shadows is a fight for survival. Do they Shadows script Mordor Hordes Relent eventualy?

I spend all my early game building Farm roads ports and markets. Then i start upgrading my Barracks and Armory. By turn 40 im am just starting to get my professional force mobalized and my milita's no longer cut it. Becomes a race to max out my Barracks so i can recruiter more and faster. The attrition is brutal and in one battle i fought two full stacks of Mordor at Minis Tirith and a half stack of theirs just behind. I won by the skin of my teeth when some reinfocements from Peligar came and turned the tide of the battle. both sides armies were destroyed and i was slow to recover.

Dol Amroth and Peligar having a fight to support the Southern fiefs against steady incoming stacks of Haradrim. I lost Linhir but have halted them from going further...for now.

I realy dont know how this is going to turn out. Rohan is cut in half and mordor is emptying everthing on me. Can barely breathe.

[Macilrille]

Sounds fun.

In a way I have and can give some advice, but I do not use the exact same setup as I find the explosive and flame weapons of Rhûn and Isengard very unlorelike, but apart from that my campaign was identical (from turn 20- 50 I believe I have killed the Witch King at least ten times).

The standard tactic of blitzing Harad's coastline with a small stack is still viable and will give you money. Now I turtle, so I only do that as raiding; emulating Thorongil's raid and turning the Corsairs' weapon on themselves.

At the Anduin, you need to get a halfstack on the island at its estuary that blocks Harad, then reinforce it as the southrons move closer so that by turn 20- 30 you have a full stack there; the generals from the mountain provinces are perfect for that-it takes only one to build those cities as they are quite close together, though your pop growth will suffer a little bit- better than loosing Linhir which is an important economic province. You also need to block the passing at Pelargir with a ship. Both these and raiding Harad requires fleet superiority, so you need to get that ASAP despite the cost of maintaining a fleet- especially as from turn 50-ish Corsair raiding fleets will start to spawn and raid your coastline if Harad has any harbours.

Against Mordor you need to take and hold Ithilien, even if only for a while, war is about economy and those provinces will provide you money (and ranger archers), deprive Mordor of it and provide a buffer for your capital. I usually do not take Minas Morgul until after turn 100, as it is not that lorelike and as it spawns a dreadstack with Trolls and Mûmaks. But if I am strong enough to hold that dreadstack, I sometimes raid it to get money and slow Mordor- but against the terror of that valley, my men will retreat afterburning it.

Hope that helped.

Edit, often if the stack at the mouth of the Anduin is strong enough, Harad will just mill about and do nothing for many turns. Gathering two or three stacks before attacking you.

[Ngugi]

Not personal Cato', but MOS people are really driving me nuts starting up threads times over all over
Submod discussions are for the submods own threads, or at least to be put into the submod section.

MOVED

[magicgunnar]

I am playing a MOS Gondor Campaign on vh/vh right now Just uploaded a save and a screenshot here: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...1#post12801587
Feel free to do the same

I think I have been doing ok, until now (turn 39) I have not been hard pressed, but right now 4 quite challenging stacks are approaching. That will be interesting, since the most dangerous stack are threatening Minas Tirith, E. Osgiliath and Cair Andros, and Cair Andros is impossible to reinforce during a siege without attacking, as far as I know, and I have never defended E.Osgiliath or Minas Tirith before. I will probably put the main host in Minas Tirith, and if he besieges Cair Andros or E.Osgiliath, I will attack him from behind. E.Osgiliath or W.Osgiliath I would really not like to defend in a siege, since there are no walls to defend behind, and no space to use my cavalry I guess that would be terrible for my armies. I am not using militia at all, only archers and cavalry, and some spears and swords were I have them.

I am wondering if turning off garrison script would make it harder, since Rohan would probably have a harder time defending its territory. For now they have done well, but that is probably because of the garrison script.

The worst mistake I have done so far was a misclick that moved my capital to Henneth Annun, I moved it back the next turn, but it cost me 10.000.

[CatoTheYounger]

I am playing a MOS Gondor Campaign on vh/vh right now Just uploaded a save and a screenshot here: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...1#post12801587
Feel free to do the same

I think I have been doing ok, until now (turn 39) I have not been hard pressed, but right now 4 quite challenging stacks are approaching. That will be interesting, since the most dangerous stack are threatening Minas Tirith, E. Osgiliath and Cair Andros, and Cair Andros is impossible to reinforce during a siege without attacking, as far as I know, and I have never defended E.Osgiliath or Minas Tirith before. I will probably put the main host in Minas Tirith, and if he besieges Cair Andros or E.Osgiliath, I will attack him from behind. E.Osgiliath or W.Osgiliath I would really not like to defend in a siege, since there are no walls to defend behind, and no space to use my cavalry I guess that would be terrible for my armies. I am not using militia at all, only archers and cavalry, and some spears and swords were I have them.

I am wondering if turning off garrison script would make it harder, since Rohan would probably have a harder time defending its territory. For now they have done well, but that is probably because of the garrison script.

The worst mistake I have done so far was a misclick that moved my capital to Henneth Annun, I moved it back the next turn, but it cost me 10.000.

First of all sorry about the ovious listing failure. I have done more then once. Because i use MOS i should remember it is not vanilla.

Anhyhow i wouldn't turn off garrison script as it would make it too easy. The enemy forgets to defend cities too often. And yeah Rohan gets saved by the script. They were a bit generous with their spawned levy garrisons. But im on turn 67 and they are getting slowly but steadily overun.

Seems after turn 50 the stacks just come quicker then i can recover myy manpower. Eastern Winds comes in about turn 45 and you have to have your capital heavily defended or you might lose the White City. On top of that the Dark Lord starts his Crusades on Minis Tirith. Then with Harad having Mumaks in many stacks you can get overwhelmed.

I guess the point is to tke Ithilien early and hold it like you said. But early economy cant afford much cav between the waste of building such buildings to produce them and their lack of use defending i usualy wait tell later to use them. Gondor wasn't cav heavy anyhow so i wait on that. Which means on VH/VH im going to be facing full Mordor stack in few turns while only having some militias. I do have great captains however.

As of now looks like i will get worn down. If i do ill try your strategy.

[TimR]

You can block of the mordor front by constantly besieging east osgiliath an putting troops in front of cair andros.

than use al your troops west of dol amroth(lond galen, pinnath gelin, annolund en dol amroth) to invade endwaith ( everything south of tharbad and west of mordor) defeat isenguard and dunland and secure an alliance with eriador and the elves.

than use your western troops to launch raids into harad from the sea and from pelargir.

build up your trade center in minas tirith and your military center in west osgiliath and cair andros.

with endwaith conquered you can use the troops and money from that refion to conquer the weakened harad and south ithilien.

[Chromium]

Are you using the process_cq cheat, magicgunnar or some kind of submod that changes building construction time? Minas Tirith is building what appears to the Great West Road. I'm at turn 92 with Gondor (VH/ VH, Eastern stack spam ) and I only just built the paved roads( the one before West Road).

IMO you've expanded too fast; It takes time for Gondor to build up its strength & it's safer to defend at the Anduin than to strike at Ithilien- at least until turn 50.

Cair Andros is very easy to defend; You can take down one of Mordor's super stacks with only halfstack (Faramir, two rangers, three AM & 2 M). Put everyone on that hill in the Central square, get your militia to protect the archers & you'll get kill ratios of 1:40 easily. E.Osgiliath will be tougher but use your BGs well. Just one can fend off 400 orcs easily.

Sack Umbar regularly. (I gifted it to Isengard in the end) and then make an elite stack. I usually send it to Dunland & force them to become vassals. Do that & your money problems are solved forever! (Dunland has a bug that throws money at them)

[magicgunnar]

Are you using the process_cq cheat, magicgunnar or some kind of submod that changes building construction time? Minas Tirith is building what appears to the Great West Road. I'm at turn 92 with Gondor (VH/ VH, Eastern stack spam ) and I only just built the paved roads( the one before West Road).

IMO you've expanded too fast; It takes time for Gondor to build up its strength & it's safer to defend at the Anduin than to strike at Ithilien- at least until turn 50.

Cair Andros is very easy to defend; You can take down one of Mordor's super stacks with only halfstack (Faramir, two rangers, three AM & 2 M). Put everyone on that hill in the Central square, get your militia to protect the archers & you'll get kill ratios of 1:40 easily. E.Osgiliath will be tougher but use your BGs well. Just one can fend off 400 orcs easily.
Sack Umbar regularly. (I gifted it to Isengard in the end) and then make an elite stack. I usually send it to Dunland & force them to become vassals. Do that & your money problems are solved forever! (Dunland has a bug that throws money at them)

Thanks for the advise about how to defend Cair Andros!

I am not using any cheats or any other submods than MOS, I probably just have another building sequence than you. This is what I have built in Minas Tirith, I think in this order:
Grain Exchange (2 turns)
Gravel roads (4 turns)
Knight's Stables (6 turns)
Practice Ranges (5 turns)
Barracks (6 turns)
Paved roads (5 turns)
Chicken farming (3 turns)
The Great West Road (8 turns)

The reason I build chicken farmin before the great west road was my current financial situation at that moment.

I have noticed that Dunland have a finance-graph that goes almost to the sky, so thats why But I don't think money is a problem late in the game when the settlements starts being developed.

[CatoTheYounger]

Thanks for the advise about how to defend Cair Andros!

I am not using any cheats or any other submods than MOS, I probably just have another building sequence than you. This is what I have built in Minas Tirith, I think in this order:
Grain Exchange (2 turns)
Gravel roads (4 turns)
Knight's Stables (6 turns)
Practice Ranges (5 turns)
Barracks (6 turns)
Paved roads (5 turns)
Chicken farming (3 turns)
The Great West Road (8 turns)

The reason I build chicken farmin before the great west road was my current financial situation at that moment.

I have noticed that Dunland have a finance-graph that goes almost to the sky, so thats why But I don't think money is a problem late in the game when the settlements starts being developed.

Alot of sage advice on this forum thanks for all the expet opinions. You are right about the generals bf being invaluable. Some timie i dont have the heart to take them away from ruling their fiefdoms. The ones without the ancillary i use first. Now that i have droped that teaming them with archers is best suited raiding parties,

I prefer to hold Cair Andros and E. Osgiliath. I already use the hill strategy in CA and Ithilean Rangers with Faramir are my favorite units for gonder. Super Rairder ambushers. my defense composition for that city is virtualy identical. When they are secured skirmishing over Ithiliean strongholds and holding them if i can is priority in the East. Also if i catch a band of Orcs without Archers i send Faramir and IR out to whipe them out.

Harad Raids i am getting the hang of now. Keeping them off ballance and distracting them to recapture their own cities while not letting them set foot past the Anduin is the key. Raid on Umbar sounds ballsey but ill give it a go when i can mangae it.

The Raids and capture of parts of Dunland i have never done nor considered. Always too much on my plate already. But why should i not try to help Rohan and restore my Northern territiories? I will dabble with that and see if i can manage it all.

Again great mod and great challenge to survive and thrive as Gondor against the Shadow of the East and the old Harad Rivals. Thanks modders and game veterans.

[TimR]

Dunland is to busy fighting rohan, eriador and the high elves so it can be easely taken.

just make sure you have 4 to six bg there only 3 to 5 if you have imrahil (I brought 3 generals and adoptee another 3) you only need bandits and militia to garrison the captured towns.

It took me 20 to 30 turns to capture the region, by carefully retreating and ambushing you can avoid the full stacks. And capture the rest

[Macilrille]

Blocking by sieging is gamey IMO. Just take and hold- and if you do want to block by siege- why not do it at Minas Morgul?

Cato, you have the best cav in the game; your BG. They PWN anything except Trolls and Mûmaks- and Nazgûl of course. But you have other ways of dealing with those.

[TimR]

Use your bg as cav indeed, dont leave them as a garrison.

you could of course just repel mordor at cair andros and east osgiliath, but than you have less money for your economy and your raids on the haradrim coast.

[Macilrille]

Iprefer to semi-turtle as Gondor (as elaborated above), and most other factions. But in my experience at around turn 80 you start running into problems with your Economy. Maintaining your army and fleet- which are both necessary to fight off the stack spam- will exhaust your resources, so around Turn 100 you have to start expanding or you will slowly get withered down by Harad and Mordor. Personally I go for the coastal provinces of Harad to build up sea trade and shield myself against Corsair raid spam.

But has anybody actually continued to turtle after that point and fought the long defeat? How did it go?

[magicgunnar]

Iprefer to semi-turtle as Gondor (as elaborated above), and most other factions. But in my experience at around turn 80 you start running into problems with your Economy. Maintaining your army and fleet- which are both necessary to fight off the stack spam- will exhaust your resources, so around Turn 100 you have to start expanding or you will slowly get withered down by Harad and Mordor. Personally I go for the coastal provinces of Harad to build up sea trade and shield myself against Corsair raid spam.

But has anybody actually continued to turtle after that point and fought the long defeat? How did it go?

What do you mean by turtling/semi-turtling? What are the rules applying?

I never take a settlement I don't think I can hold, I never destroy buildings or do anything other than "occupy". In the campaign I am playing now I have newer lost a settlement. Is this semi-turtling?

[Ngugi]

What do you mean by turtling/semi-turtling? What are the rules applying?

It's a term meaning you play 'slow', take time and o not blitz and are overly aggressive to, normally, gain advantage that are technical (a.k.a you know that technically it is good to do A or B, but it will give you too great advantage over the AI or/and is not how a IRL leader would presumably reasoned, if taking role playing into account).