Archers too strong, again

[Am7]

All these problems are not realistic fights. They belong to the arcade battles. Which takes into account the level of a warrior. And it is not taken into account, the physics of strike.Men of War: Assault Squad calculated physics strike. Company of Heroes 2 is exactly the same game in design, but there is no calculating the physics of impact. And the game just because of this a lot of times is not interesting.

[HigoChumbo]

I personally loved how in shogun 2 archers were not useless as in the other Total Wars.

Made battles much more tense and unforgiving, you were forced to plan ahead engaging into close combat. I you had doubts half-way through, the archers would destroy you. Also, they became useful for countering flanking movements that otherwise would have ignored them.

[Aragorn-Elessar]

I think that archers are ok

[CnConrad]

I've just watched new TW Teutobrg forest video
here's the link ,in case u can't play video http://youtu.be/fvXCxGKo2iE?t=9m8s
and I think arhcers are way overpowerd, unless those in video are some omg barbarian elite,what I highly doubt. Just look at 9:10 volleys they are killing Romans with 60 armour (green bar is full , so I guess that's the best infantry armor in game) like they are unarmored. Archers were too strong back in S2TW, however that was kind of understandable,but not acceptable, because samurais didn't equip shields ,but here in R2TW they should certainly be nerfed.
What do you think community?

Why on earth should archers be useless? If a squad of archers cost 800 denari and can not do 800 denari worth of damage in 3-4 shots they are pointless and useless to field and therefore don't need to be in the game. Archers very rarely get to shoot more than 3-4 times before they become caught in melee. This means that you can not make that 3-4 shots worthless.

[Steel*Faith]

Archer volley fire should be devastating, especially if in a advantageous higher ground position or defending in a siege. The problem I've seen with archers - mainly in the Teutoburg walkthrough - was the laser like effect of the arrows (looked like something out of god of War) and how terribly unrealistic those fire arrows looked. Germans should be able to just pop out of the woods and start shooting fire arrows out of the trees, it just is cringeworthy bad; normal arrows should be devastating alone, there's no need for fire arrows, unless it's a siege situation.

Made battles much more tense and unforgiving, you were forced to plan ahead engaging into close combat. I you had doubts half-way through, the archers would destroy you. Also, they became useful for countering flanking movements that otherwise would have ignored them.

That's how I hope they will be as well, but not for every faction necessarily. Parthia should have devastating archers, and should be able to do things with their archery skills that others cannot. Certain elite archers units, like Cretan archers, should be just as effective as you described.

I never got into Shogun II, but did it feature heavy use of Fire Arrows too? I hated the fire arrows in Medieval II, but at least they were inaccurate and slow to fire. The ones we saw in the trailer were accurate and lighting fast, and the units didn't seem to take any longer to reload.

[Raikou]

reduce the amount of archers in a unit IMO. dot need no 300 units of archers, should be like 100ish max in a unit


Also make volley fire something learned, I doubt the barbarians had perfect harmony when firing arrows I wanna see a fire at will type deal for archers in the western areas and less accuracy for a barbarian base archer unit with no skills yet

[djvandyke]

Check out the Egyptian Archers

[Benzo]

These shots are from the flanks so they will be effective. The tree cover seems to help at times however.

Also if you look at a point in the walkthrough when the archers are firing at the legions head on, there are practically none who fall. You can see the arrows bouncing off their shields and all sorts.

So basically firing into the face of heavy infantry will not work, you will have to get your archers around them to do so.

[Augustus Scipius]

If we don't point them out on time ,they will make S2TW machine gun archers again.

Gotta love these armchair developers who think CA needs our advice in order to make a good and balanced game.

PLEASE STOP saying It's Pre-Alpha. It's not! How can a game be pre-alpha a half year before the release and playable battles and campaign? They didnt show anything about the campaign but it's probably already almost finished.

Because the footage was probably made on December? It does not matter at all whether or not the release was tomorrow, the demo they showed us was from a pre-alpha stage of development. Besides, in the beginning of the demo it said in huge white letters; "Pre-Alpha Footage". When you see a movie from the fifties, you don't think; "man, what a cheap movie, it doesn't even have color! How can this even be possible in the year 2013?" CA has probably fixed most of the things people complained about recently many months ago.

[* Matolo Swazulu *]

Gotta love these armchair developers who think CA needs our advice in order to make a good and balanced game.

Couldn't put it better myself!

[Petrucci]

So be it pre-alpha argument

Gotta love these armchair developers who think CA needs our advice in order to make a good and balanced game.

From whom else could they expect unconditional help? We, people on total war forums are their most loyal gamers.

[Augustus Scipius]

From whom else could they expect unconditional help? We, people on total war forums are their most loyal gamers.

Have you considered that maybe they do not require our help at all? That, instead of similarly to little children, they do not require any wanna-be developers to hold their hands while they make the game, since they are professionals who know better what to implement into their game, and how to balance it accordingly?

[Mr_Cyberpunk]

Have you considered that maybe they do not require our help at all? That, instead of similarly to little children, they do not require any wanna-be developers to hold their hands while they make the game, since they are professionals who know better what to implement into their game, and how to balance it accordingly?

Hi professional game developer here (Worked with EA, THQ and Microsoft). And I can tell you that the sort of feedback those who play the game more than our QAs and Playtesters tend to give much better and honest information due to length of play and experience with the product- they have a lot more experience with the product because there are so many of them. Players shouldn't go ignored, they're a vital part of the process. Any developer ignoring such feedback (like CA) is not only extremely foolish but doesn't realize the potential that fan feedback has to infinitely improve the product. Modding for example is a fantastic means of getting ideas from your fanbase.

[GrudgeNL]

Hi professional game developer here (Worked with EA, THQ and Microsoft). -snip- Modding for example is a fantastic means of getting ideas from your fanbase.

No. Just No.

[Punic Hoplite]

So be it pre-alpha argument

From whom else could they expect unconditional help? We, people on total war forums are their most loyal gamers.

That's like saying that no one else buys and thoroughly enjoys their games unless they are on the forums. There's no way in Baal's Furnace TWCenter and all the other fan sites are even close to half the population of people that buy and enjoy Total War games.

[jakeswe]

Gotta love these armchair developers who think CA needs our advice in order to make a good and balanced game.

Who are you kidding? Are you telling me vanilla Empire is better balanced and tweaked than lets say Darthmod? Modders have been doing wonders to CAs games there is no way around that.

[Augustus Scipius]

Who are you kidding? Are you telling me vanilla Empire is better balanced and tweaked than lets say Darthmod? Modders have been doing wonders to CAs games there is no way around that.

Yes, but when one is criticizing pre-alpha footage, it is just ridiculous. I'd understand if the game was already released and arrows were still were as lethal as in the demo. I mean, what did people criticizing the trailer expect to see, a game so perfect and flawless it could skip alpha and beta and go straight to gold?

[Mr_Cyberpunk]

Yes, but when one is criticizing pre-alpha footage, it is just ridiculous. I'd understand if the game was already released and arrows were still were as lethal as in the demo. I mean, what did people criticizing the trailer expect to see, a game so perfect and flawless it could skip alpha and beta and go straight to gold?

You realize we don't usually show Pre-Alpha footage right?.. Its become a bit of a silly fad lately to showcase pre-alpha footage. Frankly they should stop doing this as there's a good chance most of what we're seeing could very well change for the worse (as in they break something and have to scale back on graphics ect) need I remind people DX11 for Shogun 2 and the criticisms for it not being in the game at launch. People are being critical because they know at this point in time the devs CAN actually implement these criticisms and act on them.. later on you'll say "its too late, they can't put that in, they'll have to put it in a later patch".. so let em speak.

[TheCrazyCat]

So what if that is pre-alpha? If we don't point them out on time ,they will make S2TW machine gun archers again.

archers in S2 good? seriously?