Archers too strong, again

**Marcus Aemilius Lepidus** · April 28, 2013, 03:01 PM

Jack allready said that the stats were manipulated for the trailer. He said that the German Melee Units for example had extrem low moral so that they routed 3 times earlier. The romans instead have higher values. He did not said anything about the archers but i think they are also overpowered. After all the trailer is not representive for gameplay reasons.

**Anna_Gein** · April 28, 2013, 03:15 PM

"Pre alpha" means it is still possible to see some change. Once the game will be not anymore in pre alpha there would be little point to discuss this kind of issue.

What they may have altered or not doesn't change the fact that it would be problematic if this kind of stat was used for the "regular" game. So people stop to be so defensive about issues raised.

Originally Posted by Augustus Scipius

The entire battle was scripted anyway, every death was made to happen at a certain moment. The fights and volleys were mainly for show in the case of the demonstration. You don't really see combat speed, the lethality of arrows, or the effectiveness of the cavalry. Everything is made to play out in a certain way.

Hopefully more works was done for the game development than for this trailer itself.

**Mithridates II the Great** · April 28, 2013, 03:17 PM

Originally Posted by Petrucci

I've just watched new TW Teutobrg forest video
here's the link ,in case u can't play video http://youtu.be/fvXCxGKo2iE?t=9m8s
and I think arhcers are way overpowerd, unless those in video are some omg barbarian elite,what I highly doubt. Just look at 9:10 volleys they are killing Romans with 60 armour (green bar is full , so I guess that's the best infantry armor in game) like they are unarmored. Archers were too strong back in S2TW, however that was kind of understandable,but not acceptable, because samurais didn't equip shields ,but here in R2TW they should certainly be nerfed.
What do you think community?

I think archers should be strong like they were in Shogun 2 but shields and Armour should decrease the casualties .

I also like to see first line of archers kneeing when they're in guard mode or defensive situation .

It would also be cool if we had a line of fire in front of each line of archers for firing arrows ( like the beginning of Gladiator movie that roman archers did against Gauls ) cause it does not make sense that archers bring fire from nowhere to make firing arrows .

I wanted to make a thread about this idea but I post it in your thread .

**Anna_Gein** · April 28, 2013, 03:22 PM

Every developer use the player's input to balance their games and release patch. That was the first purpose of open-beta.

**~~PlPs~~** · April 28, 2013, 03:40 PM

Archers are my favourite units in every total war game. I hope they won't nerf them. I don't want super-powerful archers but they must be dangerous on the walls or high grounds.

**TheVictornator** · April 28, 2013, 03:57 PM

Abit late in the discussion maybe, but I didn't think that archers were that powerful in shogun two, and the archers in the preview were only that powerful when shooting at the Romans backs where there were no shield, which didn't seem that unrealistic or imbalanced to me.

**Chris Death** · April 28, 2013, 04:06 PM

That pre-alpha excuse is getting boring.

Why would you want to show something when you are working on something?

Most likely to get some kind of response - if you won't get any response (or only positive) you'll be in
the meaning that it's ok or that noone cares.

~S~ CD

**Modestus** · April 28, 2013, 04:17 PM

Originally Posted by Chris Death

That pre-alpha excuse is getting boring.

Indeed changing my sig temporally.

**Lord Tomyris** · April 28, 2013, 04:42 PM

Originally Posted by Modestus

Indeed changing my sig temporally.

I presume your sig is in a pre-alpha stage of development? When will we see the updated one?

**Chris Death** · April 28, 2013, 04:50 PM

Originally Posted by Lord Tomyris

I presume your sig is in a pre-alpha stage of development? When will we see the updated one?

I assume: it is done when it's done XD

~S~ CD

**Modestus** · April 28, 2013, 05:45 PM

Originally Posted by Lord Tomyris

I presume your sig is in a pre-alpha stage of development? When will we see the updated one?

You presume wrong my sig went Gold a hour ago and is now available for download on Steam with a complementary DLC , my posts however are still pre-alpha so none of this may actually be what you will read tomorrow.

Edit. Confusing myself now.

**Yayattasa** · April 28, 2013, 04:49 PM

It's not pre-alpha. It's at least alpha, and they may be aswell entering beta right now.

**Petrucci** · April 28, 2013, 06:04 PM

Originally Posted by Mr_Cyberpunk

Hi professional game developer here (Worked with EA, THQ and Microsoft). And I can tell you that the sort of feedback those who play the game more than our QAs and Playtesters tend to give much better and honest information due to length of play and experience with the product- they have a lot more experience with the product because there are so many of them. Players shouldn't go ignored, they're a vital part of the process. Any developer ignoring such feedback (like CA) is not only extremely foolish but doesn't realize the potential that fan feedback has to infinitely improve the product. Modding for example is a fantastic means of getting ideas from your fanbase.

See that's the spirit. Players should be allowed to be the part of the process of contribute the game.

Originally Posted by Augustus Scipius

Yes, but when one is criticizing pre-alpha footage, it is just ridiculous. I'd understand if the game was already released and arrows were still were as lethal as in the demo. I mean, what did people criticizing the trailer expect to see, a game so perfect and flawless it could skip alpha and beta and go straight to gold?

Why is it ridiculous? It's better to tell them on time then to regert later like Anna_Gein said.

Originally Posted by Anna_Gein

"Pre alpha" means it is still possible to see some change. Once the game will be not anymore in pre alpha there would be little point to discuss this kind of issue.

What they may have altered or not doesn't change the fact that it would be problematic if this kind of stat was used for the "regular" game. So people stop to be so defensive about issues raised.

Originally Posted by Punic Hoplite

That's like saying that no one else buys and thoroughly enjoys their games unless they are on the forums. There's no way in Baal's Furnace TWCenter and all the other fan sites are even close to half the population of people that buy and enjoy Total War games.

I'm not saying that,rough estimate about 70 % of customers are new to TW games. 10 % of us forumers and 20% of people who play TW but do not visit forums. Still they love us the most

**Mortarion** · April 28, 2013, 05:53 PM

I don't mind it, archers where a waste of money in Rome except some situations. They killed like 20 guys, why not just spend the money on infantry instead? Also, at one point in the video when the archers hit from the front. You can see most of the arrows bouncing off, they where shooting from higher ground into the flank of the very tired Romans. Makes sence they loose alot of guys, but having them nerfed would make them waste of money.

**BunnyPoopCereal** · April 28, 2013, 06:39 PM

The best part you ask? Spontaneous combustion.

**PROMETHEUS ts** · April 28, 2013, 06:50 PM

Originally Posted by Petrucci

I've just watched new TW Teutobrg forest video
here's the link ,in case u can't play video http://youtu.be/fvXCxGKo2iE?t=9m8s
and I think arhcers are way overpowerd, unless those in video are some omg barbarian elite,what I highly doubt. Just look at 9:10 volleys they are killing Romans with 60 armour (green bar is full , so I guess that's the best infantry armor in game) like they are unarmored. Archers were too strong back in S2TW, however that was kind of understandable,but not acceptable, because samurais didn't equip shields ,but here in R2TW they should certainly be nerfed.
What do you think community?

Well they seemed rather strong , but I can't say if are overpowered, after all seems not only one unit shooting , but several ... what left me more concerned is the perfect alignement of the archers like if they were jannizers or elite disciplined troops , weird for beeing barbarian troops ....

**Kinjo** · April 28, 2013, 06:59 PM

Originally Posted by PROMETHEUS ts

what left me more concerned is the perfect alignement of the archers like if they were jannizers or elite disciplined troops , weird for beeing barbarian troops ....

Did you play rise of the samurai? every unit in that expansion was in loose formation and it was horrible imo. I'm sure CA will try to make the unit look a little disorganized as they fine tune things but please do not use the formation from ROTS!

**Kenios** · April 28, 2013, 07:50 PM

This is exactly how Total War got noobified. Wah, I don't pay attention where my archers are shooting, and shot arrows into my own guys fighting a melee battle with the bad guys, and a whole bunch of my guys died! Creative Assembly waves the fairy godmother wand and magically the players' troops suffer much less casualties, even though the arrows are landing at the back of his own troops and at the front of the enemies. Wah, archers are too strong, why are so many of my guys dying when shot from the flanks? Creative Assembly again waves the fairy godmother wand and gives archers a good whack with the nerfbat.