I'm sure this has been answered before but...Katana Cavalry?

[ccisbeast]

I am trying to figure out if they're worth a darn.

I personally use them as a sort of flexible auxiliary cavalry force. I like to use them to charge from behind my infantry into the enemy ranks, then get out and charge again, etc. Or, if their archers are open, or their general, sometimes I use them there, if my 4 Yari cav vets are tied up elsewhere (which they almost always are).

However, this leaves no room in my build for bow cavalry, which I'm starting to think might be much more useful (though I'm not sure I'd have the time to micro, since I spend most of my time microing my Yari cav).

My first question is, then, are Katana cav actually worth a darn? They have worse charge bonus, so, there really is no reason to be charging them all day long, and I beefed up their melee as veterans, so they can do more damage and duke it out, but because there's so few of them to a unit, they would rout if placed in a melee anyway. Of course you can't use them really at all against other cav, unless I guess you flanked with them...So far the only thing they seem adequate at is cutting through bowmen like a hot knife through butter, and possibly cutting down a general - unless of course he's a fighting general!

It seems like I'd be better off getting 2 bow cav, instead, or even just 2 more yari cav to ensure I outnumber the enemy's cav.

So, seriously? Is the Katana cav just worthless? His positive notes all seem irrelevant or out of place.

My current deck was built like this...

Melee Gen
4 Yari cav
2 Kat cav
3 Kat sam
2 No-Dachi
2 Nagi sam
2 bow monks
bow hero
daikyu sam
long yari
yari ashigaru

The idea is I would send in the no-dachi to get a nice charge bonus starting the pile and put the katanas directly behind them. After a second or so, I would pull the no-dachi out and ensure the katanas are on the front line. The nagi sam would hang on the flanks as a little cavalry protection while still being durable melee fighters. As I pull the no-dachi out, I would try to send them out to the flanks to support the nagi sam and maybe even flank the enemy. Then I would repeatedly charge the katana cav up the katana sam's lines to pound the center. My yari cav are highly vetted so they oughta be able to win the day in a cav fight, alternatively, they can harass the enemy's back lines like ranged units or the enemy general, and I wouldn't need to worry about enemy cav since I've outfitted my melee force with those naginatas. I have high-range bows so they should be able to out-skirmish most ranged setups, and two yari dedicated just to the bow units to protect them from cav in turn. And my general is a melee gen so he can cause all kinds of havoc, either basically being a katana hero in the center, or breaking yari lines to allow me to flank here and there, or supporting my yari cav in a big cavalry furball, or even taking on small cavalry detachments on his own.

The whole concept seems "fool proof" but i have a feeling I'm missing some key details. I don't 100% understand the mechanics of Shogun 2, so I don't even know if it's possible to charge through your own lines to the enemy's. And...like I said...wouldn't it be more beneficial to just use yari cav for that since they have a ginormous charge bonus...?

Well, what do you think?

(PS. Before anyone recommends to me to use the vastly superior nagi monk cav, I don't have the ikko DLC and I think monks in general are OP, so I don't want to have to switch to them just to win)

[zaript]

One katana cav is quite safe investment. They do good against veteran swords and can dismount to work on enemy spears.

As for deck, I would say it lacks spears and has too many bows. That may work, but any aggressive cav user will tore it apart.

[ccisbeast]

Since the bows are small units, I figured it wouldn't be TOO hard to defend them from a decent Cavalry attack with two yari units, and the Naginatas would provide sufficient cav cover for my melee units, and of course my yari cav are the majority of the time used as anti-cav. My yari cav + general if need be oughta be able to handle the cavalry of the average army.

But I admit this is a build designed to dominate an army as a whole, assuming the enemy is balanced. I especially target monks, because I hate monk spam. I am sure a cav spam army will give me plenty of trouble, if not outright beat it, but I really don't care about fighting cav spammers, they're few and far between as I've seen compared to monks.

[CptAustus]

Use them in ambushes (or just keep them hidden until battle starts) they can easily kill other cavalry if they dont get charged, and will destroy non-spear units.

[ccisbeast]

How will they kill other cav when other cav have the spear bonus? Even without a charge, they still have the advantage in a long fight. Or do I have to charge them with the katana cav, and a combination of my charge plus their lack of charge will beat them? Still seems a little farfetched...

And can't Yari cav destroy non-spear units just as easily, especially because of their bigger charge bonus?

[TheCrazyCat]

How will they kill other cav when other cav have the spear bonus? Even without a charge, they still have the advantage in a long fight. Or do I have to charge them with the katana cav, and a combination of my charge plus their lack of charge will beat them? Still seems a little farfetched...

And can't Yari cav destroy non-spear units just as easily, especially because of their bigger charge bonus?

hmm, kat cav are pretty neat if you know what to do, and bows are useless get rid of them.

[ccisbeast]

hmm, kat cav are pretty neat if you know what to do, and bows are useless get rid of them.

Can you...explain?

[TheCrazyCat]

Kat cav lvl 4 2 attack 2 def have a nice stat of 25attack/15 def/ 7 armor (total def =23)(this is with renyos and p.grounds)
anyways, the difference between kat cav and yari cav, is SURVIVALBILITEH! vs infantry of all kinds.

Whats that you say? Yari sams can defeat your kat cav? NOT a problem, dismount your kat cav and smash those yari sams to bits. Sure you will lose 6 attack when you dismount but your stats will be superior than the yari sams. Kat cav are basically 2ndary sword units, dont have a sword unit at the spot? no problem, dismount that kat cav unit, then charge into the fray and wait for your nodachi to reinforce them

[ccisbeast]

Kat cav lvl 4 2 attack 2 def have a nice stat of 25attack/15 def/ 7 armor (total def =23)(this is with renyos and p.grounds)
anyways, the difference between kat cav and yari cav, is SURVIVALBILITEH! vs infantry of all kinds.

Whats that you say? Yari sams can defeat your kat cav? NOT a problem, dismount your kat cav and smash those yari sams to bits. Sure you will lose 6 attack when you dismount but your stats will be superior than the yari sams. Kat cav are basically 2ndary sword units, dont have a sword unit at the spot? no problem, dismount that kat cav unit, then charge into the fray and wait for your nodachi to reinforce them

Very interesting... I was under the impression that cav dismounted really weren't all that good, because their numbers will be less than the enemies, making and struggle futile, but I had never thought of just dismounting them to try to break a yari wall, or riding them up and around an army, then simply dismounting to flank or otherwise threaten them. I will have to test this, thank you.

[CptAustus]

A katana cavalry has the shear stats to beat many of the spear cavalry, mainly because they rely on a good charge.

[CptAustus]

Depending on how your enemy charges/receives your charge, you could even charge them head on, backed up by infantry.

[TheCrazyCat]

I finally got my ass off of LoL for abit then did a quick game of S2, heres my lvl 5 kat cav dismounting, to beat up some jerks with naginatas.
http://www.sendspace.com/file/8aqvoz