Question about Men At Arms/Broken Lances?

[King of the Wargs]

I'm playing as Venice and am trying to create a unit of (Dismounted)Men At Arms at my capital.In the unit description for the Broken Lances it refers to them as lanze spettale(something like that) which said was Italian for men at arms.So, to the point are these two different units or the same unit called two names?If it is two different units what would the proper name for the men at arms be?Appreciate help or advice for anyone who has had this situation or is aware of it.

[Maklodes]

I'm playing as Venice and am trying to create a unit of (Dismounted)Men At Arms at my capital.In the unit description for the Broken Lances it refers to them as lanze spettale(something like that) which said was Italian for men at arms.So, to the point are these two different units or the same unit called two names?If it is two different units what would the proper name for the men at arms be?Appreciate help or advice for anyone who has had this situation or is aware of it.

In game (vanilla, at least): men at arms (mounted and on foot) come from citadels. They cannot be recruited from cities. Broken lances come from huge cities. However, Venice cannot recruit dismounted broken lances. (Milan can. Sicily also can, but weirdly it gets them from citadel armouries.) Venice doesn't really get any urban heavy infantry (it gets lots of great stuff from cities, but not that).

Historically, yes, broken lances were men at arms. Knights were also men at arms generally, at least on the battlefield. Also, gendarmes are literally French for "men at arms." However, in game, men at arms are supposed to be a somewhat earlier unit. Broken lances are a sort of renaissance-age unit, abandoning their shields in favor of full plate armor (which, in game, isn't a good deal, which makes lancers generally worse than chivalric knights and such, but that's a topic for another day).

In game broken lances and men at arms are completely separate, other than the description on the unit card. You can't merge them, for instance, or retrain broken lances units at a citadel capable of recruiting men at arms or retrain men at arms at a city capable of recruiting broken lances. They're completely separate units, no more related than pavise crossbow militia and Venetian archers.

[King of the Wargs]

Appreciate the info I tried to create men at arms for Milan as well but it still says err unit type not recognized.What am I doing wrong I can create other units but not them,do they have a different name to be able to create them?PS I create a few units for a RP campaign in case anyone wonders.

[Vipman]

The name for men at arms used by the game is Italian_MAA and Dismounted_Italian_MAA

[King of the Wargs]

Thank you

[HauptmanT]

There is a such thing as a dumb question... When the question is not clearly stated...

I read this thread not having any clue what it was you wanted. If your intent is to mod in a new unit, it would be quite more efficient to actually state that.

[Posantio of Umbria]

I'm playing as Venice and am trying to create a unit of (Dismounted)Men At Arms at my capital.In the unit description for the Broken Lances it refers to them as lanze spettale(something like that) which said was Italian for men at arms.So, to the point are these two different units or the same unit called two names?If it is two different units what would the proper name for the men at arms be?Appreciate help or advice for anyone who has had this situation or is aware of it.

Broken lances, or "Lanze Spezzate" were indeed a term for men-at-arms, but not the definition of such (which would be Miles I think, or literally: uomo d'armi). The term Broken Lance is in fact a name for men-at-arms who have seen combat (i.e. broken a lance by sticking it in an enemy's face). It is the ancestor of the modern rank of Lance Corporal (Lance epesade). Alternatively it can refer to the medieval combat-team, called "Lance" (or lance-group). This was mainly a logistical unit for cavalry/mercenary formations, in Italy consisting of a Man-at-arms/knight (the lance corporal/"Captain/leader" of the lance), squire and servant or an archer once the Italians started to follow the English model (English lance was Knight, archer, servant). A Broken Lance might in that case refer to a lone knight or soldier detached from his lance-group or the last surviving member of a lance.

Interestingly, the French fielded lances of 6+ men (knight/man at arms, squire/sergeant, 2 archers, 2 servants) and the German states lances of 2 (man-at-arms+squire).