Mod Support for Rome 2

[AllianceDeath]

I hope that they just release modding tools as they should after they are completley done with all DLC's, then I'd imagine they'd make you agree to some rule on the agreement for buying/playing the game that you can't add in units from the DLC unless the user has the DLC owned.

Call of Warhammer mod is what I'd want to see, maybe for RTW2 or MTW3, either way, ships landings and other cool features would perfectly demonstrate going heretic as empire, or being Dark Elves and striking onto a battle field at lightning fast speeds.

[Will CA]

So far, Shogun 2 is the most modable Total War game to date; you’ve got everything packed into the Assembly Kit and Steam Workshop support, you can share what you make with every other Shogun 2 player.

Which is awesome.

[wangrin]

So far, Shogun 2 is the most modable Total War game to date; you’ve got everything packed into the Assembly Kit and Steam Workshop support, you can share what you make with every other Shogun 2 player.

Which is awesome.

I agree that S2TW / FotS is the most modable of warscape-based TW games, BUT :

Do you answer to questions about using those tools ?

Example : do you create EF line in 3ds max model or do you use a third party tool/plugin ?

Model using EFline are linked to an xml file that define EFline types, coordinates and direction.
This file is needed to use the .max to CS2 converter.

The only solution I have, for the moment, is to create "manually" data in xml... not very funny.
I suppose it is possible to automate this, by creating lines in .max model and extracting all information needed.



Other example and question : how do you place guns in buildings ?

In examples that CA released, I can't see how they manage guns in buildings.
I only find 2 lines in efline xml file, but no informations about data needed.
I've also checked db (model_building tables) but can't find anything about how to place guns.
Those informations are maybe in the cs2.pased file, but I cannot open it.


Other example and question : we have tried to create new guns, but have had several problems

First, importing models create for previous games (ETW/NTW) : the gun look like "
Second, trying to add our own "skeleton" to the gun, we have had "wrong bone structure"

i run into some problems, while exporting - 1. CA wasn't so kind to deliver also some base models for cannons, which means we can't use the cs2 exporter, which means we can't export the shader information, which means, that cannons might look ugly - and the old models, also seam to make some problems... when exported they were tiny and floated above the ground

when I tried to export and convert the model, BoB gave out some errors regarding the bone structure, maybe hardcoded, maybe i did something wrong
just tried to export it as a mangonel... still tells me "wrong bone structure"

I understand that CA is pretty overworked, focusing on R2TW, but any tips/trick/information would be welcome.


Regards

[AngryTitusPullo]

So far, Shogun 2 is the most modable Total War game to date; you’ve got everything packed into the Assembly Kit and Steam Workshop support, you can share what you make with every other Shogun 2 player.

Which is awesome.

How about the update ? Any news ? The kit still contains pre Otomo DLC files.

[barry12]

as long as we get a preferences.script i'll be happy. The only two things i know i will mod are the unit sizes to make them larger and perhaps the one turn per year scheme i hear about... apart from that, there are enough features in this game to keep me occupied for life

[empire tw]

yep mod support count on it
CA even decided to destroy DOts (mod)...

quote by Hross team of DOts:
We have been informed by the TWC site admins that Creative Assembly and SEGA have contacted them requesting that we remove our claim to copyright over our own intellectual material.

[cevap]

yep mod support count on it
CA even decided to destroy DOts (mod)...

quote by Hross team of DOts:
We have been informed by the TWC site admins that Creative Assembly and SEGA have contacted them requesting that we remove our claim to copyright over our own intellectual material.

What I get from his quote is that CA asked him to remove his claim to copyright not to stop modding or releasing the mod. If Im right here then it actually makes sense since it would be weird if they could copyright a game basically on CAs engine.

[Father Jack]

It's more of a legal dispute over copyrighting rather than CA attempting to destroy modding.

This is why you don't add personal copyright to mods of any game unless you wrote the core code files yourself and made a game from scratch. I can understand why you may want to protect your own intellectual property, but when you are using the copyrighted property of another organisation/person (in this case CA's and Sega's) as a base for your work, there will inevitably be a conflict of interest. If you create a mod and you are afraid of other modders stealing your work without permission then that is a risk you take. TWC operates a strict policy of not tolerating this and there are plenty of excellent mods out there by teams who haven't gone down this slightly bizarre route of copyrighting their own material - TATW, RS, EB, BC etc.

In short - Don't add personal copyrights to mods.

[empire tw]

* it's not mine, nor i have something to do with it, i am just a fan of mods

tought doesn't other mods have this copyright thing ?
meaning that they can close what mods they want to...

[nameless]

* it's not mine, nor i have something to do with it, i am just a fan of mods

tought doesn't other mods have this copyright thing ?
meaning that they can close what mods they want to...

If I'm reading it right according to Father what he says is this.

Modder -->Makes a mod off of MTW2 which CA is fine with.

Modder then in order to prevent other "modders" from taking his work for themselves then tries to put his own personal copyright on it and that's when CA had to go in and stop him.

Because the engine and game belongs to CA therefore the modder does not have the right to add his own personal copyright to it. It'd be the same thing if he asked for payment if I'm correct.

The modders have permission from CA to do whatever they want with their Total War game and make mods out of whatever but the line is drawn at asking for money or personal copyrights.

Yeah you did, read what I said and self-quoted. You said you hadn't played mods since ETW, and I said when ETW came out modding went downhill, that's the point.

Maybe I should've said I haven't played mods since MTW2 then because that's when I lost interest but you really are just ignoring my other points for the sake of your argument in some delusion that CA is out to destroy modding. I also said that I don't even touch DLC's so your argument that it detracts from sales is moot for some other people.

As I said, RTW had some decent mods because the vanilla wasn't that great and I don't need to go into details on what the issues were.

I haven't found any interest since ETW and did look into things now and then but it's only when Shogun 2 came out that mods started getting interesting because of the STEAM Workshop and assembly kit.

Like I said, now people who could care less about modding or have very little knowledge about it can actually acquire any mod they want at the click of a button and not have to go through a sometimes long and complicated procedure to make sure it runs.

I was more pointing to modding detracting from DLC sales, rather than the main game, which would have to be sold for modding to begin in the first place. But fair points nonetheless chap.

Right which is why CA made great efforts to make mod tools and such.

Explain to me how the STEAM Workshop which Skyrim and Team Fortress uses and the Assembly Kit proves to you that CA is against modding and detracts DLC sales when they made it even easier to distribute.

[Murfmurf]

you really are just ignoring my other points for the sake of your argument in some delusion that CA is out to destroy modding.

I could say the same for you, and don't put words in my mouth. At what point did I say CA were out to destroy modding. Rome 1 and Medieval 2 were both much more moddable than any of the following titles. This alone and the fact we'd like Rome 2 to reach those modding heights were the sole points and wishes made.

You wax lyrical about the assembly kit but are you even a modder? Have you used the kit or modded R1 or M2? The kit may be good and so is the Steam community, but regardless of the benefits those bring it does not mean that Shogun is more moddable than R1 or M2 which, again, was the sole point I was making.

The subjectiveness of your likes and dislikes is irrelevant, as are mine. The above is simple fact, that any modder would adhere to. No mods for Shogun, regardless of the kit, have modded the game to levels of EB or TATW. Again, simple fact.

[nameless]

I could say the same for you, and don't put words in my mouth

Looks like I'm going to have to bring out your quotes then

. At what point did I say CA were out to destroy modding.

Modding reduces their income through less DLC sales. After all, why spend £5 when you can get a mod that does the same thing for free?

Here you indirectly specify that modding is bad for their DLC business so you imply it's in their interests to reduce support for it. If that's not implying that CA isn't keen on modding I don't know what that is.

Rome 1 and Medieval 2 were both much more moddable than any of the following titles. This alone and the fact we'd like Rome 2 to reach those modding heights were the sole points and wishes made.

So again the Assembly Kit and Workshop means nothing to you at all? The fact that it sets the foundation to deliver mods even easier to people who couldn't care less or out of frustration never bothered with them means nothing to you? A mod is nothing unless it can be easily delivered.

You wax lyrical about the assembly kit but are you even a modder? Have you used the kit or modded R1 or M2? The kit may be good and so is the Steam community, but regardless of the benefits those bring it does not mean that Shogun is more moddable than R1 or M2 which, again, was the sole point I was making.

Well that explains a lot about your attitude. No matter how much someone does something for you you'll never be pleased.

I'm not a modder but I'm more than aware of the fact that distribution is just as important as making the mods itself. What's the point of making the mod and then have few people be able to figure out how to make it work? Just because you may have a math teacher playing the game doesn't mean he'll know exactly how to work out a mod.

And CA already explained that they went overboard with their engine in that it was a lot more complicated which led to modding difficulties so they are trying to work that out.

And for the record I have modded both RT1 and MTW2 to a limited extent but that was for my own personal benefit.

The subjectiveness of your likes and dislikes is irrelevant, as are mine. The above is simple fact, that any modder would adhere to. No mods for Shogun, regardless of the kit, have modded the game to levels of EB or TATW. Again, simple fact.

Which CA already explained awhile back and now they are using a new engine.

So again you're ignoring my question, if CA was out to reduce mod support then according to what you are saying why are they making it easier to distribute it through the network along with these kits?

[daniu]

The fact is is that you can NOT take someone else's work, do some stuff on it, and then present it to the public and add you own copyright to it.

Of course you can.
When someone creates a 3D model for a new unit type (say, the tanks for ETW's Great War), they can claim copyright on it. Otherwise it would be legal for CA to use that model in their next game. Or anyone, for that matter...

Modding reduces their income through less DLC sales. After all, why spend £5 when you can get a mod that does the same thing for free?

That modding reduces DLC sales is a very disputable claim. There are good reasons why you would buy a DLC although you use mods (depending on the mods you do use), and I'm sure there are lots of people who buy DLCs but don't want to get into installing mods.

[Augustus Scipius]

I could say the same for you, and don't put words in my mouth. At what point did I say CA were out to destroy modding. Rome 1 and Medieval 2 were both much more moddable than any of the following titles. This alone and the fact we'd like Rome 2 to reach those modding heights were the sole points and wishes made.

You wax lyrical about the assembly kit but are you even a modder? Have you used the kit or modded R1 or M2? The kit may be good and so is the Steam community, but regardless of the benefits those bring it does not mean that Shogun is more moddable than R1 or M2 which, again, was the sole point I was making.

The subjectiveness of your likes and dislikes is irrelevant, as are mine. The above is simple fact, that any modder would adhere to. No mods for Shogun, regardless of the kit, have modded the game to levels of EB or TATW. Again, simple fact.

To be fair, if anything the mod tools show us that technology has really moved forward. In Medieval 2 and RTW you could make a mod by just typing a few rows into the descr. txt. files. Animations and unit models were easier to mod also.

CA encourages modding. They released modding tools for all titles and enabled Steam Workshop for Shogun 2. Despite this, there have been no projects to make total conversions or even less complex conversion mods. Why? Because even with the tools, modding post-warscape titles is extremely hard to the point no one without considerable skill or experience wants to try his luck modding them. However, even before these tools, we have had some conversion mods, most notably the American Civil War mod for Empire, and The Great War mod for Napoleon. The Great War modders have even been able to make a tank and machine gun models into the mod, without even using any CA-issued tools.

I for one never understood the need for total conversion mods like TATW. Mods that fix bugs, enhance visuals/uniforms and recently slow down the casualty rate have always been enough for me. Besides, Total War modding is anything but impossible. We have had new Darthmods, TROMS and Realism mods, to name but a few.

It is true that the age of total conversions is pretty much over, but that is the case with nearly every title. Even Skyrim that is renown for its mods has relatively few total conversions, because even on its engine they are hard to make.

[Murfmurf]

To be fair, if anything the mod tools show us that technology has really moved forward. In Medieval 2 and RTW you could make a mod by just typing a few rows into the descr. txt. files. Animations and unit models were easier to mod also.

CA encourages modding. They released modding tools for all titles and enabled Steam Workshop for Shogun 2. Despite this, there have been no projects to make total conversions or even less complex conversion mods. Why? Because even with the tools, modding post-warscape titles is extremely hard to the point no one without considerable skill or experience wants to try his luck modding them. However, even before these tools, we have had some conversion mods, most notably the American Civil War mod for Empire, and The Great War mod for Napoleon. The Great War modders have even been able to make a tank and machine gun models into the mod, without even using any CA-issued tools.

I for one never understood the need for total conversion mods like TATW. Mods that fix bugs, enhance visuals/uniforms and recently slow down the casualty rate have always been enough for me. Besides, Total War modding is anything but impossible. We have had new Darthmods, TROMS and Realism mods, to name but a few.

It is true that the age of total conversions is pretty much over, but that is the case with nearly every title. Even Skyrim that is renown for its mods has relatively few total conversions, because even on its engine they are hard to make.

Fair points, bud.

In an ideal world I'd guess you'd want CA to build modding support or "ease of access", so to speak, into the engine. But it's obviously understandable why this is not the case.

The biggest issue with those mods you've mentioned is the lack of strat map modification. We have some good mods for the battlefield, but not a full campaign. The main reason, at least for me, why full conversion mods are interesting as if you really enjoy a game it's great to have those mechanics in another setting you really enjoy.

[cevap]

* it's not mine, nor i have something to do with it, i am just a fan of mods

tought doesn't other mods have this copyright thing ?
meaning that they can close what mods they want to...

As far as Im aware no other modder group ever tried copyrighting their mods here or anywhere for that matter.
Reading their post about it, it seems they used some 3rd party copyrighted tools and SEGA or the CA did not try to muscle those rights within their work?

I dont know what is going on here exactly but CA never had problems with mods before even stuff owned by other major companies (TATW, that Zelda Mod, Warhammer mod, Game of Thrones) so I doubt its their active doing in shutting this mod down for nothing as you made it sound.

[empire tw]

sure but they could atleast ignore that, it's a minor detail wich doesn't affect CA or if it does it is on a positive way
it's the attitude too that CA showed...

btw the thread they told that:
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...on-Permissions

[Rhaegar1]

sure but they could atleast ignore that, it's a minor detail wich doesn't affect CA or if it does it is on a positive way
it's the attitude too that CA showed...

btw the thread they told that:
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...on-Permissions

Ignore it? If they would ignore it and next year the modders from DotS decide to sell the copyright to EA then EA would suddenly have the rights on all the codework in the DotS mod right? If I would run a company I would try to make sure that wouldn't happen too.

[cevap]

Ignore it? If they would ignore it and next year the modders from DotS decide to sell the copyright to EA then EA would suddenly have the rights on all the codework in the DotS mod right? If I would run a company I would try to make sure that wouldn't happen too.

Why would EA even need to buy it from the DotS team? They could just make a mod themselves, maybe on the never Warscape engine, copyright it and quickly ban CA from releasing R2:TW because it uses the same engine. Obviously thats far fetched but this is a potential legal nightmare over who owns what and if CA allow or ignore someone copyrighting parts of their work they loose it part by part until they own none or the minority.

Of course some would prefer if Maxis would make the next Total War and it would be an always-online MMO with a NISSAN faction and Oral-B units as "free" DLC.

[nameless]

They're a company, they have a legal department that handles these things and have every right to protect their intellecutual property.

So your attitude, "Oh they could ignore that" isn't the appropriate way to handle it because then if someone pushes even further down the road then a case could be made, "Well you let those guys off so why not these guys?"

The fact is is that you can NOT take someone else's work, do some stuff on it, and then present it to the public and add you own copyright to it.