Cavalry charge idea for Creative Assembly :)

[DogSoldierSPQR]

Let me know if you like my idea, guys. One thing that people should think about is; when a cavalry unit is super-determined to charge a spear unit without backing down, they will smack into those spears and the first line of horses will be taken out of the fight a lot of the time but I think the dead bodies of the affected horses should fall into the first line of those spear troops injuring and even killing them too. Not only is this realistic, but it would also balance things out a little bit and stop spear/phalanx troops from constantly dominating. Sure a spear wall can damage a cavalry unit the most, but when an animal weighing hundreds of pounds takes a spear to the chest, it will become dead weight and fall right into that spear formation, crushing that dude/s it lands on. Creative Assembly, I hope you like this idea Another reason for why I think you should implement this is because it's realistic and useless cavalry like the mercenary barbarian cavalry can finally serve a purpose Mercenaries in my army have to work for their pay! For example, slam that useless cavalry into that spear wall causing chaos and making those units disorganised, leave them there until your heavy infantry can get in there with their swords. Very curious to hear the thoughts of others about this.

[Post Hoc]

Horses have this thing called self preservation, and so do the riders.

[NitzanLeo]

Horses have this thing called self preservation, and so do the riders.

Very true. There is a problem in the idea of a charge like that. I mean, would you really even want to do that? It's tactically a horrible idea, unless you really have to (i.e, last enemy unit in a spear square and all you have is cavalry).

[Prince Regent George]

Horses have this thing called self preservation, and so do the riders.

Remember the charge of the Light Brigade. But this is a contoversial issue, since many say it was gallant, others claim it was stupid, while I enjoyed the movie.

[flippingdesks]

Remember the charge of the Light Brigade. But this is a contoversial issue, since many say it was gallant, others claim it was stupid, while I enjoyed the movie.

The charge of the light brigade is completely different. There were no spears, the horses didn't stop because they were not intelligent enough to see the danger from cannons like humans would.

1900 years back, the horses would have seen the spears and thought "they look a bit pointy, how about no" and backed off, or reared.

[Kraxis]

Remember the charge of the Light Brigade. But this is a contoversial issue, since many say it was gallant, others claim it was stupid, while I enjoyed the movie.

Won't comment on what others have mentioned, but the Light Brigade's charge lasted several minutes, perhaps even 20 minutes in total before they were back to own lines (at which point one must assume the direct losses were finished). During that time they lost 156 dead of about 670 men, and a further 122 wounded, and a total of 335 horses lost. While heavy losses, they were taken over time, were not clearly obvious, and were never specifically deadly to the individual. Basically when humans or animals are faced with generous statistics, they take it. Here they were presented with worse than good statistics per attack (shot), and so it accumulated. That is quite a bit different from the certainty of death when facing a wall of spears, even if the end result is the same.

[Ariamanesh]

Let me know if you like my idea, guys. One thing that people should think about is; when a cavalry unit is super-determined to charge a spear unit without backing down, they will smack into those spears and the first line of horses will be taken out of the fight a lot of the time but I think the dead bodies of the affected horses should fall into the first line of those spear troops injuring and even killing them too. Not only is this realistic, but it would also balance things out a little bit and stop spear/phalanx troops from constantly dominating. Sure a spear wall can damage a cavalry unit the most, but when an animal weighing hundreds of pounds takes a spear to the chest, it will become dead weight and fall right into that spear formation, crushing that dude/s it lands on. Creative Assembly, I hope you like this idea :thumbsup2 Another reason for why I think you should implement this is because it's realistic and useless cavalry like the mercenary barbarian cavalry can finally serve a purpose :laughter: Mercenaries in my army have to work for their pay! For example, slam that useless cavalry into that spear wall causing chaos and making those units disorganised, leave them there until your heavy infantry can get in there with their swords. Very curious to hear the thoughts of others about this.

Well lets play in your way; Commander of parthian spah(army) to the grivpanvar commander(cataphracts):Go a head and charge through that phalanx unit. Parthian grivpanvar commander:But sir,this is ... Commander of parthian spah to the grivpanvar commander:Silent!,I know that would be kill most of our men but still can catch 1,2 man!!!!!!!!!!So do it as i command! Parthian grivpanvar commander:Yes sir,then the grivpanvars did charging into the phalanxes and all of em were killed. At the the end of battle when the commander of parthians were captured by phalanxes; Phalanx unit to parthian commander:Do you know what your officer wanted to say you? He wants to say you; "THIS IS MADNESS"

[koovie]

Let me know if you like my idea, guys. One thing that people should think about is; when a cavalry unit is super-determined to charge a spear unit without backing down, they will smack into those spears and the first line of horses will be taken out of the fight a lot of the time but I think the dead bodies of the affected horses should fall into the first line of those spear troops injuring and even killing them too. Not only is this realistic, but it would also balance things out a little bit and stop spear/phalanx troops from constantly dominating. Sure a spear wall can damage a cavalry unit the most, but when an animal weighing hundreds of pounds takes a spear to the chest, it will become dead weight and fall right into that spear formation, crushing that dude/s it lands on. Creative Assembly, I hope you like this idea Another reason for why I think you should implement this is because it's realistic and useless cavalry like the mercenary barbarian cavalry can finally serve a purpose Mercenaries in my army have to work for their pay! For example, slam that useless cavalry into that spear wall causing chaos and making those units disorganised, leave them there until your heavy infantry can get in there with their swords. Very curious to hear the thoughts of others about this.

That would be too difficult for the engine and would require a lot of resources which most PCs dont have. We can expect such things in upcoming TW titles but no in Rome II.

[Yayattasa]

That would be too difficult for the engine and would require a lot of resources which most PCs dont have. We can expect such things in upcoming TW titles but no in Rome II.

This is the lamest excuse ever for this discussion. Can't see how it applies given this particular case.

[Yamabushi]

If your cavalry keep dying to spearmen, your using them in the completely wrong way.

[HusKatten]

It would probably not even create balance in the game. Spears are countered by swords and phalanx is countered with mobility, harassments and flanking. Cavalry would be to strong if they could even beat their own counters, which would be spear units.

[Ichon]

It would probably not even create balance in the game. Spears are countered by swords and phalanx is countered with mobility, harassments and flanking. Cavalry would be to strong if they could even beat their own counters, which would be spear units.

Cavalry are usually the best counter for other cavalry. Spear countering cavalry is maybe something when braced in formation but otherwise it doesn't seem very valid. Spear give infantryman a bit more reach than a sword or other short weapon but infantry best defense is always swarming less numerous cavalry which can't watch all directions at once. Of course cavalry can much more easily concentrate in force on 1 section of enemy and achieve nearly equal numbers and thus infantry require support of other cavalry, terrain, or some light missile units which can ward off unarmored cavalry.

[Kenios]

You'd realize even the AI is smart enough to move their cavalry around to hit the spears at the side. In fact, the AI is pretty good at maneuvering their horses around if you try to intercept them while they are swinging around to your side.

[EmperorBatman999]

What was wrong with the way horses stopped and bucked their riders off charging into an NTW square?

[Dan113112]

Horses in the age of gunpowder would probably be trained to not panic when firearms and cannon went off. The horses also don't see the visible danger of bullets and bombs while humans do. Horses wouldn't charge a bunch of spears/pikes because the horses would either rear or change course. I imagine that most cavalry contacts with a spear formation were when the formations was in disarray or the horses were going too fast to stop completely and sort of slid into the spears/pikes.

[DogSoldierSPQR]

No guys, you don't get what I'm trying to say. It's not about whether the horse would charge or not. Regardless of whether the first line of horses would be killed or not, they will still break that spear formation and the cohesion of that spear unit. It's not an inefficient use of cavalry if you're using light cavalry to do this. There are more horses in a light cavalry unit and also the light cavalry units don't fight all too well against any type of enemy, so having them sacrifice a lot of their dudes to break a phalanx for your infantry to burst in safely is a very good tactic. Would you rather my idea, or having to waste hundreds of your men trying to fight past a spear unit locking down an entire street? If I were a general in real life, I'd have used this tactic at crucial times in a battle, because as long as you can quickly get infantry in there, it would never fail.

[Manu La Canette]

No guys, you don't get what I'm trying to say. It's not about whether the horse would charge or not. Regardless of whether the first line of horses would be killed or not, they will still break that spear formation and the cohesion of that spear unit. It's not an inefficient use of cavalry if you're using light cavalry to do this. There are more horses in a light cavalry unit and also the light cavalry units don't fight all too well against any type of enemy, so having them sacrifice a lot of their dudes to break a phalanx for your infantry to burst in safely is a very good tactic. Would you rather my idea, or having to waste hundreds of your men trying to fight past a spear unit locking down an entire street? If I were a general in real life, I'd have used this tactic at crucial times in a battle, because as long as you can quickly get infantry in there, it would never fail.

You might be right talking about Medieval Heavy Cavalry, and yet after 12th century knights used to get crushed by spears militias (Battle of Oberhausbergern near Strassburg, 1262 AD): a force of 3000 militias pikemen from the city defeated the knightly army of the Bishop (5000 heavy footmen and 300 noble knights that comited suicide charging the militia formation). So, during Antiquity, charging pikes with a cavalry unit of front is definitely not a good idea

One my former Medieval History teacher told us the tactical ratio between a heavy knight and a footman during 11-13th centuries was around 1 for 100. Basically, without any cohesive formation, you had to line 100 footmen to balance the tactical advantage of 1 single knight. The calculation took count of the specificity of those centuries, when the professional companies of foot did not exist or were really rare: then, the knights was the only military force of Western Europe being in a constant training for battle. Basically the 'experts of war'.

My point here is that gathering into cohesive pike formations for the infantry is not just a nice idea, it's a matter of survival on the battlefield against heavy cavalry.

[Petroniu]

Let me know if you like my idea, guys. One thing that people should think about is; when a cavalry unit is super-determined to charge a spear unit without backing down, they will smack into those spears and the first line of horses will be taken out of the fight a lot of the time but I think the dead bodies of the affected horses should fall into the first line of those spear troops injuring and even killing them too. Not only is this realistic, but it would also balance things out a little bit and stop spear/phalanx troops from constantly dominating. Sure a spear wall can damage a cavalry unit the most, but when an animal weighing hundreds of pounds takes a spear to the chest, it will become dead weight and fall right into that spear formation, crushing that dude/s it lands on. Creative Assembly, I hope you like this idea Another reason for why I think you should implement this is because it's realistic and useless cavalry like the mercenary barbarian cavalry can finally serve a purpose Mercenaries in my army have to work for their pay! For example, slam that useless cavalry into that spear wall causing chaos and making those units disorganised, leave them there until your heavy infantry can get in there with their swords. Very curious to hear the thoughts of others about this.

CA said that now units will have mass = that means that the momentum of the charge should be kept even if the rider and/or the horse dies and so the dead bodies should disrupt the enemy lines. Also, maybe this time if you make a pile of dead bodies in front of you your units will have to walk OVER them and not magically THROUGH them like in previous games. We will just have to wait and see. Maybe something like this will appear in the "soon" to be seen Teutoberg Forest battle video.

[LordInvictus]

Should be implemented for elephants. It was ridiculous in Medieval 2 seeing an elephant die and fall onto 15 men and they walked out from under it like nothing happened.

[Kenios]

I don't get the OP. You have infantry and cavalry, but you choose to send your cavalry right into the spearmen to get massacred, then your infantry into the supposedly disrupted enemy formation. This is what you call very good tactics? Wait, hang on, am I, like, the only person who plays Total War games? Hammer and anvil. Anyone heard of that?