Hattori, Legendary, No Loading/Quitting

[Paragon Badger]

Conditions; Legendary. No reloads. No ctrl+alt+deletes. Domination. 60 minute time limit. Drop-in battles when I'm in the mood for it. No mods.

Background: Perhaps more than any other faction, the Hattori are true underdogs from early game to late. They are handicapped by their increased upkeep. Most people seem to think the special ability that comes with this handicap a waste, but I disagree. It's an exceptional ability for nearly ALL of the Hattori units to have. You can't play the Hattori like any other clan. I know there's been a legendary walkthrough of them on this forum already, but I plan to maximize every capability of the Hattori and tailor my play style both to their strengths and thematic elements. This playthrough should demonstrate how to fight three clans at once with an army as strong as only one of theirs. While my ultimate goal is to win, I will settle with survival. I will try to maintain diplomatic relations as much as possible, more out of necessity than honor. Constantly outnumbered, I'll need allies to fight in my stead. Even better than allies is when my rivals give me settlements without having to fight for them at all. Sneak attacks, ambushes, skirmishes, agents, diplomatic ploys. These are all the things I will NEED to do to win... or even survive. I'll try to make this entertaining and interesting, and will post about 4 or 8 turns at once... or whenever there's a sufficient cliffhanger. I'll write these out as I play and it's still a dangerous game, so wish me luck!

[Paragon Badger]

Turn 1;
So as the introduction states, we have only two real options unless we get military access to attack one of our neighbor's neighbors. While this would be a conservative move, Yamato and Otsu are both great cities and relatively easy to take. The Tsutsui have a powerful ally in the form of the Hatakeyama and Asai, realizing their vulnerability, will try to make an alliance as soon as possible- usually Sakai. Sakai. First thing's first, sabotage a building. Luckily, Chisato managed to torch Tsutsui's rice paddies and the Hattori are granted a discount on recruiting units. For the next next four turns, I'll be recruiting as many new soldiers as possible. For the Hattori, upkeep is more expensive. My general strategy will be to regularly combine experienced units after a battle while shoring them up with a constant influx of new soldiers. The Hattori will never be able to field the largest army in Japan, not without going bankrupt. This will require diplomacy and proficiency on the battlefield. Luckily, many of the Hattori's units come with Kisho training, the source of the higher upkeep to begin with. Much overlooked, I'll show you how potent it can be. Anyways, I'm going to need money. I offer an Alliance with the Shogun and 10 turns access for 1000 gold. I marry into the Tsutsui and offer some more access (plus 330 gold) to get them to break their alliance with Hatakeyama... I also invade Otsu.

Looking at Otsu, we have almost the same army at the start. A garrison of Samurai Retainers offsets Momochi's Yari Samurai. These are good odds. No one will come to their help and I've shut down their sole means of production as I recruit more Ashigaru every turn. Yasunaga provides a little extra support, but mostly it's because he needs some battlefield experience. For now, I'll continue the siege. End turn.



Turn 2
Asai HAS to attack me or I'll just wait him out. Asai Hisamasa rallies forth and here's where I will demonstrate the amazing potential of Kisho training. Because technically I am the defender, Asai Hisamasa will make a beeline for my general. I set my troops in place to flank them en route. Hisamasa and Yasunaga, being my only form of cavalry, will deal the killing blow by charging into their rear. As expected, he advanced forward just into range of my archers who have been set NOT to fire at will. For some reason, perhaps sensing something was up, he only sent one group of Yari Ashigaru to attack Momochi. This worked out quite well. I let my archers fire and then had both my Ashigaru and my Yari Samurai charge into his flank. My melee forces now outnumbered him 3 to 2, and one of those being the easily flankable Samurai Retainers. At about this time, Yasunaga had arrived inbetween the ambush and the lone advance Ashigaru that Momochi was keeping his distance from. Together, the two generals attacked the rear of the melee, almost instantly routing the enemy. Hisamasa retreated with two of his bodyguards and by the time the advance Ashigaru returned to their comrades, they were the only unit left... who promptly routed after my entire army turned around to charge. Asai Hisamasa and his two bodyguards were the sole survivors. Now, because he is a general this means that he will return back to the castle and the siege will go on as if nothing ever happened. The garrison of Samurai Retainers will NOT regenerate. I can press the attack or more or less demand everything he owns for vassalage. At this point, he'll give me infinite access, 2000 gold, vassalage, alliance, and trade. However, I want Otsu for myself... The second battle of turn 2 was my attack on the castle proper. Granting him a warrior's death, I had Momochi Taketoshi attack the castle himself. After losing the remainder of his bodyguard, Asai Hisamasa beheaded two of my men before he was crushed to death by his mortally wounded steed. Taketoshi got an experience point.

Total losses, 173. Total kills; 614.

Now with Otsu, I immediately grant access to my lands to my new neighbors. In return, I collect a total sum of 8000 gold. I lower taxes to keep newly-invaded Otsu happy and then max out recruiting ques in both provinces. I start building as much as I can because my upkeep will quickly outgrow my revenues otherwise. End turn.

Turn 3
The Ikko Ikki declare war on me. Already unfriendly with just about everyone in Japan, they've also betrayed my trust and taken advantage of our military access for gold trade. Fine. Surprisingly, Sakai also declares war on me. This could be problematic... Two armies intrude into my territory east of Biwa Lake. I am a bit concerned, and send Chisato to assassinate the Ikko Ikki monk accompanying the army but I was dumb and forgot that he can't go around the Sakai army. He takes the long route there and won't be able to do anything this turn. They still should stop just short of Otsu, I hope.

[Paragon Badger]

Turn 4
They've arrived just shy of my gates, not yet laying seige. Because I've been recruiting this whole time, I have about the same numbers as their combined armies. If I attack them, they'll mutually support one another. Just out of curiosity, I sue for peace with Sakai. They will accept vassalage without even a fight. I won't. I sally forth and in a night attack catch the Sakai force by themselves. Again I deploy my units in the forests in front of and behind them. Unfortunately, because they tried to maintain formation the ambush was prematurely detected and my backstabbing detachment had to sprint across a field to get in melee. It still did the job and I won with a 2:1 kill ratio. The Sakai Daimyo fled with 9 of his retainers and I launched an attack against the Ikko Ikki in the same fashion. I botched the ambush (no fog, not much foliage) and thought it would be a fatal error but the flanking element remained undetected, and they ended up killing the Daimyo and sending his Commissioner of Warfare fleeing. Another 2:1 kill ratio. I hunted down the remainder of the Sakai and Ikko Ikki forces in my territory and exterminated them. Unfortunately Sakai was broke, but I accepted their vassalage anyways. They agreed to stop trading with the Ikko Ikki, an alliance, infinite access, ect ect. I extend my access contracts with the Shogun, Kitabatake, and Saito. The first because they have enough gold to give me 4000, the latter two for measly amounts because I don't think they'll last another turn or so.

Turn 5
Oda declares war on me. I was right, Nobuhide wiped out Saito but Kitabatake was also wiped out by Tsutsui, who is at war with Oda because Kitabatake's alliance with them. Oda now foolishly faces the Imagawa, Tsutsui, and Hattori on three fronts. I'm not too concerned. I send Momochi Taketoshi north to the Otsu/Echizen border to prepare an attack on the Ikko Ikki. Yasunaga follows and I leave Otsu with a skeleton garrison as I move my forces north. I would have tried to get some gold out of Oda Nobuhide by offering military access but he declared war on me seemingly as soon as we met. Just to keep the Ikko Ikki down, I assassinate one of their generals. Echizen is protected by three Ashigaru.

Turn 6
Crap. Ikko Ikki rebounded fast. They now have a decent army standing between Momichi Taketoshi and Echizen. Yasunaga's force can't reach him in time to reinforce. Echizen is empty and if I grab it I can defend it. I detach Yasunaga from his army and take on the Ikko Ikki forces on the round. The thing about the Ikko Ikki is that they might have a lot of troops... but morale shocks are devastating to them. I tried to sabotage them, preventing a retreat or whatnot but it failed. Luckily this army doesn't have a general, making a rout the way to go.

[Paragon Badger]

Turn 1;
So as the introduction states, we have only two real options unless we get military access to attack one of our neighbor's neighbors. While this would be a conservative move, Yamato and Otsu are both great cities and relatively easy to take. The Tsutsui have a powerful ally in the form of the Hatakeyama and Asai, realizing their vulnerability, will try to make an alliance as soon as possible- usually Sakai. Sakai. First thing's first, sabotage a building. Luckily, Chisato managed to torch Tsutsui's rice paddies and the Hattori are granted a discount on recruiting units. For the next next four turns, I'll be recruiting as many new soldiers as possible. For the Hattori, upkeep is more expensive. My general strategy will be to regularly combine experienced units after a battle while shoring them up with a constant influx of new soldiers. The Hattori will never be able to field the largest army in Japan, not without going bankrupt. This will require diplomacy and proficiency on the battlefield. Luckily, many of the Hattori's units come with Kisho training, the source of the higher upkeep to begin with. Much overlooked, I'll show you how potent it can be. Anyways, I'm going to need money. I offer an Alliance with the Shogun and 10 turns access for 1000 gold. I marry into the Tsutsui and offer some more access (plus 330 gold) to get them to break their alliance with Hatakeyama... I also invade Otsu.

Looking at Otsu, we have almost the same army at the start. A garrison of Samurai Retainers offsets Momochi's Yari Samurai. These are good odds. No one will come to their help and I've shut down their sole means of production as I recruit more Ashigaru every turn. Yasunaga provides a little extra support, but mostly it's because he needs some battlefield experience. For now, I'll continue the siege. End turn.



Turn 2
Asai HAS to attack me or I'll just wait him out. Asai Hisamasa rallies forth and here's where I will demonstrate the amazing potential of Kisho training. Because technically I am the defender, Asai Hisamasa will make a beeline for my general. I set my troops in place to flank them en route. Hisamasa and Yasunaga, being my only form of cavalry, will deal the killing blow by charging into their rear. As expected, he advanced forward just into range of my archers who have been set NOT to fire at will. For some reason, perhaps sensing something was up, he only sent one group of Yari Ashigaru to attack Momochi. This worked out quite well. I let my archers fire and then had both my Ashigaru and my Yari Samurai charge into his flank. My melee forces now outnumbered him 3 to 2, and one of those being the easily flankable Samurai Retainers. At about this time, Yasunaga had arrived inbetween the ambush and the lone advance Ashigaru that Momochi was keeping his distance from. Together, the two generals attacked the rear of the melee, almost instantly routing the enemy. Hisamasa retreated with two of his bodyguards and by the time the advance Ashigaru returned to their comrades, they were the only unit left... who promptly routed after my entire army turned around to charge. Asai Hisamasa and his two bodyguards were the sole survivors. Now, because he is a general this means that he will return back to the castle and the siege will go on as if nothing ever happened. The garrison of Samurai Retainers will NOT regenerate. I can press the attack or more or less demand everything he owns for vassalage. At this point, he'll give me infinite access, 2000 gold, vassalage, alliance, and trade. However, I want Otsu for myself... The second battle of turn 2 was my attack on the castle proper. Granting him a warrior's death, I had Momochi Taketoshi attack the castle himself. After losing the remainder of his bodyguard, Asai Hisamasa beheaded two of my men before he was crushed to death by his mortally wounded steed. Taketoshi got an experience point.

Total losses, 173. Total kills; 614.

Now with Otsu, I immediately grant access to my lands to my new neighbors. In return, I collect a total sum of 8000 gold. I lower taxes to keep newly-invaded Otsu happy and then max out recruiting ques in both provinces. I start building as much as I can because my upkeep will quickly outgrow my revenues otherwise. End turn.

Turn 3
The Ikko Ikki declare war on me. Already unfriendly with just about everyone in Japan, they've also betrayed my trust and taken advantage of our military access for gold trade. Fine. Surprisingly, Sakai also declares war on me. This could be problematic... Two armies intrude into my territory east of Biwa Lake. I am a bit concerned, and send Chisato to assassinate the Ikko Ikki monk accompanying the army but I was dumb and forgot that he can't go around the Sakai army. He takes the long route there and won't be able to do anything this turn. They still should stop just short of Otsu, I hope.

[Paragon Badger]

Again the terrain wasn't on my side, they were uphill and no forests nearby. Just one, barely enough room to put my Yari Samurai in. Note how close they are on the left side of this image. They camped out there while my main force duked it out. We exchanged volleys a few times, but the Ikko Ikki's more accurate and numerous archers forced my hand. I attacked, roughly 1:1 coverage. My Yari Samurai came out of hiding and flanked them, cutting through some bowmen. It was looking bad but I send Yasunaga and Taketoshi on each side of the melee. They whirled around and risking getting crushed by the reserve loan sword unit in back... charged the Yari spearmen in the back of their formation. Simultaneously, it was enough to start a chain reaction and they routed. Ended that battle with a 3:1 kill ratio. A bow Ashigaru unit got away and hid in Echizen castle. I don't have enough movement to follow through and unfortunately Yasunaga by his lonesome has to beseige the place. He's backed up by Momochi Taketoshi, but its going to be a 2v2 battle. I was hoping to seize Echizen this turn but I might have made a fatal mistake. I regret annihilating Sakai now... they probably could have backed me up. I recruit a ninja named Sadasuke. He's a straight-up assassin. Now as long as Oda doesn't muster up some rapid force to take Otsu...

Oh, as an aside- when things get dire, do not be afraid to tell your archers to go engage in melee with the rest of them, especially if your troops are wavering. The fresh bodies can do wonders for holding the line.

Turn 7
Spectacularly, Ikko Ikki decides not to attack. Oda's forces are ominous, though... I reinforce Yasunaga with all my troops and attack Echizen immediately. It is a resounding victory. His general is dead and the city is mine. Hatakeyama is at war with the feeble Ikko Ikki, and I have a feeling their remaining city will soon fall. I make a vassal out of them. No money or even access, but the north is relatively secure- my land now guarded on each side by vanquished enemies. I have become noted by the Imperial court. My only enemy is now Oda, who has lost a province presumably to Imagawa. Nobuhide has a startling presence in Mino. I have to pacify Echizen before I can move south, it's my hope that he's too busy dealing with Imagawa and Tsutsui to try and take Otsu.

[MJWilliams]

Great stuff mate, keep it up

Call me cynical of Shogun 2's CAI, but I foresee Oda abandoning Mino and marching on Omi in a blind berserk charge, hell-bent on attacking you at all costs even if it means vanishing into thin air outside of their final province's borders

[DeMolay]

Great stuff mate, keep it up
Call me cynical of Shogun 2's CAI, but I foresee Oda abandoning Mino and marching on Omi in a blind berserk charge, hell-bent on attacking you at all costs even if it means vanishing into thin air outside of their final province's borders

Wouldn't suprise me either since they tend to focus on the human as a priority and Omi is so coveted by the AI usually

Very nice guide Paragon , keep it up !

I liked how you took advantage of kisho training at turn 2 , it's also interesting that you take Omi first , i tend to try to avoid facing Ikko/Oda immediately and rather rush yamato-kii-kawachi-settsu asap whilst garrisoning Iga and keeping 3 units ambushed on the border one turn away from assaulting Omi in case Ikko attacks Iga , but your strategy works well too , thanks for sharing your experience

[jadesympathiser]

They shoudl really teach their Generals even the very BASICS of kisho

[Incarnal]

Thanks for doing this! I've been considering a run on Hattori again, but I've never quite been able to make their deployment options work as well for me as I think they will. I see you're using them with great effect!