I have no idea how to beat the Mongols

[jackbush]

I know, I know, this topic has been discussed all over the place. But I've just given up on a H/H M2TW vanilla game playing as Egypt for the first time. I knew the Mongols were coming in 1214 and I knew it would be somewhere over near Baghdad. I tried to create as strong a bunch of armies as possible while still building my cities to give me the money to support all those troops. I don't know what else I could do. I got slaughtered. They seem able to cross the rivers without worrying about bridges. I placed my stacks at the bridges but somehow they came around them. I don't know, I just don't know....

[john duca]

gunpowder...and don't fight them on the field..fight them at siege

[jackbush]

Can you elaborate on fighting at siege, please? I can only have so many troops inside my besieged city, right? So do I post another stack or two behind the city?

[Aymer de Valence]

A multi-layered box formation consisting of spearmen at a gate beats anything.

I do hope this is eligible enough:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Strongest soldiers at the front, weakest in the second rows. Typical shieldwall (or....spearwall ). Second row could include swords too, as the AI usually piles their whole army through the gates, not just horses Silly AI

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

That battle was against the Mongols too, as it happens.....

The result;

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[T-reg]

A multi-layered box formation consisting of spearmen at a gate beats anything.

I do hope this is eligible enough:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Strongest soldiers at the front, weakest in the second rows. Typical shieldwall (or....spearwall ). Second row could include swords too, as the AI usually piles their whole army through the gates, not just horses Silly AI

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

That battle was against the Mongols too, as it happens.....

The result;

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Thanks for the in .

[Highlander of Scotland]

i scared the mongols as egypt. I built up 10 full stacks to crush em and what to they do they move away from me and up into russia, i took a shortcut by boats in the black sea and cut them off. The mongols did not escape.....

[jackbush]

Aethelstan, I like the looks of this. How do you have so many spearmen in one unit: 147? And a general with a bodyguard of 57? Is that a mod, or vanilla? In any event, thanks for this: looks good!

[Posantio of Umbria]

You can change the number of troops per unit in the "Game Options" menu (main menu-> options-> game options), each level of unit size adds roughly 50% to the number of men per unit.
sizes are
small (50 spears)
normal (75 spears)
large (115 spears iirc)
huge (150 spears)

I don't think it works with old saves so you might want to start a new campaign... it might be possible with an old save, but any pre-existing units will remain at the previous unit size.

[Maklodes]

You can change the number of troops per unit in the "Game Options" menu (main menu-> options-> game options), each level of unit size adds roughly 50% to the number of men per unit.
sizes are
small (50 spears)
normal (75 spears)
large (115 spears iirc)
huge (150 spears)

I don't think it works with old saves so you might want to start a new campaign... it might be possible with an old save, but any pre-existing units will remain at the previous unit size.

For the record, the numbers for most spear units are 60 (small), 75 (normal), 112 (large), and 150 (huge).

All units are given a small size in EDU. Larger sizes seem to be multiples of this (normal = 1.25, large = 1.875, huge = 2.5)

IMHO, they probably should have used a multiple of 8 as a base size for most spear units, like 64, rather than 60, since 112 (rounded down from 112.5) is a slightly weird number of troops, but oh well.

[Aymer de Valence]

Aethelstan, I like the looks of this. How do you have so many spearmen in one unit: 147? And a general with a bodyguard of 57? Is that a mod, or vanilla? In any event, thanks for this: looks good!

Yep, unit sizes My general was also my faction heir which gives him a few more bodyguards any way.

[Geoffrey of Villehardouin]

Mongols very sensibly will not attack defended cities in Kingdoms Crusades. They also arrive with 7 stacks. It is much more interesting to fight against them in field battles, the terrain that suits them, especially while they have both numerical superiority and better quality, higher experience units.

[SonofaBooyah]

Mongols very sensibly will not attack defended cities in Kingdoms Crusades. They also arrive with 7 stacks. It is much more interesting to fight against them in field battles, the terrain that suits them, especially while they have both numerical superiority and better quality, higher experience units.

Interesting? I think suicidal is the word.

[Sitalkes]

It's not enough to build up your armies. You need to build lookout towers (and maybe forts to house your troops to stop them rebelling and slow down the Mongols) near the expected invasion points and river crossings. You also have to build up your generals so they can beat the high dread Mongol Generals - you need Generals with lots of stars, good fighting attributes, and lots of chivalry (or lots of dread). You also should build up your assassins and spies so you know where the Mongols are and can kill off their generals - kill enough Mongol generals and you kill off that wave of Mongols.

[PrestigeX]

Egypt is one of the better factions to fight Mongols with. Your bread and butter will be the Mamluk Archers -- then you fill out with Mamluks / Royal Mamluks -- add some Arab Cavalry to the mix when you cannot recruit other cav.

Get Camel Archer mercs, and Kwhazerm mercs, and Armenian Cav mercs -- the camels especially - what you do is treat them as if they're 'foot archers' who are a bit more mobile - keep them in a loose formation "on Top" of your foot archers.

You want the army to look like this -- IF you want to fight them in the field, which is the greatest challenge and you don't end up on the defensive.. Siege defense is good and all, but you run the risk of...
Mongols besieging all your best settlements, and typically just sitting there turn after turn - and you can't do anything in those settlements / lose lot of money.

1 - F.M.
4 - Mamluk / Royal Mamluk
2 - Arab Cav, Camel Archer Mercs, Kwahzerm , or Armenian Cav
6-8 - Mamluk Archers
4 - Desert Archers
2 - Saracen Militia

That's my typical army to fight Mongols -- as other 'easterners' -- the same idea, except with Russia I load up on tons of Foot Dvor and nix any other form of infantry.
The only times I really lose is when it's 2 mongol stacks vs. 1 of mine -- thats the tricky part, is trying to lure the mongol stacks out of the group but it's easy enough just takes a bit -- actually "The Dance" of it all, keeps them from getting at your settlements as quickly I find.

I really find that basing an army on the skill set of the Mongols -- Tons of Cav, Tons of Arrow-power-- and simply being a better tactician with it, is the way to go.

[Sitalkes]

Egypt is one of the better factions to fight Mongols with.....I really find that basing an army on the skill set of the Mongols -- Tons of Cav, Tons of Arrow-power-- and simply being a better tactician with it, is the way to go.

I agree, the Egyptians do have good Mongol antidotes and it is more fun to fight them in the open but don't forget the Mongols often bring artillery, so you should have some, too. You also need better archers than desert archers if possible, and can also beat Mongols with an army consisting mainly of spearmen as their infantry isn't that good and the cavalry can't beat the spearmen unless they surround them or shoot them up (and they tend to prefer to charge rather than shoot).

[Monsieur Alphonse]

I agree with Prestige X. But I use all cavalry armies. Infantry is just standing in the way of the true warriors. You need four to five stacks, each consisting of five heavy cavalry and the rest horse archers. For heavy cavalry you can use generals. Once the Mongols appear attack them when they have concentrated their stacks. Make sure that you position your stacks so they all participate in the battle. Let the computer controll the reinforcments and let the carnage begin. If your computer can handle it you wil have 8 or 9 stacks on the battle field. Now your task is to kill the enemy generals. Once they are dead the Mongols are defeated. Retrain your stacks and wait a couple of turnes for the next wave. There is one downside tot this tactic. Once you have mastered the art of all cavarly warfare the Mongols become a training excersize and no longer a threat. But is is really fun to watch 10,000 men on the battlefield.

[Highlander of Scotland]

or play as scotland for a lol. Charge out and form your pikes into square formations..........
Then charge your highlanders downs the hill........

[Aymer de Valence]

Yeah, a full stack army including horse archers from a faction like Russia or Egypt versus a full stack Mongol army in the open field is EPIC. The battle fills the whole battlefield

[Maklodes]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned naffatun. They're probably not the best if you take the "Ain Jalut" approach of beating the Mongols in the field with cavalry, but if you like siege defense, they should be pretty good at inflicting massive casualties on dense concentrations of Mongol troops (or other enemies, whether Mongols, Crusaders, Turks, Byzantines, or whoever gives you trouble).

[PrestigeX]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned naffatun.

They are one of the best units in the game, but they require so much micro-management - I think players 'forget' about javelin / naffatuns because they want them to work like this...

Enemy Advancing... Throwers at the front -- lob a volley or two, run to the rear safely --- enemy smash into your lines.

What ends up happening? Enemy Advancing... Throwers to the front -- throwers NOT throwing just stuck in the animation of throwing --- okay, get them to safety- NOPE enemy smashes into your throwers.


The real trick is to keep the thrower units at the rear to begin with - took me a while to figure it out, but I must Thank the youtube vids of "AcoDaGr8". Then you use them to throw into the sides, over your own men , or wtever you can get them to do once the battle has really begun.