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    Default Iran shelling Iraq

    Kurds flee homes as Iran shells Iraq's northern frontier

    Kurds flee homes as Iran shells Iraq's northern frontier

    Michael Howard in Qandil Mountain
    Friday August 18, 2006
    The Guardian


    Kurdish PKK fighters in northern Iraq. Photograph: Michael Howard



    Turkey and Iran have dispatched tanks, artillery and thousands of troops to their frontiers with Iraq during the past few weeks in what appears to be a coordinated effort to disrupt the activities of Kurdish rebel bases.
    Scores of Kurds have fled their homes in the northern frontier region after four days of shelling by the Iranian army. Local officials said Turkey had also fired a number of shells into Iraqi territory.

    Some displaced families have pitched tents in the valleys behind Qandil Mountain, which straddles Iraq's rugged borders with Turkey and Iran. They told the Guardian yesterday that at least six villages had been abandoned and one person had died following a sustained artillery barrage by Iranian forces that appeared designed to flush out guerrillas linked to the Kurdistan Workers Party (PKK), who have hideouts in Iraq.

    Although fighting between Turkish security forces and PKK militants is nowhere near the scale of the 1980s and 90s - which accounted for the loss of more than 30,000 mostly Turkish Kurdish lives- at least 15 Turkish police officers have died in clashes. The PKK's sister party in Iran, the Kurdistan Free Life Party (Pejak), has stepped up activities against security targets in Kurdish regions. Yesterday, Kurdish media said eight Iranian troops were killed.

    Rostam Judi, a PKK leader, claimed yesterday that no operations against Turkey or Iran were being launched from Iraqi territory. "We have fighters across south-eastern Turkey. Our presence in Iraq is purely for political work."

    Frustrated by the reluctance of the US and the government in Baghdad to crack down on the PKK bases inside Iraq, Turkish generals have hinted they are considering a large-scale military operation across the border. They are said to be sharing intelligence about Kurdish rebel movements with their Iranian counterparts.

    "We would not hesitate to take every kind of measures when our security is at stake," Abdullah Gul, the Turkish foreign minister, said last week.

    There has been sporadic shelling of the region since May but officials worry that concerted military action against PKK bases in Iraq could alienate Iraqi Kurds and destabilise their self-rule region, one of few post-invasion success stories. Some analysts say Ankara and Tehran may be trying to pressure Iraq's Kurds, afraid that their de facto independent region would encourage their own Kurdish population.

    Khaled Salih, the spokesman for the Kurdistan Regional Government in Irbil, said: "We condemn the shelling and urge the Iraqi government to demand the neighbours to respect our sovereignty."

    Despite its support base in Turkey's impoverished south-east, the PKK is regarded by Ankara, Washington and the EU as a terrorist organisation. Mr Judi said the PKK was seeking a peaceful and democratic solution to the Kurdish issue in Turkey, and would welcome mediation from the US or Iraq's Kurdish leaders.

    Last week, the Iraqi government said it had closed offices run by PKK sympathisers in Baghdad, and another office was shut by Kurdish authorities in Irbil.

    The US is also to appoint a special envoy to find a solution to the PKK problem, but that may not be enough. Ilnur Chevik, editor of the New Anatolian newspaper in Ankara, said: "There is huge public pressure on the Turkish government to take action." But he doubted whether Turkish forces would mount a full-scale invasion."The build-up of troops is designed to say to the Americans and the Iraqis, the ball is in your court." Tehran was also taking advantage of the situation, he said, "to show Turkey that it was taking action against its shared enemy, while the US, Turkey's ally, has done nothing".

    Meanwhile those displaced wonder when they can resume a normal life. "We know that the PKK are around here," said Abdul-Latif Mohammed, who fled the village of Lowan with his family. "But they live in the mountains. So these bombs just hurt us poor farmers."

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  2. #2
    Biarchus
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    Default Re: Iran shelling Iraq

    Perfect! Yet another reason we will have available in our arsenal when the time comes to overthrow this harsh, unjust regime. Iran stands as an obstacle to peace, prosperity, and democracy in the middle east when it pulls stunts like this and funds Hezbollah. This rogue regime needs to be taught a hard lesson.

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    Bwaho's Avatar Puppeteer
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    Default Re: Iran shelling Iraq

    Turkey and Iran have dispatched tanks, artillery and thousands of troops to their frontiers with Iraq during the past few weeks in what appears to be a coordinated effort to disrupt the activities of Kurdish rebel bases.
    do you believe iran and turkey is helping you in the war on terror by fighting kurdish rebels?

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    Biarchus
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    Default Re: Iran shelling Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by Bwaho
    do you believe iran and turkey is helping you in the war on terror by fighting kurdish rebels?
    No, because based on the evidence mentioned in Rush'd first post where around 30,000 Turkish Kurds died, it's pretty clear that Turkey and Iran are engaging in covert genocide against the Kurds because they fear the nationalist aspirations of these people.

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    Bwaho's Avatar Puppeteer
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    Default Re: Iran shelling Iraq

    No, because based on the evidence mentioned in Rush'd first post where around 30,000 Turkish Kurds died, it's pretty clear that Turkey and Iran are engaging in covert genocide against the Kurds because they fear the nationalist aspirations of these people.
    can we deny that kurds have been involved in terrorist activities? if the answer is no then shouldn't the kurds be considered an enemy in the war on terror (the war where we declared war on all terrorist groups in the world)?.


    30,000 dead you say? over 30,000 civilians have died in iraq, but I don't hear you calling that a genocide.

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    Carach's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: Iran shelling Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by Bwaho
    can we deny that kurds have been involved in terrorist activities? if the answer is no then shouldn't the kurds be considered an enemy in the war on terror (the war where we declared war on all terrorist groups in the world)?.


    30,000 dead you say? over 30,000 civilians have died in iraq, but I don't hear you calling that a genocide.
    The "kurds are terrorists!" issue is however not so black and white..

    as for 30,000 civilians dead in iraq, thats genocide at the hands of the insurgency - blood that syria and iran (and the numerous terrorist groups and militias in general) have on their hands.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Iran shelling Iraq

    i still cant believe this news hasnt hit the BBC
    We all know the BBC is the most fair and balanced news agency in modern history

    over 30,000 civilians have died in iraq, but I don't hear you calling that a genocide.
    This is a case of Iraqis killing Iraqis for the most part and Shia killing Sunni. The situtation with the Kurds is quite different.
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    Carach's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: Iran shelling Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by Rush Limbaugh
    We all know the BBC is the most fair and balanced news agency in modern history
    im sure they are quite aware of it though..but it doesnt tie in with their interests.

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    Biarchus
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    Default Re: Iran shelling Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by Bwaho
    can we deny that kurds have been involved in terrorist activities? if the answer is no then shouldn't the kurds be considered an enemy in the war on terror (the war where we declared war on all terrorist groups in the world)?.


    30,000 dead you say? over 30,000 civilians have died in iraq, but I don't hear you calling that a genocide.
    That's because the Kurds are being systematically targeted by two organized governments, whereas (like Rush said) the Iraqis are killing themselves. I doubt all 30,000 of those Kurds were involved in the PKK.

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    JP226's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: Iran shelling Iraq

    it makes me want to bomb them back to the stone age. No matter how happy feely people try to tell you the world is, in reality might does make right. Hammer these fools.
    Sure I've been called a xenophobe, but the truth is Im not. I honestly feel that America is the best country and all other countries aren't as good. That used to be called patriotism.

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    Carach's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: Iran shelling Iraq

    i still cant believe this news hasnt hit the BBC, but its not the only significant issue they've missed in the middle east.

    i think people need to put pressure on turkey at least to stop...iran cant be negotiated with..but maybe coalition and kurd forces shuld start firing back on iran (thats probably what iran wants i think)

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    JP226's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: Iran shelling Iraq

    BBC is a buncha crap. I hate that news network. State news to the extreme. I always get a chuckle everytime a liberal calls them "fair."
    Sure I've been called a xenophobe, but the truth is Im not. I honestly feel that America is the best country and all other countries aren't as good. That used to be called patriotism.

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    Biarchus
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    Default Re: Iran shelling Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by JP226
    BBC is a buncha crap. I hate that news network. State news to the extreme. I always get a chuckle everytime a liberal calls them "fair."
    The more I hear of the BBC, the more it sounds like Air America. It is incredible how far liberal news media will twist the facts to suit their own puroposes and I think it's absolutely shameful.

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    Kscott's Avatar New and Improved!
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    Default Re: Iran shelling Iraq

    Kurdistan needs to rise up, and I think we need to support them. They are the worlds largest ethnicity without a country.

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    Tom Paine's Avatar Mr Common Sense
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    Default Re: Iran shelling Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by Kscott
    Kurdistan needs to rise up, and I think we need to support them. They are the worlds largest ethnicity without a country.
    So? Should ethnicities have countries? The problem with creating such a Kurdistan is how it might react to those who live within it who were formerly the oppressors of Kurdistan. That, and it simply creates yet another nation in a region with enough instability as it is.

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    Denny Crane!'s Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: Iran shelling Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by the Grim Squeaker
    So? Should ethnicities have countries? The problem with creating such a Kurdistan is how it might react to those who live within it who were formerly the oppressors of Kurdistan. That, and it simply creates yet another nation in a region with enough instability as it is.
    Is that not the way forward, so far it seems to me amalgamating ethnicities into large sovereign nations has been the cause of so many wars that devolution into small independant more efficient states might make more economic sense and a smore stable environment.

    So far we have had a fairly good show from the devolved eastern bloc states, with the instability having been caused by outside sources in most cases. While Uzbekistan is a little shaky on its human rights record so is the USA over the past century.

    The instability in the former states of yugoslavia was caused by ethnic tensions and now those states seem well on the road to recovery.

    Where else..... well you could lay the Rwanden Genocide at the feet of colonial influences by racially cataloging, drawing borders and forcing tribes together and inflaming old disputes (actually magnifying them really).

    So maybe the way forward is independence, why anyone in the west would want autonomy when we have virtually every freedom anyway I don't know but if the basques want it that badly political devolution does work.

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  17. #17

    Default Re: Iran shelling Iraq

    I had heard some reports that this was going to happen a few weeks ago, but the emphasis was on it coming from Turkey. The U.S. is kind of stuck on this one. The Kurds haven't been a problem for us, but they are for Turkey and Iran, and at least the one group mentioned is a recognized terrorist entity. You won't get me to defending Turkey's history with the Kurds, but we can't exactly side against a NATO ally with a terror entity just because the Kurds are not a problem for us at the moment. There aren't any attractive options on this one.
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    Casanova's Avatar Semisalis
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    Default Re: Iran shelling Iraq

    The Turks seriously hate the Kurds. When I was in Istanbul, all you ever saw on the news was stories about the Kurds and the terrible things they are doing. Even my friends there that are well educated Turks there regularly criticize the Kurds as being lazy, stupid, and criminal.

    I have a feeling this will be one of those ever lasting conflicts, much like the jews and palestinians. It is such a shame that these people cant see that no one will ever really win in these conflicts, and in the end there will just be a pile of dead bodies, for what?
    Last edited by Casanova; August 22, 2006 at 11:36 PM.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Iran shelling Iraq

    You people should keep in mind that the kurds have staged numerous terrorist attacks against both Turkey and Iran.
    This was simply a preemptive strike made by Turkey and Iran to destroy a terrorist organization. All dead civilians are collateral damage and ofcourse they did die for a greater good.

    There is a Global War On Terror going on after all.

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    Bwaho's Avatar Puppeteer
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    Default Re: Iran shelling Iraq

    You people should keep in mind that the kurds have staged numerous terrorist attacks against both Turkey and Iran.
    This was simply a preemptive strike made by Turkey and Iran to destroy a terrorist organization. All dead civilians are collateral damage and ofcourse they did die for a greater good.

    There is a Global War On Terror going on after all.
    yeah, this was my point... surely those who fight terrorism hasn't gone soft? you're not going to support these terrorists are you?

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